jwbassman Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Hi guys Just been browsing ebay and found [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=009&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=190135539820&rd=1&rd=1"]this[/url] - question is, would it be any good for a bass rig? Also what happens if you combine a valve preamp with a valve power amp - do you get double the valve tone? Any light shed on this much appreciated... Cheers John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 I emailed Mesa about this a while ago and they explained that it's technically possible - it just wouldn't be very powerful at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwbassman Posted July 28, 2007 Author Share Posted July 28, 2007 That was my concern - 20/20 doesn't seem much, but then valve amps are that much louder than SS, so I didn't completely discount it... Thanks for the info - looks like I won't be bothering with this one then... Cheers John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Yeah, I wouldn't if I were you. The best option for a bass valve power amp that I've seen is the discontinued Aguilar DB728. Looks mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwbassman Posted July 28, 2007 Author Share Posted July 28, 2007 I'll have a look into it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 Probably the only Mesa Boogie power amp worth using with bass is one of these: Not many around and they weigh a tonne but I use one as my hi-fi amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwbassman Posted July 29, 2007 Author Share Posted July 29, 2007 What would you suggest instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I'm not aware of any valve stereo poweramps being made these days. Was it stereo you were specifically looking for? The Strategy 400 was the only example of a stereo valve power amp I could actually find. I didn't discover until after I bought it, that it weighed about 30kg unracked! US Ebay is probably the most likely place you'll find one, but the shipping charges for anything other than surface shipping are likely to be horrific. The bloke I bought mine off had done the importing himself. Burman did a 2 piece, 100w 60's/70's valve powered PA called the powerpak which had a valve preamp capable of driving more than one valve power amp. You could get a couple of the power amps for relatively little money (maybe £250 each?) off Ebay but each will probably weigh the same as one Strategy 400. Same situation with an [url="http://www.aguilaramp.com/products_vintage_db728.htm"]400w Aguilar DB728[/url] too (and they'll be more expensive). Probably the most practical solution would be to get an Alembic F-1X preamp and a 1 unit Class D power amp like those made by powersoft, BK electronics or peavey perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxblood Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 (edited) Re. Stereo valve power amps, it might be worth watching eBay for the 100 Watt-per-channel version of the Marshall Series 9000 rackmount jobbies. There's a 50W per channel version, which is far more commonly seen, but I doubt it would have nearly enough power. Also, a word of warning: these Marshall 9000 amps are stereo only - i.e. NOT bridgeable. And, of course, they may not be suitable as they were designed for guitarists. Which brings me to the following.... On the subject of 'guitar' valve amps in general: As a rule, any powerful valve amp designed/marketed for guitar players should be treated with caution by bass players, because: 1) If it is aimed at the needs of the heavy metal guitarist, it will have been designed with very high-gain pre-amp stages which slip into distortion easily, and a tone stack that isn't really bass friendly. 2) The output transformer won't have been specified with accurate LF reproduction as a priority. Indeed, it may have been deliberately designed with a limited response in the LF range as a cheap way of avoiding 'motorboating' instability in a high-gain amp. 3) Likewise, the power supply may not be hefty enough to deliver clean power in the LF when you need it. You may get 'sag' - a form of compression which occurs when the power supply stage is unable to deliver enough current to 'track' the transients of your playing. This effect is most common in amps whose power supply uses valve rectification. Many guitar players like this effect, but is virtually useless to bassists as it robs all the attack from your notes. Of course, I'm speaking in very broad terms here. There are numerous honourable exceptions to the above caveats: Burman, Sound City and HiWatt come to mind for starters. In general, though, if you want to play safe, go for an amp that is either specifically designed for bass guitar or is of unassailable 'HiFi' quality (such as a highly respected brand of PA amplifier). If you must use a 'guitar' head, choose one that has a known track record as being OK for bass. Edited July 30, 2007 by Oxblood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwbassman Posted July 30, 2007 Author Share Posted July 30, 2007 Thanks for the info guys some good stuff here - completely new to value stuff so need all the help I can get... Not looking for a stereo setup in particluar, in actual fact it's probably not required at all... Have been looking into a valve pre (possibly a BBE BMax F or something similar) and ss power amp - ideally at 1u each to go into a 2u rack to keeps things neat and portable - but as always open to ideas from you guys with experience of such things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Don't forget to check out [b][url="http://www.davehallamps.co.uk/Products.html"]Dave Hall's stuff[/url][/b] as well. Lots of options. There is also [b][url="http://www.george-dennis.cz/pages/bassamps.htm"]George Dennis valve amps[/url][/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxblood Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 (edited) [quote name='TPJ' post='38852' date='Jul 30 2007, 11:20 AM']Don't forget to check out [b][url="http://www.davehallamps.co.uk/Products.html"]Dave Hall's stuff[/url][/b] as well. Lots of options. There is also [b][url="http://www.george-dennis.cz/pages/bassamps.htm"]George Dennis valve amps[/url][/b][/quote] Stone me! That George Dennis stuff looks tasty. Thanks for the link, TPJ. The Bassic Tube 200 Head is €1097, which works out to around £750. Dearer than a Traynor YBA200 but not bad! ADDED LATER: I've just looked at the user manual. Along with the usual Gain, Treble, Middle & Bass, the panel has knobs called "HEAT" and "BALLS". Shame, that: pretentious names and completely meaningless. The sort of nonsense guitarists like. Edited July 30, 2007 by Oxblood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 [quote name='Oxblood' post='38858' date='Jul 30 2007, 11:31 AM']Stone me! That George Dennis stuff looks tasty. Thanks for the link, TPJ. The Bassic Tube 200 Head is €1097, which works out to around £750. Dearer than a Traynor YBA200 but not bad! ADDED LATER: I've just looked at the user manual. Along with the usual Gain, Treble, Middle & Bass, the panel has knobs called "HEAT" and "BALLS". Shame, that: pretentious names and completely meaningless. The sort of nonsense guitarists like.[/quote] A bit gimmiky but if they sound as good as they look, it would be a bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 [quote name='Oxblood' post='38858' date='Jul 30 2007, 11:31 AM']Stone me! That George Dennis stuff looks tasty. Thanks for the link, TPJ. [/quote] Yeah I saw the same site just before Christmas, it looked pretty good value at the time although I suspect they're not priced keenly enough to tempt people from established brands. If the 200w tube head was going for £600 it would be pretty tempting. Thing is that the louder they shout marketing bollocks, the less impressed I become. Its like if they under estimate the intelligence of their potential market in their promotional literature, what does that say about their committment to quality control? The [url="http://www.traynoramps.com/products.asp?type=5&cat=40&id=263"]Traynor stuff[/url] would spark my interest more if I was looking for a tube amp on a budget and its [url="http://www.musik-service.de/traynor-yba-200-all-tube-bass-head-prx395754545en.aspx"]available[/url] from Germany. Those 6550 tubes are probably going to have a fairly grindy character though - much like an Ampeg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwbassman Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 Thanks for all the suggestions and links - looks like I've got some more research to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazm Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 [quote name='Oxblood' post='38858' date='Jul 30 2007, 10:31 AM']Stone me! That George Dennis stuff looks tasty. Thanks for the link, TPJ. [/quote] This bit got me: [quote]Our new bass system projects, for instance, the low [b]H[/b] string with no loss of definition.[/quote] Hmmmm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 lol I dare Dood to ask Jon Shuker about building him a bass with an H string. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Isn't H sometimes B in German music? Or is it Bb? F**k me I can't remember. I know it does get used tho. As for the valve amps - look lovely but yes, "Heat" and "Balls" puts me off! Oh, Oxblood, the thing you said about "sag", is that something which SS power amps are susceptible to as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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