Replacing a first gen HK LUKAS with RCF 710s?

[DanOwens]

I play in an acoustic blues trio. We got an XR18 last year and we're (I'm) loving it. 

Live our line up is usually me on EUB and Vocals on stage left (sometimes doghouse), Rob in the middle on acoustic guitar (DI), National (SM57), Banjo (DI) and Vocals, Dan on the end on acoustic guitar (DI), Mandolin (DPA4099), Kick Drum (Audix thing), Harmonica (Bulletini mic) and Vocals.

So we've got a lot of mics on a stage which is often about 6mx4m, playing venues of maximum 200 at the mo (pubs, bars, etc). 

Our first generation HK LUKAS has failed twice recently so we're looking to replace it. One of the guys in the band has suggested a pair of RCF 710s, no sub. I'm not too fussed about huge low end as our sound isn't very subby, and I've got lots of mics in close proximity to the tops so volume is always a battle. 

Is a pair of 710s a good idea? I doubt I could push to more than £800 and I want the peace of mind with buying new. What would you suggest?

Edited October 2, 2019 by DanOwens

[Jack]

You don't list it, but just checking: is your bass going through the PA? I mean, say what you like about the HK, at least there's a sub.

[DanOwens]

Yeah everything goes through the PA, including my bass. The HK LUKAS is the older one here: https://hkaudio.com/produkt/l-u-c-a-s/. It did have a sub and it was definitely welcome. Is it likely that the 710's low end will not be adequate?

[Jack]

1 minute ago, DanOwens said:

Yeah everything goes through the PA, including my bass. The HK LUKAS is the older one here: https://hkaudio.com/produkt/l-u-c-a-s/. It did have a sub and it was definitely welcome. Is it likely that the 710's low end will not be adequate?

Well, the problem with that is that 'adequate' is entirely subjective. My gentler band (which is still Indie rock, so likely heavier/louder than yours) has 712s for mains (and there are subs) and 710s for wedges. I have used a single 712 as a bass rig before and did ok, I'm not sure I'd want to try that with the 710. We high pass those pretty hard at 100Hz for stage monitors.

 

Plenty of 'tops' are finding favour without subs, but then you're looking at around £800 for a single speaker rather than a pair. I'm thinking of the QSC K12.2 and similar.

 

Could you do your pair of 710s and use a bass amp? If it weren't for you there'd be no hassle! Bass players, eh? Could you spring for a small sub later on maybe?

 

[DanOwens]

A later sub is a possibility. For our budget are we never going to get full range?

 

[Jack]

16 minutes ago, DanOwens said:

A later sub is a possibility. For our budget are we never going to get full range?

 

Not new and not in one cabinet. At the end of the day it's quite expensive to make a speaker that goes both low and loud whilst being a reasonably-sized. Particularly if you've got to fit some kind of amp and dsp in there, all the while making it light enough to lift up onto a speaker pole. 

 

It's doable to get a sufficient PA system for your budget if you look on the used market. My hard rock band bought a pair of Alto 15 tops and a pair of Alto 18 subs for a grand total of £1000. If you only wanted one sub (all you'd likely need) then that would be under your budget. But they're big, heavy, unnecessarily loud and not the last word in sound quality. 4 boxes rather than 2 as well. It's even possible to do it brand new if you look hard enough. I've just received a Thomann own-brand speaker that I'm quite impressed with. 2 of their 110s an 18 sub is less than £700. But again, it's not the neat 2-box solution you wanted and I doubt they'd hold a candle to the RCF 7 series. I'm actually about to do a shootout between the Thomann 12", the RCF 712 and a few others because I want to answer that question.

 

Might be possible to get a pair of older, great speakers, something like QSC K12s? Or I wonder what a used pair of 710s would go for? If you can find some for £400-£500 that would leave you a little for a decent used sub.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Jack

[Phil Starr]

We use a couple of RCF 310's for our loud semi-acoustic duo. (no drums though) and a couple more as floor monitors. Everything including bass goes through the 310's and they are perfectly adequate, I reckon a pair would be easily enough for bass with a drummer but I haven't tried it. Remember also that there is a limiter built into the amp even with the earlier RCF's and DSP in the modern ones so you pretty much can't blow anything as compression and limiting is applied if you push too far. The 710's should be better if anything. You could always add in a bass cab for the bigger venues but I don't think you'd need it.

[DanOwens]

PMT in Manchester have a pair of 710s in. Evidently I'll need to go plug a bass in and see. I was kinda expecting loads of suggestions, but K12s & Altos being close and Thomann being below the standard we're after is a surprise.

[Tubster]

There is a “halfway house” solution. You use a smallish combo for bass and feed a small amount into the PA. an example would be Fender Rumble 40 or 100 - incredibly lightweight. Or, as others have suggested, bite the bullet and go for rcf, Yamaha dxr, Qsc 12s!

Other posible is go with the 710s and rent decent sub for bigger gigs. Good luck!