Does your band use a sub-woofer as part of your PA?

[Al Krow]

@Gottastopbuyinggear - I thought @Tubster had answered my question in his previous post, but maybe you're looking for him to expand on what he meant by 'sonic authority' further?

One major request from me - can we abbreviate your avatar name to GSBG please? It's almost as much as of a mouthful (but nothing really quite is) as @Quatschmacher which has been unceremoniously cut down to Q (by me anyway) - which actually is quite appropriate given his abilities to coax a silk purse out of a sow's ear FI pedal. But perhaps more importantly yours is as close to a heretical avatar name as it's possible to have without being banned from the forum 😁

 

[EBS_freak]

@Gottastopbuyinggearin relation to you questioning whether a sub would be enough for your bass... well, yeah - I think I've mentioned before, the most important frequencies for your bass lie in the 1st harmonic... so 82Hz for a bottom E or 62Hz if you are running with a B string. Both of those frequencies should easily be able to be covered by tops. If you put too much of the fundamental through the sub, it will all come out as mud anyway. The main advantage of the sub is taking the energy sapping kick (circa 50-60Hz) out of your tops power amps.

[Dan Dare]

I have to use my subs. The power amps are built into them. However, I practically always roll off the bass - sometimes markedly so - depending on the venue acoustics. A little goes a long way and too much can easily turn everything into a mudfest. 

[Gottastopbuyinggear]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

@Gottastopbuyinggear - I thought @Tubster had answered my question in his previous post, but maybe you're looking for him to expand on what he meant by 'sonic authority' further?

One major request from me - can we abbreviate your avatar name to GSBG please? It's almost as much as of a mouthful (but nothing really quite is) as @Quatschmacher which has been unceremoniously cut down to Q (by me anyway) - which actually is quite appropriate given his abilities to coax a silk purse out of a sow's ear FI pedal. But perhaps more importantly yours is as close to a heretical avatar name as it's possible to have without being banned from the forum 😁

 

Sorry, I wasn’t being very clear - it was paul_c2’s question to Tubster about venue size and genre of music, which would be a useful reference point.

Regarding the username, I’m afraid I have pretty much managed to stop - I hang my head in shame!

[bertbass]

If you're any good at building cabs you could do a lot worse than buy Bill's plans for subs.  Easy builds and seriously excellent performance.  Pretty light too.

 

https://billfitzmaurice.info/index.html

[Bigjas]

+1 for Bill Fitzmaurice plans.  I've not made a sub yet, but made a couple of Jack 12 bass speakers and they are great.

[colleya]

@Al Krow hope you don't mind me reviving this thread. Would be interested to know how you're getting on with the RCF. I'm toying with the idea of replacing our Alto 1st gen 15" sub, but the RCF is double the price of the new Alto.

[Al Krow]

58 minutes ago, colleya said:

@Al Krow hope you don't mind me reviving this thread. Would be interested to know how you're getting on with the RCF. I'm toying with the idea of replacing our Alto 1st gen 15" sub, but the RCF is double the price of the new Alto.

Not at all!

Can't meaningfully report on performance yet...story so far is that I managed to get 10% off on an eBay promotion but when the cab arrived there was a slight scuff to one of the corners and no damage to the packaging, so clearly happened in store. The store managed to mislay my email to them reporting this to them and only responded (genuinely apologetically by phone) when I had escalated this with eBay which brought this to their attention. They then more than made good by offering me £50 worth of kit from the store by way of compensation and I've treated the band to a connecting pole between the sub and top as part of this. That's taken a few weeks to sort and the sub was left in the box in case it needed to be returned.

So I've ended up with, in effect, a B stock RCF sub for £575, so I really can't complain. And at 39 lbs the weight is just about comfortable, so I'm not sure I would have managed the Alto. 

I'm only going to be bothering with the full set up with sub at function gigs where there is no in house PA i.e. not for pub gigs. Our first such outing is going to be NYE and a 21st birthday party later that week, so I can let you know we get on, with pleasure, following that.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Al Krow

[AlphaK]

I saw that @Jack had an RCF 12" sub paired with two RCF 12" tops, in a for sale thread, which looked great.

I'll leave Jack to elaborate on what difference the sub makes to their sound when it's being used vs if they go tops only.

Edited December 8, 2019 by AlphaK

[Al Krow]

Thanks for that @AlphaK. Yup I'm sure @Jack's thoughts would be of interest to a bunch of us on this thread!

Edited December 8, 2019 by Al Krow

[Jack]

I'm not sure they're actually constructive thoughts, mind.

 

Yes indeed. That above picture was from early this summer when my indie band's mongrel PA consisted of the drummer's RCF 712 tops (he doesn't have subs) and our guitarist's Samson sub (he has a full Samson PA in which the tops aren't as good as the RCFs). We've since bought a nice pair of RCF 702s as a band to go under the drummer's tops. In our setup they're a necessity really. That pic above isn't representative as we've all got our big rigs out to be silly with in the marquee but we're usually a really quiet band and we try to put as much through the pa as possible. Without the subs I'd have to be blasting away on stage super loud, and that's going to bleed into all the mics and just ruin everyone's day. This way we're all always at 'drummer loud' on stage and the master fader on the desk just goes up or down depending on the venue. I'm trying to get the guitarists in this band to switch to DIs rather than mics as it's really cleaned up the sound in my other band to no end but it's less pressing as these guys are pretty quiet anyway.

 

These guys, however, are not.

Heavier band use an Alto system of two TS115A tops and two TSSUB18 subs. It's alower-quality system perhaps but it sounds great and the subs really do add to that rock music kick drum that adds a lot of energy to a mix. Means I don't need so much amp as well.

[Tubster]

Well done AL on picking up the RCF. I note your "I'm only going to be bothering with the full set up with sub at function gigs where there is no in house PA i.e. not for pub gigs" comment but I fear once you have used the system with sub and have everything 'tuned up' so to speak, it will be very difficult to leave the sub at home for any gig!

Sorry I didn't clarify my earlier comments re venue size etc. - we play lots of indoor and outdoor venues here in SW Spain with audience size of 50-200. Mostly covers - Prince, Thin Lizzy, Pretenders, F. Mac, old Soul and RnB. All our material is in English so we have to be very careful how we balance the sets as our audience is 95% Spanish and they like their 80's Spanish pop which we either won't, or can't play.  We cover the coast North of Gib and up to Seville and sometimes do Costa del Sol stuff down to Malaga. There are worse places to play......

Very interested to hear how it all pans out for you.

[colleya]

Just picked up a (barely) used 702 with cover. Next gig is Jan 11 so will report back.

[colleya]

Reporting in following Saturday's gig.  The RCF 702 replaced Alto TS 115a.  Running it with Alto TS312 tops.

Noticeably tighter and with more physical presence, especially with music form the iPad between sets. Actually got a bit of 'I can feel that' type bass that the Alto never produced. We don't put bass through the PA, just kick drum but I got the distinct impression that it would handle it just fine as long as you don't take the mick volume wise.

The cover is also ace, as it has little zippable flaps, cowboy underwear style, meaning that you don't have to remove it at all.

Plus it's 2/3 of the size and weight, which is the biggest positive for me as I've got to lug the thing around.

[dmccombe7]

Our drummer owns the PA and has a QSC system with two of each K12's, K153's and K181's.

1. For smaller less than 100 gigs he uses the 12's on their own. (vocals only)

2. For slightly bigger gigs typically 100-200 he'll add the subs. (vocals and bass and snare drum usually. Depending on size of the venue will decide whether or not we put backline thru PA)

3. For larger gigs again he'll use the 15's with subs and if needed he can add in the 12's again. (everything thru PA)

From a personal preference i like having the subs in all gigs as it gives the bass drum more impact and seems to provide a more filling sound for the drums. We'll set up the gear for slightly larger gigs and depending on how the sound-check comes across with just backline on its own we will make a decision as to whether or not we just put bass and guitar thru PA. I would prefer everything thru the PA except the smaller gigs. I feel it gives a better overall sound but majority of the audience wouldn't notice to be honest.

Dave

 

[P-T-P]

Having gone to full modelling, we initially tried just our FBT x-lite 12s tops but sound was a bit compressed.

Changed to ALTO 312 tops which cope a lot better and okay for smaller gigs.

Added two cheap active subs - Evolution sub 15 - much improvement but tops still getting full range signal as no crossover on the sub outs.

Finally added a single ALTO TS312s and sound is amazing, if I say so myself. More than adequate for most gigs we do and a super quick set-up and take down.