crez5150 Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 .......makes you wonder how he get's away with it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 A song various jazzers like to knock but secretly they'd all give their eye teeth to have written anything remotely as popular themselves. Personally I like it but I'm not a serious jazz buff. I also found it a nightmare to learn as per original version, all sorts of subtle variations going on which as a non reader and without a great ear made it tough for me. I still wasn't convinced I'd cracked it by the time I gave it up and can't rememebr it at all now. Anyone have a really accurate transcription of it (preferably tab)? The ones I found on thr web seemed close but not 100% correct, unfortunately in the exact places I was struggling to hear exactly what was going on with the bass myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 [quote]A song various jazzers like to knock but secretly they'd all give their eye teeth to have written anything remotely as popular themselves.[/quote] I'd like to have written it...along with "The Birdy Song", "Agadoo" or any other ditty that has sold by the shed load. However, it's the performance that's in question here rather than the song. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='KevB' post='373126' date='Jan 7 2009, 03:09 PM']A song various jazzers like to knock but secretly they'd all give their eye teeth to have written anything remotely as popular themselves. Personally I like it but I'm not a serious jazz buff. I also found it a nightmare to learn as per original version, all sorts of subtle variations going on which as a non reader and without a great ear made it tough for me. I still wasn't convinced I'd cracked it by the time I gave it up and can't rememebr it at all now. Anyone have a really accurate transcription of it (preferably tab)? The ones I found on thr web seemed close but not 100% correct, unfortunately in the exact places I was struggling to hear exactly what was going on with the bass myself![/quote] No disrespect, KevB, but WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH YOUR LIFE????????? There are approximately 7,345,123,789,576,456,234,998,544.34 pieces of music that you would be better off transcribing than this - no, hang on, its 7,345,123,789,576,456,234,998,545.34, I firgot Cage's '4 Minutes of Silence' . It is unmittigated drivel. It doesn't swing, the lines are not musical, are completely uninteresting, it is not, and never has been, jazz; its just remedial sh**e, sh**e, sh**e! Transcribing it serves not purpose. You will learn nothing of value. Stop it, now. I hate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I still like it though, but yes I came to the conclusion I was getting a bit too into it for what I was getting back. Then the offer of a band came up and I had to start learning an entire set in a week. So Van took a backseat. I noticed the tab I printed off the web was still lurking under my computer table at home the other day and now the band I was asked to join has folded (after I did about 6 gigs with them) so it might just lure me back. However I've also had a call asking me to a new audition at the weekend and I've now another 6 songs to rehearse for that so....well, it will have to go in the pile with your other 7,345,123,789,576,456,234,998,545.34 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar South Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) I like it, lots of other people like it, some people don't like it. Fun to play live too. I don't see how theres any more to the argument than this? Edited January 7, 2009 by Oscar South Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestar Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='370965' date='Jan 5 2009, 02:48 PM']As a card carrying jazzer, I can say that this tune is the worst piece of remedial s***e ever to find its way onto the world's airwaves. It doesn't swing at all, anywhere, the solos are atrocious, Morrison drops nearly a whole bar in one place and is only able to avoid looking like a complete t** by the fact that the band, despite their complete lack of chops, manages to pick him up again. How this recording was ever allowed to see the light of day is an astonisihing inditement on the low production values that existed during that era. The producers (Van Morrison and Lewis Merenstein) should be ashamed of themselves (although Morrison's complete lack of self awareness would make this unlikely). The song (which I loath) is on my 'won't play' list, along with Canteloupe Island, Waternelon Man and Fever. But that's just me.[/quote] No it's not just you Bilbo. Add also Brown eyed Girl, I'll never play it again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='Oscar South' post='373271' date='Jan 7 2009, 05:27 PM']I like it, lots of other people like it, some people don't like it. Fun to play live too. I don't see how theres any more to the argument than this?[/quote] Like SteveK said, the OP was about the playing, not the song. I don't see how anyone could argue that it (the bass line anyway) is well played? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar South Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Doesn't matter, still sounds good and is enjoyable; isn't that the entire point of it in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='Oscar South' post='373509' date='Jan 7 2009, 09:14 PM']Doesn't matter, still sounds good and is enjoyable; isn't that the entire point of it in the first place?[/quote] I guess it'd be a dull place if we all liked the same stuff. Salut! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Sorry, Oscar, but on any objective level - it doesn't sound good. I agree that people will always disagree about what is the best work available and will split hairs over Stravinsky vs. Schoenberg, or Ellington vs. Mingus, But, on any scale whatsoever, 'Moondance' is not, was never and will never be 'good'. 'Popular', possibly, but 'good'; no. It serves only to prove the adage 'you can fool some of the people all of the time'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='373850' date='Jan 8 2009, 10:19 AM']Sorry, Oscar, but on any objective level - it doesn't sound good.[/quote] Ha ha Come on Bilbo, you know "sound good" is totally subjective. Confess it, you love it really ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) I actually disagree I agree that arguments around what 'sounds good' may be subjective when you are trying to decide whether Dave Holland's bass sounds better than Marc Johnson's or whether Count Basie's band is better than Weather Report but, when we are talking about whether 'Moondance' sounds good, anyone who thinks it does is, frankly, delusional. In a nutshell, if anyone tells me that 'Moondance' sounds good, I cannot but immediately dismiss them as a lightweight. Its a bit like telling an art critic that 'The Haywain' was the greatest painting of the Nineteeth Century. You flunked! And, no, I don't secretly like it. Its the popular music equivalent of a bad X-Factor audition and shoudl never be played anywhere. It sold a lot but, then again, so does plastic doo poo! Edited January 8, 2009 by bilbo230763 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='373864' date='Jan 8 2009, 10:44 AM']I actually disagree I agree that arguments around what 'sounds good' may be subjective when you are trying to decide whether Dave Holland's bass sounds better than Marc Johnson's or whether Count Basie's band is better than Weather Report but, when we are talking about whether 'Moondance' sounds good, anyone who thinks it does is, frankly, delusional. In a nutshell, if anyone tells me that 'Moondance' sounds good, I cannot but immediately dismiss them as a lightweight. Its a bit like telling an art critic that 'The Haywain' was the greatest painting of the Nineteeth Century. You flunked! [/quote] I agree that Moondance 'swings like a bucket of sh*t' but that's just you and me and a few musos. Someone else might appreciate it despite, or even because of, its flaws. I love The Fall more than life itself. MES's singing is probably the world's worst singer, but I don't think I'd like them half as much if Aretha Franklin was their singer. It's stuck in my head now (Moondance, that is). Bastards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='373864' date='Jan 8 2009, 10:44 AM']I actually disagree I agree that arguments around what 'sounds good' may be subjective when you are trying to decide whether Dave Holland's bass sounds better than Marc Johnson's or whether Count Basie's band is better than Weather Report but, when we are talking about whether 'Moondance' sounds good, anyone who thinks it does is, frankly, delusional. In a nutshell, if anyone tells me that 'Moondance' sounds good, I cannot but immediately dismiss them as a lightweight. Its a bit like telling an art critic that 'The Haywain' was the greatest painting of the Nineteeth Century. You flunked! And, no, I don't secretly like it. Its the popular music equivalent of a bad X-Factor audition and shoudl never be played anywhere. It sold a lot but, then again, so does plastic doo poo![/quote] Nah, you are wrong. Someone may think The Haywain "looks good" just as they may think Moondance sounds good. they are not "wrong" .. uninformed, misguided and daft, maybe but they are not wrong. I agree that you can listen objectively and say it doesn't swing, as defined by a set of rules for swingin' tunes. However technical you like to get, "it sounds bad" is still a subjective judgement. Shame Van bans his stuff from youtube though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 How tolerant you are How many fingers on my right hand? Six No, four; you are misguided, misinformed. daft. What the name of the tower by the Houses of Paliament? Big Ben. No, it's the Clock Tower at Westminster, Big Ben is the nickname for the Bell;you are misguided, misinformed. daft. Is Van Morrison's 'Moondance' good? Yes No, you are a pillock!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar South Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) Normally your posts are about as good as it gets on this forum, well thought out and great points. Some of the stuff you wrote in the solo bass thread especially was really interresting to read recently, and although I'm a solo bass fan I couldn't help but agree with you. This however, is ignorant tripe. Edited January 8, 2009 by Oscar South Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 [quote name='Oscar South' post='373947' date='Jan 8 2009, 12:44 PM']Normally your posts are about as good as it gets on this forum, well thought out and great points. Some of the stuff you wrote in the solo bass thread especially was really interresting to read recently, and although I'm a solo bass fan I couldn't help but agree with you. This however, is ignorant tripe.[/quote] It's *because* Bilbo's posts on important subjects are so reasonable and reasoned that he's allowed to strike a Grumpy Old Man pose on the subject of a silly 70s pop song. Just don't get him started on James 'Rhyming Slang' Blunt ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 [quote name='bremen' post='373974' date='Jan 8 2009, 01:14 PM']It's *because* Bilbo's posts on important subjects are so reasonable and reasoned that he's allowed to strike a Grumpy Old Man pose on the subject of a silly 70s pop song. Just don't get him started on James 'Rhyming Slang' Blunt ;-)[/quote] or Mustang Sally.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar South Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 That actually makes perfect sense. Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Just don't get me on 'Mustang Sally'!! Oscar South - apologies if you find my perspectives to be absolute tripe but you made the cardinal error of taking me seriously. I do try to be reasonable and considered at all times and give a measured response to any serious debate. But, on this occasion, I thought I would have a little mischevious fun at the expense of one of the most objectional human beings in music. I guess the amount of money that 'Moondance' has brought him over the last 30 years will provide some comfort to 'Van' when he is faced with this unsolicited onslaught from the Suffolk quarter and I am sure he will cope. Keep safe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='374011' date='Jan 8 2009, 01:36 PM']... but you made the cardinal error of taking me seriously.[/quote] No one expects Cardinal Error! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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