Later with Jools

[Frank Blank]

10 hours ago, silverfoxnik said:

And like you, my Dad said the same sort of things to me when I used to watch TOTP growing up in the 70s;  'he /she can't sing ', 'what is he wearing, - looks like a girl ', 'what an' effin racket' etc, etc.. And the more he disliked something, the more I liked it! 

Which is why I actually pay attention to this thread, when the moaners start moaning about an act I start listening exactly because they all sound like my Dad who moaned about Bowie, Roxy Music, Sparks in particular and M with Pop Muzik. Naturally he hated anything punk. What in particular set me off on this relationship with this thread was the negative reaction to The Good, The Bad & The Queen after their appearance on Jools Holland, I didn’t pay that much attention when they were on but all the negativity made me watch again, loved it. As far as I’m concerned all the ‘they can’t play/sing/ it’s a racket/lift music/noise’ grouchy Dad brigade can keep the moans coming, one of the better indicators of quality in my book.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Frank Blank

[DoubleOhStephan]

28 minutes ago, BreadBin said:

Pretty sure Iggy did the dancing in your pants thing long before FNM and the Chilli's were around. Just because someone has done something before doesn't preclude anyone else from doing it.

I didn't say they shouldn't do it, I was simply saying the reason it doesn't appeal to me is as I've seen it before. 

[steantval]

2 hours ago, BreadBin said:

Pretty sure Iggy did the dancing in your pants thing long before FNM and the Chilli's were around. Just because someone has done something before doesn't preclude anyone else from doing it. It's art, self expression and should be given the space and freedom to exist. The folks digging Slowthai have never heard of any of the pants wearing predecessors and wouldn't be interested if you tried to show them. That was 30 years ago and has no relevance to the youth of today.

The other side of the coin regarding your last sentence is a lot of the new stuff has no relevance to folks who were really into the music produced thirty years ago.

[skankdelvar]

2 hours ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

I was simply saying the reason it doesn't appeal to me is as I've seen it before. 

Mr DoubleOhStephen places his finger very much upon the core of the matter.

Back in the 70's when sundry outraged Dads exclaimed 'That's not music and what does he look like!' they were simply reacting to the fact that the music they were hearing was not the same as that which they believed to be music, i.e. the music of their youth, namely Big Band music like - I don't know, Pennsylvania 6-5000 or Moonlight Becomes You.

The impelling factor in our Dads' minds was the shocking difference between their music and ours. The impelling factor in ours is the shocking similarity.

Fast-forward 40 years and one beholds a popular music scene which resembles one of those re-enactment things where people dress up as Roundheads and Cavaliers. Or a Living History Museum where you give a big old copper penny to someone pretending to be a Victorian shopkeeper and they give you a quarter-pound of licorice.

Put it like this. If we'd been doing back in the 70's what they're doing now we'd all have been playing trombones and dressing in tuxedos like the f**king Glenn Miller Orchestra. That this situation pertains is testament to an utter failure of imagination and proof - were it needed - of the creative bankruptcy of contemporary popular music.

I don't blame the young people, of course. It's entirely the fault of:

* Record companies and their craven fear of financial loss, ditto media companies hawking shows like 'Later'
* A dilution of music criticism away from the underground and onto the Lifestyle pages of The Guardian
* Hand-wringing pinkos who have brought about a widespread cultural rejection of substance and alcohol abuse
* Helicopter parents who fear to point out their offsprings' abject shortcomings for fear of causing 'anxiety'

If the music scene is to revive itself its youthful practitioners must first learn to tell their elders to f**k off. Their next move should be to indulge in bacchanalian orgies of drink and drugs. Only then should they pick up an instrument and start composing.

The rest of us have our part to play too. Rather than continue to venerate the artists of our youth we should jeer them in the street and lob rotten eggs at them. Dibs on Paul Weller, the sad, irrelevant old codger.

Edited November 3, 2019 by skankdelvar

[Woodinblack]

4 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

The rest of us have our part to play too. Rather than continue to venerate the artists of our youth we should jeer them in the street and lob rotten eggs at them. Dibs on Paul Weller, the sad, irrelevant old codger.

I don't necessarily agree with all your points, but if we are raising a party to throw rotten eggs at Paul Weller, then I am definitely in!

[prowla]

2 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

Which is why I actually pay attention to this thread, when the moaners start moaning about an act I start listening exactly because they all sound like my Dad who moaned about Bowie, Roxy Music, Sparks in particular and M with Pop Muzik. Naturally he hated anything punk. What in particular set me off on this relationship with this thread was the negative reaction to The Good, The Bad & The Queen after their appearance on Jools Holland, I didn’t pay that much attention when they were on but all the negativity made me watch again, loved it. As far as I’m concerned all the ‘they can’t play/sing/ it’s a racket/lift music/noise’ grouchy Dad brigade can keep the moans coming, one of the better indicators of quality in my book.

I think all the acts were brilliant! 🙂

[prowla]

11 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I don't necessarily agree with all your points, but if we are raising a party to throw rotten eggs at Paul Weller, then I am definitely in!

Maybe we could throw jam instead?

[mikel]

8 minutes ago, prowla said:

Maybe we could throw jam instead?

Aye, he was good with the Jam but meh since then. The Jam were young and angry now he is going through the motions.

[skankdelvar]

8 minutes ago, mikel said:

now he is going through the motions

Given Mr Weller's state of advanced decrepitude, 'going through the motions' probably requires industrial quantities of Ex-Lax.

I know whereof I speak.

[BrunoBass]

1 hour ago, skankdelvar said:

Mr DoubleOhStephen places his finger very much upon the core of the matter.

Back in the 70's when sundry outraged Dads exclaimed 'That's not music and what does he look like!' they were simply reacting to the fact that the music they were hearing was not the same as that which they believed to be music, i.e. the music of their youth, namely Big Band music like - I don't know, Pennsylvania 6-5000 or Moonlight Becomes You.

The impelling factor in our Dads' minds was the shocking difference between their music and ours. The impelling factor in ours is the shocking similarity.

Fast-forward 40 years and one beholds a popular music scene which resembles one of those re-enactment things where people dress up as Roundheads and Cavaliers. Or a Living History Museum where you give a big old copper penny to someone pretending to be a Victorian shopkeeper and they give you a quarter-pound of licorice.

Put it like this. If we'd been doing back in the 70's what they're doing now we'd all have been playing trombones and dressing in tuxedos like the f**king Glenn Miller Orchestra. That this situation pertains is testament to an utter failure of imagination and proof - were it needed - of the creative bankruptcy of contemporary popular music.

I don't blame the young people, of course. It's entirely the fault of:

* Record companies and their craven fear of financial loss, ditto media companies hawking shows like 'Later'
* A dilution of music criticism away from the underground and onto the Lifestyle pages of The Guardian
* Hand-wringing pinkos who have brought about a widespread cultural rejection of substance and alcohol abuse
* Helicopter parents who fear to point out their offsprings' abject shortcomings for fear of causing 'anxiety'

If the music scene is to revive itself its youthful practitioners must first learn to tell their elders to f**k off. Their next move should be to indulge in bacchanalian orgies of drink and drugs. Only then should they pick up an instrument and start composing.

The rest of us have our part to play too. Rather than continue to venerate the artists of our youth we should jeer them in the street and lob rotten eggs at them. Dibs on Paul Weller, the sad, irrelevant old codger.

You have a point. What amazes me is how little social comment is made in mainstream music today, if any.
 

Brexit, knife crime, drug / gang violence, racism / immigration; nobody goes near such subjects outside of grime / punk. In the eighties Radio 1 and the charts were full of political pop, with major labels behind it too. 
 

Somehow the mainstream has lost interest in confronting the world around it. Apathy in the UK indeed...

[prowla]

5 minutes ago, BrunoBass said:

You have a point. What amazes me is how little social comment is made in mainstream music today, if any.
 

Brexit, knife crime, drug / gang violence, racism / immigration; nobody goes near such subjects outside of grime / punk. In the eighties Radio 1 and the charts were full of political pop, with major labels behind it too. 
 

Somehow the mainstream has lost interest in confronting the world around it. Apathy in the UK indeed...

Mainstream has always been pap.

Some of the rap stuff gets pretty edgy and who knows what the shouty metal bands are singing about?

But "official" music isn't as big as it was back in the 80s.

[Frank Blank]

8 minutes ago, BrunoBass said:

You have a point. What amazes me is how little social comment is made in mainstream music today, if any.
 

Brexit, knife crime, drug / gang violence, racism / immigration; nobody goes near such subjects outside of grime / punk. In the eighties Radio 1 and the charts were full of political pop, with major labels behind it too. 
 

Somehow the mainstream has lost interest in confronting the world around it. Apathy in the UK indeed...

This is because Sleaford Mods and Richard Dawson, between them, give all the social comment you need, while mainstream music has become (some might argue again) das opium des volkes.

[skankdelvar]

25 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

mainstream music has become (some might argue again) das opium des volkes.

That's a tasty bit of Weltanschauung there, Chief 

[Kiwi]

I don't know much about music, I just want something to Dad dance to.

Actually there's also the factor of IP lawsuits, economic efficiency and levels of accessibility to music making technology.

Lots more people are able to make music.  There is less demand for recordings from record companies as more routes to publishing have become available.  Record companies have streamlined their economic interests to reflect the reduction in demand for their product. 

Record companies also have better information on who is buying what and when.  Where before everyone worshipped at the altar of creativity and novelty as being the key to success, now it's looks a song that is crafted within certain parameters, a certain look to the lead singer, and a whole load of slick and persistent marketing.  Creativity doesn't matter that much to the record company's target demographic (which seems to have been tweenies for quite some time)...so one could argue why even consider record companies as part of the creative side of things any more?

Then add onto all of that the fact that song writers/artists are constantly under threat of being sued by anyone with a back catalogue and the remotest hope of establishing they had a significant influence over that song writer's process...which, arguably is impossible to avoid given the amount of back catalogue out there these days.  

Sure, these factors aren't going to stymie the most dedicated and persistent artist in itself but the business isn't as romantic and glamorous as it used to be.  It's a bit of a wet blanket.

Anyway, music today is shit.  It all went to pot in the mid 90's.

[skankdelvar]

2 hours ago, Kiwi said:

Anyway, music today is stinky poo. It all went to pot in the mid 90's.

I rather think you'll find that Dec 19th 1993 is the generally agreed date when popular music went completely to sh*t, this being the day when Mr Blobby went to #1 in the UK charts and stayed there for three weeks (leans over and pukes into wastebasket).

Were such a disaster not enough, the nails were driven remorselessly into pop's coffin when on May 29th of that year the single Love is All Around by Wet Wet Wet commenced a 15-week run at the top of the charts.

There was no coming back from this.

The End of Pop Music - Oil on canvas by Morgana Del Var R.A. (1935-2008)

 

[nige1968]

My 9-year-old listens to Parry Gripp. That is all.

(But he’s still into Cardiacs, bless him)

[LukeFRC]

8 hours ago, BrunoBass said:

You have a point. What amazes me is how little social comment is made in mainstream music today, if any.
 

Brexit, knife crime, drug / gang violence, racism / immigration; nobody goes near such subjects outside of grime / punk. In the eighties Radio 1 and the charts were full of political pop, with major labels behind it too. 
 

Somehow the mainstream has lost interest in confronting the world around it. Apathy in the UK indeed...

What do you think Elbow and Michael Kiwanuka we’re singing about? 

[dmccombe7]

All getting a bit involved and over-analysed.

I just didn't like it. Same as back in 80's i didn't like some songs but i did like the majority. 

No change for me here then. 

Is it possible that when you are younger with a more active imagination you tend to listen to the words more and read more into it than the writer meant. 

I'm thinking Floyd, Rush 2112 and even Bowie's 5 years kind of thing back in my day. Now i just like a good tune. Lyrics don't have as much influence as they used to.

Dave 

Edited November 4, 2019 by dmccombe7

[BrunoBass]

59 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

What do you think Elbow and Michael Kiwanuka we’re singing about? 

Where’s the anger? The frustration? I like both acts but it’s all a bit Radio 2. 
 

[BrunoBass]

9 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

...mainstream music has become (some might argue again) das opium des volkes.

And ever it was, at least there was an element of subversion in times gone by. That’s missing today.
 

[upside downer]

13 minutes ago, BrunoBass said:

Where’s the anger? The frustration?
 

In a lot of the replies on here, by the looks of it.

[drTStingray]

6 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

I rather think you'll find that Dec 19th 1993 is the generally agreed date when popular music went completely to sh*t, this being the day when Mr Blobby went to #1 in the UK charts and stayed there for three weeks (leans over and pukes into wastebasket).

Were such a disaster not enough, the nails were driven remorselessly into pop's coffin when on May 29th of that year the single Love is All Around by Wet Wet Wet commenced a 15-week run at the top of the charts.

There was no coming back from this.

The End of Pop Music - Oil on canvas by Morgana Del Var R.A. (1935-2008)

 

This is extremely well observed and articulated. The 3 Wets was definitely a low point - exacerbated by my then wife buying a copy of the album and playing it regularly 😬 I thought it was very insipid and amazingly the single was actually a welcome relief from the rest of it - the puke basket requiring emptying by that stage - it's predecessor, Everything I Do, I Do It For You by Bryan Adams appeared to stay in the charts for a good portion of the decade also and at number 1 for, well it seemed like months - both had similarities, being linked to the film industry I believe. 

But the main point I wanted to make is there are low points here there and everywhere - which cause people such trauma as to shut their ears to future output of any part of the diverse church that is music generally - Grandad by Clive Dunn was another example (I think the bass may have been played using flatwound strings on that studio output so some people may find my view that was a low point offensive - along with anyone under the age of 10 at the time - believe me, for the rest of us it was truly awful).

Everyone seems to have such low points - having once played in a tribute band to an olde British artiste and beat combo from the late 50s/early 60s, I was exposed to a whole plethora of people who had the view music died when the Beatles became famous - and if not then definitely at the end of the 60s. 

This forum seems to be populated by many people who don't understand that the Jools show is actually a sort of music magazine show - magazines being something one often skim reads and only focuses on certain bits that interest. The chance of everybody liking everything is nil - and if your musical taste results in music dying at some arbitrary point in the past - probably very little. I find some of the archive stuff from the show fantastic, like the very early performance of Amy Winehouse they showed a clip from recently. 

Last week's show was a bit meh for me - the one before with Mark Ronson far more interesting. And this is the way it always is, like reading a magazine. 

Now then this egging of Paul Weller - I'm very interested in this idea - could I make a suggestion this be in Surrey stockbroker belt perhaps at Hersham station, where we could, concurrently hear London being called on the station announcements - I'm sure someone could come up with some songs about such stuff - with apologies to all Clash and Mr Weller fans 😂👍

Edited November 4, 2019 by drTStingray

[Barking Spiders]

I don't 'moan' about today's music, simply because the majority of pop (in its broadest term) was shoite in the 60s, largely pants in the 70s, pretty much garbage in the 80s and since then it's morphed into a vast sea of inconsequential, empty nothingness.  I'm guessing everyone thinks that  99% of music they hear is gash but differ in their thinking which 1% is good.

[drTStingray]

I recall my dad being outraged by the Jimi Hendrix Experience playing Purple Haze on TOTP in 1967 - his objections:-

1) Hendrix was so shite he couldn't control his electric guitar - unlike Hank B Marvin

2) The drummer and bass player had mock Afro hair so they all matched

I did point out that Hank B's whammy bar and echo could have been considered by some purists in 1960 also to have been out of control 😏 stage clothes (indeed clothes generally) had gone a bit odd even by today's standards, by that time - afghan coats and beads being de rigeur. Flared trousers being made up from curtain material etc etc! 

Edited November 4, 2019 by drTStingray

[BreadBin]

2 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

What do you think Elbow and Michael Kiwanuka we’re singing about? 

Quite.

Also, taken from his Wikipedia page...

Tyron Kaymone Frampton (born 18 December 1994),[1] better known by his stage name slowthai (stylised in lowercase), is a British rapper from Northampton.[2] He rose to popularity in 2019 for his notoriously gritty and rough instrumentals and raw, politically charged lyrics, especially around Brexit and Theresa May’s tenure as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom

Maybe folks on here just aren't listening?