DG M900 AO | Mk2

[krispn]

Honestly they’re more different looking than similar from the dials and sliders. You should give those settings a spin and hear what the similarities are. Be good to hear how they A/B!

[NancyJohnson]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Thanks Paul. Here's my settings (at home rather than gig levels!) for comparison.

I see we've both gone for pretty similar EQ settings including a bit of bass boost at 80Hz that adds some nice weight to the low end and counters low end suck that most drives seem to suffer from without adding boom-iness at the 40Hz and below range. Key difference seems to be you've cut at 1.5kHz whereas I've boosted, as I'm a fan of the additional "presence" that gives me. 

Similar amounts of clean blend (about 40%) with our drives - I'm obviously preferring the mid heavy Omega over the Alpha which you've gone for, with bite button engaged for us both.

Distortion off?

 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, NancyJohnson said:

Distortion off?

Yup, looks like it was off on that particular pic but those are, in any case, my drive settings for when the AO is engaged. 

Fyi - I'm using the footswitch, which overrides the distortion button on the amp ie will engage / disengage the AO drive unit irrespective of whether the button is pressed on the amp. The led will still come on on both the amp and footswitch though. 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

9 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

...the Comp light flickers intermittently (which equates to it working at optimum level). 

That's not a bad approach to using the comp. The fact that it has some form of metering, albeit pretty limited, is definitely helpful. But at the end of the day it's a one knob compressor (which @51m0n would regard as being the devil's spawn and has gone on record, saying so) and I personally find that the make-up gain over compensates for the amount of compression resulting in an overall increase in volume as you increase the compression levels, which you then have to "un make-up" elsewhere. The comp is outside the AO circuit and so available for your clean sound, if you want it, which I suspect for most folks will be the more common use. There's a fair bit of compression in most drives anyway but I guess you can always double-up to further increase the sustain if this appeals and probably no need to faff adjusting it down mid-set when you switch from clean to drive given that the drive will, in any case, dominate the more subtle impact of compression.

There was some suggestion that DG had included a Hyper Luminal "Lite" as the compression circuit, which does get a lot of positive reviews from users elsewhere.

So looking at what we've got included: it's essentially got a Hyper Luminal Lite(?) compressor + AO Ultra preamp + 900W class D power amp + footswitch in a pretty handsome package with DG's reputation for build quality. And if you can pick one up used for a decent price (which I was fortunate to do), you're not going to be doing too badly at all. Unless, of course, you really don't like the AO drive tone, in which case you'd probably be better off spending your hard earned cash elsewhere.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

43 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

That's not a bad approach to using the comp. The fact that it has some form of metering, albeit pretty limited, is definitely helpful. But at the end of the day it's a one knob compressor (which @51m0n would regard as being the devi'sl spawn and has gone on record, saying so) and I personally find that the make-up gain over compensates for the amount of compression resulting in an overall increase in volume as you increase the compression levels, which you then have to "un make-up" elsewhere. The comp is outside the AO circuit and so available for your clean sound, if you want it, which I suspect for most folks will be the more common use. There's a fair bit of compression in most drives anyway but I guess you can always double-up to further increase the sustain if this appeals and probably no need to faff adjusting it down mid-set when you switch from clean to drive given that the drive will, in any case, dominate the more subtle impact of compression.

There was some suggestion that DG had included a Hyper Luminal "Lite" as the compression circuit, which does get a lot of positive reviews from users elsewhere.

So looking at what we've got included: it's essentially got a Hyper Luminal Lite(?) compressor + AO Ultra preamp + 900W class D power amp + footswitch in a pretty handsome package with DG's reputation for build quality. And if you can pick one up used for a decent price (which I was fortunate to do), you're not going to be doing too badly at all. Unless, of course, you really don't like the AO drive tone, in which case you'd probably be better off spending your hard earned cash elsewhere.

Hyperluminal has 3 compressors on it - which one is it on the amp as a lite version?

[Grav]

10 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Hyperluminal has 3 compressors on it - which one is it on the amp as a lite version?

The Darkglass Super Symmetry setting (SYM on the HL)

[Al Krow]

The BtW crew, who seem to know the DG team and products pretty well, touch on the comp in the AO 900 at 4.45 in their usual entertaining review, below.

@Grav - that's really useful additional info, thanks.

 

[Cuzzie]

1 hour ago, Grav said:

The Darkglass Super Symmetry setting (SYM on the HL)

It’s a decent Comp the SS -the BUS on the HLis the best one though

[NancyJohnson]

I've had a fairly decent noodle on the AO900 over the last couple of days and it sounds pretty nice in isolation, but I was working on some new LS stuff and thought, well rather just try and record, I'll play along with the stuff that's been sent over, but it's been a real struggle.

It's pretty easy to dial in a grindy tone, power/dirt, but the dUg just sounds so much better to my ears, so for now, I'm back to the dUg into the effects return.

Come on @Tech21NYC give us a nice loud dUg (or Ged) in a VTBASS 500 size box.  You know you can do it.

[krispn]

I wonder if it’s to do with how the mid range is voiced on the dug and if it just makes it more mix friendly?

 

[Cuzzie]

1 hour ago, NancyJohnson said:

I've had a fairly decent noodle on the AO900 over the last couple of days and it sounds pretty nice in isolation, but I was working on some new LS stuff and thought, well rather just try and record, I'll play along with the stuff that's been sent over, but it's been a real struggle.

It's pretty easy to dial in a grindy tone, power/dirt, but the dUg just sounds so much better to my ears, so for now, I'm back to the dUg into the effects return.

Come on @Tech21NYC give us a nice loud dUg (or Ged) in a VTBASS 500 size box.  You know you can do it.

It’s the difference between DG drive which is close but no cigar and Tech21’s drive like the dUg which nails it.

Here’s something for you, you could maybe make your own enclosure!

[Al Krow]

One thing I hadn't clocked was that the 500W versions are not just a cut down power amp of the 900W versions, but are also a little more compact (which I'd view as a plus) and have dispensed with a few "nice to haves" present on the 900W versions: the M500 only has a master volume in place of both gain & master on the M900, just one DI out instead of both pre and post DI out options, no midi connectivity or no separate volume control for the headphones. 

So they are differently spec'd models and I guess the price differential between the two starts to stack up, although tbf I suspect I'd be entirely content with the 500W version in place of my 900W if I had got my hands on that instead.

@NancyJohnson are you finding any difference to having the dUG in the fx return to putting it into the amp input?

[Cuzzie]

13 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

One thing I hadn't clocked was that the 500W versions are not just a cut down power amp of the 900W versions, but are also a little more compact (which I'd view as a plus) and have dispensed with a few "nice to haves" present on the 900W versions: the M500 only has a master volume in place of both gain & master on the M900, just one DI out instead of both pre and post DI out options, no midi connectivity or no separate volume control for the headphones. 

So they are differently spec'd models and I guess the price differential between the two starts to stack up, although tbf I suspect I'd be entirely content with the 500W version in place of my 900W if I had got my hands on that instead.

@NancyJohnson are you finding any difference to having the dUG in the fx return to putting it into the amp input?

Does that no go against your minimum headroom rule?

[Al Krow]

Nope - 300W at 8 ohms is my preferred min. The M500 should handle that easily give it's 500W at 4ohms. But I'm not complaining about having 900W at 4 ohms on tap!

[Cuzzie]

7 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Nope - 300W at 8 ohms is my preferred min. The M500 should handle that easily give it's 500W at 4ohms. But I'm not complaining about having 900W at 4 ohms on tap!

Phew thank goodness for that, good job it’s not listed as having 250w at 8 ohms then......

[NancyJohnson]

3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

One thing I hadn't clocked was that the 500W versions are not just a cut down power amp of the 900W versions, but are also a little more compact (which I'd view as a plus) and have dispensed with a few "nice to haves" present on the 900W versions: the M500 only has a master volume in place of both gain & master on the M900, just one DI out instead of both pre and post DI out options, no midi connectivity or no separate volume control for the headphones. 

So they are differently spec'd models and I guess the price differential between the two starts to stack up, although tbf I suspect I'd be entirely content with the 500W version in place of my 900W if I had got my hands on that instead.

@NancyJohnson are you finding any difference to having the dUG in the fx return to putting it into the amp input?

I've always pushed outboard gear through the FX return since the days of BassPods and Ashdown MAG combos, so I'd never put the dUg through the front input.  The prestage will always colour whatever you're pushging through it.

 

 

[Cuzzie]

22 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Nope - 300W at 8 ohms is my preferred min. The M500 should handle that easily give it's 500W at 4ohms. But I'm not complaining about having 900W at 4 ohms on tap!

Aren’t your cabs for creative home use and gig rig both 8ohms so you never get the full 900w? (Or 1Khz full blast)

Edited March 25, 2021 by Cuzzie

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

I've always pushed outboard gear through the FX return since the days of BassPods and Ashdown MAG combos, so I'd never put the dUg through the front input.  The prestage will always colour whatever you're pushing through it.

Is the fx loop in parallel with the preamp or in series on the M900?

If it's in series then I presume you're just swapping around the order i.e. putting the dUg after the preamp rather than before it?

But either way in the M900 you can clean by-pass the AO circuit in the same way as you can if you had it as a preamp / drive pedal.

[krispn]

He might be meaning bypassing the amps eq section entirely as there will be ‘built in’ colouration even at flat’ -!whether it’s enough to notice on some amps more than others is a while other topic on what is ‘flat’ etc which have been done to death especially on TB. 

Ive used some tube pre amps years ago where the eq could be bypassed entirely and you we just getting bass>tubes>output. One unit in particular  when used this way was unquestionably the best sound I’ve had on a bass. 

[Al Krow]

2 minutes ago, krispn said:

He might be meaning bypassing the amps eq section entirely as there will be ‘built in’ colouration even at flat’ -!whether it’s enough to notice on some amps more than others is a while other topic on what is ‘flat’ etc which have been done to death especially on TB. 

Ive used some tube pre amps years ago where the eq could be bypassed entirely and you we just getting bass>tubes>output. One unit in particular  when used this way was unquestionably the best sound I’ve had on a bass. 

Thanks. To bypass the EQ section entirely the fx loop would need to be in parallel though. I didn't spot any clues in the manual as to whether that was the case and, given I've not previously used fx loops myself, not considered whether series or parallel is the "standard" approach for fx loops on amps. 

[Grav]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

One thing I hadn't clocked was that the 500W versions are not just a cut down power amp of the 900W versions, but are also a little more compact (which I'd view as a plus) and have dispensed with a few "nice to haves" present on the 900W versions: the M500 only has a master volume in place of both gain & master on the M900, just one DI out instead of both pre and post DI out options, no midi connectivity or no separate volume control for the headphones. 

So they are differently spec'd models and I guess the price differential between the two starts to stack up, although tbf I suspect I'd be entirely content with the 500W version in place of my 900W if I had got my hands on that instead.

 

I owned the 900 before the 500. The extra features on the 900 are definitely nice though the only one I personally miss is the gain control (and I don't miss it that much)

Volume wise they are almost identical, and obviously the tone is identical.

Here's a pic showing the size compared to a MB. 

[krispn]

2 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

Aren’t your cabs for creative home use and gig rig both 8ohms so you never get the full 900w? (Or 1Khz full blast)

I have no experience of BF cabs so wouldny know. I do know my Tecamp is sold in an 8ohm or 4ohm version- I don't know if BF do this too...

Edited March 25, 2021 by krispn

[Al Krow]

It's ok gents, you can stop fretting about the power amp capability on the DG M900. It doesn't cause me any concerns at all that I have plenty of headroom when using either my 8 ohm BF BB2 or 8 ohm fEARless F112. (And heaven forbid, I might even take them both out together at some point in the future...) 

[Cuzzie]

17 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

It's ok gents, you can stop fretting about the power amp capability on the DG M900. It doesn't cause me any concerns at all that I have plenty of headroom when using either my 8 ohm BF BB2 or 8 ohm fEARless F112. (And heaven forbid, I might even take them both out together at some point in the future...) 

We ain’t fretting sunshine  (we are Fretless) just chatting about amps and cabs correct specs and capabilities for everyone’s learning and benefit whether they are existing owners, past owners or potential owners - nowt wrong with that 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Cuzzie

[Al Krow]

Super!