DG M900 AO | Mk2

[krispn]

I might have been reading too literally but if using the ‘power amp in’ section’ you only get the power amp none of the other amp features would be available as you’d only be using the power section. Obviously you might be saying just plug into the front of the amp. 
There’s a power amp in the TS for £400 ish which does 3kwatt at 4ohm. Plenty of headroom with that and it’s only 8kg! 

[Cuzzie]

29 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Well it obviously depends on what folk are after. 

As I've pointed out a couple of times previously it offers 900W at 4 ohms and decent 6 band EQ. 

If the combination of headroom and EQ flexibility are important criteria in your amp choice then it will trump a lot of others, which don't match it. 

If you have different priorities, then I'm sure plenty of other amps will be fine. 

Thanks 

I know it has a 6 band EQ, and I know how it works having had the amp and various other DG products and of course the combination is good, but you specifically mentioned the power amp trumping others out there, that is what I am interested in and was hoping you could shed some more light on

Edited March 20, 2021 by Cuzzie

[Al Krow]

28 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Thanks 

I know it has a 6 band EQ, and I know how it works having had the amp and various other DG products and of course the combination is good, but you specifically mentioned the power amp trumping others out there, that is what I am interested in and was hoping you could shed some more light on

Oh ok, I think if you read back the emphasis was all around the headroom and 6 band EQ:

"not come across many power amps that trump the M900 with it's huge headroom & 6 band EQ"

 which is the point I've just restated. Wasn't really going any further than that

I guess worth mentioning that DG kit does have a good rep for reliability and, certainly to me, the form factor & design of M900 are top notch.

[NancyJohnson]

Let's nip things in the bud here!

I don't want to go back to a full rack again.  No point.  Did I mention I had an MRI on my back three weeks ago and I have a touch of arthritis in L1-4 vertebrae? While the dUg amp is/was tempting, it cost a fortune, so while the AO900+dUg combination is a little less easy on the eye than the racked dUg, I'm still £600-ish in on the deal.

I do think it would be dreamy if @Tech21NYC (I'm gonna keep tagging them and I'm half a bottle of a delightful red in on an empty stomach, so blurgh) would consider doing a small, loud head with dUg (or GL) built in.  The Darkglass is dreamy from a size/weight/output/portability perspective, but right now, it's not doing it for me as a standalone unit.  Too many basses, active/passive etc.  At some point, I might see if I can emulative the dUg tone and then things will be dreamier.

Right.  I really need to take my contact lenses out, cook dinner and crack open another bottle.  It's Saturday.  I've been a good little worker bee (and I deserve a gold star).

 

[NancyJohnson]

Just now, NancyJohnson said:

I'm still £600-ish in on the deal.

*and several pounds weight.

Right.  Where's my corkscrew?

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

*and several pounds weight.

Right.  Where's my corkscrew?

Enjoy the red. 

But seriously...I have to disagree on one point. I mean, how can you say that the dUg Ultrabass is better looking than the AO 900 (even if you have wee D3PX sitting on it)?! I mean, does it have EQ sliders that light up helpfully on a darkened stage? 😁

[Cuzzie]

15 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

Let's nip things in the bud here!

I don't want to go back to a full rack again.  No point.  Did I mention I had an MRI on my back three weeks ago and I have a touch of arthritis in L1-4 vertebrae? While the dUg amp is/was tempting, it cost a fortune, so while the AO900+dUg combination is a little less easy on the eye than the racked dUg, I'm still £600-ish in on the deal.

I do think it would be dreamy if @Tech21NYC (I'm gonna keep tagging them and I'm half a bottle of a delightful red in on an empty stomach, so blurgh) would consider doing a small, loud head with dUg (or GL) built in.  The Darkglass is dreamy from a size/weight/output/portability perspective, but right now, it's not doing it for me as a standalone unit.  Too many basses, active/passive etc.  At some point, I might see if I can emulative the dUg tone and then things will be dreamier.

Right.  I really need to take my contact lenses out, cook dinner and crack open another bottle.  It's Saturday.  I've been a good little worker bee (and I deserve a gold star).

 

Go and drink some grape juice - you deserve it

Honestly not racked the dUg amp is easy to move around - I used to sling it in a Fusion DJ mix bag.

The rack case I have is the Gator soft one which has an extended handle and so you wheel it like an overnight bag/suitcase/carry on luggage on an aeroplane.

Super easy.

The DG in any format will never hit the Mark, it’s drive is not set up right, there is something not quite there about how it comes out,  I know why but that’s a whole other conversation. Even their X7 which tries to do the dUg cant.

I di pretty much recreate the dUg sound by other means (not heavy) and if you wanna have a throw ideas around then gimme a nudge.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Cuzzie

[krispn]

10 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Enjoy the red. 

I mean, does it have EQ sliders that light up helpfully on a darkened stage? 😁

Which would be redundant if using the ‘power amp in’ option in the back. Just saying!

[Al Krow]

10 minutes ago, krispn said:

Which would be redundant if using the ‘power amp in’ option in the back. Just saying!

Yup, but you don't need to do that!  And certainly not what I would be doing. 

Simply plug the dUg or any pedal in at the front end and you can entirely bypass the AO 'module' (it's clear from the circuit diag in the manual) via a panel switch or footswitch. So you still have the benefit of the 6 band EQ.

[Cuzzie]

9 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Yup, but you don't need to do that!  And certainly not what I would be doing. 

Simply plug the dUg or any pedal in at the front end and you can entirely bypass the AO 'module' (it's clear from the circuit diag in the manual) via a panel switch or footswitch. So you still have the benefit of the 6 band EQ.

Are you on the same drinks as @NancyJohnson and started reading manuals........it’s not even April!

[krispn]

Ah it’s the fx return not power amp in he was using. That’s where I got my wires crossed. Your amp doesn’t have a power amp in.

[Al Krow]

11 hours ago, krispn said:

Ah it’s the fx return not power amp in he was using. That’s where I got my wires crossed. Your amp doesn’t have a power amp in.

No worries; I thought you were meaning something like the fx return (and also that you knew what you were talking about, which is usually the case!) Personally I've never gone for pedals in an amp's fx loop, partly 'cos I've not really got my head around as to whether there's any real benefit to doing so! But always had them straight into the front end.

As you're probably already aware, the M900 series 2 range is very flexible in terms of where you take your outputs with separate volume controls for DI out (pre or post) and main output as well as an independent volume control for the headphone out. It does have a couple of quirks that you need to get used to e.g. the M900 headphone amp (which is 'post DI' so you get the benefit of the full 6 band EQ) is impacted by the amp mute, so you need to leave the amp unmuted but the master volume set to zero for silent practice; and the aux in only feeds into the headphone amp, and not the main amp, which seems to be an unnecessary limitation when you're not wanting to do silent practice.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

On 20/03/2021 at 20:55, Al Krow said:

Simply plug the dUg or any pedal in at the front end and you can entirely bypass the AO 'module' (it's clear from the circuit diag in the manual) via a panel switch or footswitch. So you still have the benefit of the 6 band EQ.

Speaking of plugging a Tech 21 pedal in the front of the M900, just been doing that with my VT Bass DI.

With the setting I've tweaked it on (which I've dubbed "bass sheen"), it seems to be delivering that coveted complex harmonic "tube" sheen, that I've seen promised by the likes of Lehle Sonic Spark, and getting my gigging rig as close to the sound of my home rig as anyone is likely to notice in a live mix. So that's a particular box finally and happily ticked.

And on the subject of 6 band EQ, hats off to DG for their choice of centre points at 80Hz, 250Hz, 500hz, 1.5kHz, 3kHz and 5kHz - a very decent selection!

Edited March 21, 2021 by Al Krow

[Lozz196]

That’s a very well worked out eq, prob the most useful points in sculpting a good bass tone easily & quickly.

[Cuzzie]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Speaking of plugging a Tech 21 pedal in the front of the M900, just been doing that with my VT Bass DI.

With the setting I've tweaked it on (which I've dubbed "bass sheen"), it seems to be delivering that coveted complex harmonic "tube" sheen, that I've seen promised by the likes of Lehle Sonic Spark, and getting my gigging rig as close to the sound of my home rig as anyone is likely to notice in a live mix. So that's a particular box finally and happily ticked.

And on the subject of 6 band EQ, hats off to DG for their choice of centre points at 80Hz, 250Hz, 500hz, 1.5kHz, 3kHz and 5kHz - a very decent selection!

It’s good that you found the sweet spot. You’ve had both amp and pedal for a while and no doubt been playing with them for a while - what was the Eureka moment?

What particular settings and any recordings to share?

[Al Krow]

I got the VT Bass DI just before lockdown kicked in, so it's not been out on the road yet and my gig-rig has mostly been in storage, for obvious reasons(!), and I've been pretty much using my home rig since then. But a very recent separate discussion around DG drive tones with a couple of BC'ers was motivation to get the DG M900 AO out and give it a bit of a shakedown. 

I did note pretty quickly that the VT Bass DI had the very welcome ability, on certain settings and with its bite (enhanced presence) engaged, to "lift the blanket" on a MB combo I've got. I'm using a close variation of the same setting with the DG+BB2 (gig rig). For me the VT Bass DI has become a "must have" addition when using the MB combo (which is basically a practice combo I've left up at my folks' place), although I appreciate many MB owners are very happy with their untailored sound. It provides a more subtle / less noticeable difference with the DG+BB2 which are significantly more transparent / less treble-rounded than the MB combo but, fingers crossed, it's exactly the "little extra" harmonic richness I've been on a bit of a quest for.

It's also good to have got a very decent / usable Omega drive setting on the amp (which I posted a page back on this thread). This will be a very usable alternative to the B7K patch on my Zoom B1-4, which is pretty good and my particular fav Zoom drive patch.

[Cuzzie]

Sounds good

look forward to hearing some samples

[Cuzzie]

Interestingly from what you said, do you keep your gig stuff in storage not in the home?

If so it’s a cunning ploy to avoid the Mrs seeing how much gear you have!

[Al Krow]

Haha, nothing so elaborate. It's just tidied away together with the rest of the PA gear, lights etc and all the other stuff that's not been used during lockdown, in our equivalent of a cupboard under the stairs!

[Al Krow]

@NancyJohnson - completely agree with you that the some of the YT clips featuring Dingwall basses sounds nothing like what I'm hearing from the AO drive through my rig and basses either! 

Scott's review of the preamp is pretty thorough (together with lots of chat!) - worth picking this up at about 7.00 onwards. And if you want to cut to the chase then at 15.30 he does a comparison of the alpha and omega drive tones.

My personal take is that the AO is a more "mainstream" drive tone whereas the B7K is what I think of as being "classic Darkglass" and to my ears the Tech 21 YYZ sound is a lot closer to the B7K than the Omega I'll be using on the amp.

What I would say is that if you dislike the AO drive tone, then the M900 AO wouldn't be an obvious choice of amp in my books! Although its very capable clean power amp section should pair easily and well with the preamp pedal of your choice.

 

[Al Krow]

This review has had 175 likes and no dislikes - it's a really nice (no talking) demo of the preamp, EQ and cab sims available on the M900 AO. Link to detailed review of the amp http://bit.ly/DarkglassAlphaOmega

 

[NancyJohnson]

36 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

This review has had 175 likes and no dislikes - it's a really nice (no talking) demo of the preamp, EQ and cab sims available on the M900 AO. Link to detailed review of the amp http://bit.ly/DarkglassAlphaOmega

 

I've seen this one previously.

I think the main issue here is that the head hasn't seen much activity (despite tenure of ownership) so I've yet to dial in what I need.  What I do know though is that aside from the VT Bass (I've owned both rack and DI box) and the failed GL rack unit, @Tech21NYC kit just works right out of the box for me.

[Al Krow]

8 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

I've seen this one previously.

I think the main issue here is that the head hasn't seen much activity (despite tenure of ownership) so I've yet to dial in what I need.  What I do know though is that aside from the VT Bass (I've owned both rack and DI box) and the failed GL rack unit, @Tech21NYC kit just works right out of the box for me.

The irony that we're both making use of Tech 21 pedals (in my case the VT Bass DI and yours the dUg) to get the most out of our DG M900 AOs has not been lost on me! (Nor the fact that the one I'm using is precisely the one that didn't work for you straight out of the box 😁).

[NancyJohnson]

While my IT guys were updating my laptop earlier, I decided to spend a bit of time getting a usable tone out of the AO900.

So for the benefit of @Al Krow and @Cuzzie here's the settings for what I'd consider to be a lively tone (whumpy bottom, lowish/scooped mids and a bit of a gritty/gnarly top end.  I was using my Hamer Cruisebass (passive/Gezzer Butler PJs, everything full-on).  Amp is set for passive input, growl off, distortion and bite both engaged.

This is running through a DG 1x12 with the horn at the midway position.  I prefer the Alpha side over the Omega Phuzz, the Comp light flickers intermittently (which equates to it working at optimum level.  I don't use the footswitch, never have.

Thing is, this is fine for the Hamer, but when I plug in the Lulls or the Spector, it simply won't be the case of just disengaging the passive/active circuit, it'll be more a case of starting over from scratch again, and it'll be different again if I went live with it or through different cabs.

[Edit] I just spent a bit of time and got a usable clean tone and then dialled in the dirt/blend.  That said, if I was using the dUg, I'd just plug in and any setting sounds good, to be honest.  The DG is just more work.

Edited March 23, 2021 by NancyJohnson

[Al Krow]

Thanks Paul. Here's my settings (at home rather than gig levels!) for comparison.

I see we've both gone for pretty similar EQ settings including a bit of bass boost at 80Hz that adds some nice weight to the low end and counters low end suck that most drives seem to suffer from without adding boom-iness at the 40Hz and below range. Key difference seems to be you've cut at 1.5kHz whereas I've boosted, as I'm a fan of the additional "presence" that gives me. 

Similar amounts of clean blend (about 40%) with our drives - I'm obviously preferring the mid heavy Omega over the Alpha which you've gone for, with bite button engaged for us both.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Al Krow