Beginner Forum

[Dmanlamius]

[quote name='LWTAIT' post='375468' date='Jan 9 2009, 06:00 PM']i gotta say im coming round to the idea very slightly after reading dmanlamius' first reply. i've not noticed many of the things he says he has noticed, such as questions being unanswered and snobbery, but then, i was a member of bassworld and have been a member on here for a long time, maybe i'm used to it? i might even be one of those snobs, but i definatly try not to be. if he says he's noticed it, i dont doubt he has. i've been looking at basschat from a beginners point of view since i read this thread, and to be honest i can see how it could sort of lower your confidence being surrounded by so many talented players. i still stand by the comments i made before, but i'm seeing why you would be for it and theres a part of me that agrees.[/quote]

That's a very wise and mature post, LWTAIT. You're certainly not one of those snobs, (I have no names in mind, just something i've noticed here and there). I respect people that can stand back and see two sides to the situation.

As I teach online, I get rounded view on people's psychology when learning. Confidence can really be lost easy for a lot of people, even if it is being anonymous on a web forum. Sometimes it can all be a bit much. It's a long pathway of learning when taking up a musical instrument, and that journey can seem a long one for those that are taking their first steps. As soon as the first obstacle approaches, it's easier for some to turn around and go back home...

It doesn't matter how experienced and how pro we are as players. None of us have the right to be snobby or aloof around those that are wanting to learn. It reminds me of those people that bother and beep their horn at learner drivers that go too slow. Weren't they in that position once? Or did they come out of the womb with a steering wheel in hand?

None of this is secret. None of these techniques are original. No-one is re-inventing the wheel here. Everything learnt and taught in the bass playing world has gone before, and we, as experienced should be sharing our knowledge with those that want to learn, just as that knowledge was shared with us...

No-one has the right to be arrogant.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='AM1' post='374674' date='Jan 9 2009, 12:24 AM']Mentoring is exactly what I had in mind...[/quote]

I'm glad you said that, I was getting a horrible vision of the blind leading the blind...

What could be quite useful in the sense of a beginner forum is that we're not all equally well rounded bass players and some who are very experienced at playing bass may be relative beginners at certain facets of bass playing and could thus benefit from an environment where that facet can be addressed from the most basic level. For instance I'm incredibly slow at reading music and not much cop at jazz thangs like walking and soloing but on the flipside in the musical scenarios I normally create I'm the baddest of badasses. It doesn't feel that long ago that I was starting out (ok, twelve years isn't exactly last week) but I can still remember so many things that seemed so hard which I can do in my sleep now.

Alex

[ARGH]

I'd be up for moderating such a forum...

Might..Just might stop a few odd prejudices against me here.

Edited January 9, 2009 by ARGH

[josh3184]

if beginners get a forum so do lefties... (and I'll moderate that :brow:)

[mewsie]

[quote name='paul h' post='374374' date='Jan 8 2009, 07:53 PM']I would be discovered as a sham when it becomes apparent that I buy amps according to the colour of the "on" light[/quote]

shhh.. i do that too! pretty blue lights!

[quote name='Dmanlamius' post='375517' date='Jan 9 2009, 06:43 PM']No-one has the right to be arrogant.[/quote]

in my opinion everyone has a right to arrogance (and anything else for that matter), its how you use it and think of it that can make the difference. exaggerating your skill level in your mind is a powerful mental technique when learning and can remove boundaries of possibility, and avoid mental obstacles created by 'labels' (e.g: 'beginner'). as AM said - everyone has their own preferred way of learning and receiving information, so i'm not suggesting it works for everyone.


a forum category which covers the basics, and 'FAQs' would be helpful, and its really good to see so many people up for getting involved in a mentory kind of way

[Dmanlamius]

[quote name='mewsie' post='375571' date='Jan 9 2009, 08:34 PM']shhh.. i do that too! pretty blue lights!



in my opinion everyone has a right to arrogance (and anything else for that matter), its how you use it and think of it that can make the difference. exaggerating your skill level in your mind is a powerful mental technique when learning and can remove boundaries of possibility, and avoid mental obstacles created by 'labels' (e.g: 'beginner'). as AM said - everyone has their own preferred way of learning and receiving information, so i'm not suggesting it works for everyone.


a forum category which covers the basics, and 'FAQs' would be helpful, and its really good to see so many people up for getting involved in a mentory kind of way [/quote]

Oh, yea I agree 100%. I didn't mean in "that" way, though. I meant it more in the sticky nose up way.

Visualisation is a great tool for learning. It's funny you should mention that, because i'm writing a book about it at the moment. I've studied a lot of martial arts on my travels as well as played a lot of bass, and I noticed a massive similarities in how we learn both (scales equating kata's, etc) Mostly with how the mind effects our physical bodies...

I used to visualize playing the perfect gig, the night before a gig, just before drifting off to sleep. The results were amazing. I also started teaching other bands that were on the road with us, also with brilliant results. I'm now writing these techniques down for other people to benefit from. It's very, very interesting stuff!

[josh3184]

[quote name='Dmanlamius' post='375581' date='Jan 9 2009, 07:46 PM']Oh, yea I agree 100%. I didn't mean in "that" way, though. I meant it more in the sticky nose up way.

Visualisation is a great tool for learning. It's funny you should mention that, because i'm writing a book about it at the moment. I've studied a lot of martial arts on my travels as well as played a lot of bass, and I noticed a massive similarities in how we learn both (scales equating kata's, etc) Mostly with how the mind effects our physical bodies...

I used to visualize playing the perfect gig, the night before a gig, just before drifting off to sleep. The results were amazing. I also started teaching other bands that were on the road with us, also with brilliant results. I'm now writing these techniques down for other people to benefit from. It's very, very interesting stuff![/quote]

sounds interesting man, look forward to reading about it

[josh3184]

incidentally, doesn't the Wiki section cover most of what a beginners forum would do?

[AM1]

[quote name='LWTAIT' post='375468' date='Jan 9 2009, 06:00 PM']i gotta say im coming round to the idea very slightly after reading dmanlamius' first reply. i've not noticed many of the things he says he has noticed, such as questions being unanswered and snobbery, but then, i was a member of bassworld and have been a member on here for a long time, maybe i'm used to it? i might even be one of those snobs, but i definatly try not to be. if he says he's noticed it, i dont doubt he has. i've been looking at basschat from a beginners point of view since i read this thread, and to be honest i can see how it could sort of lower your confidence being surrounded by so many talented players. i still stand by the comments i made before, but i'm seeing why you would be for it and theres a part of me that agrees.[/quote]

I admire and respect your objectivity and it was very decent of you to post your changing views.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='375534' date='Jan 9 2009, 06:57 PM']I'm glad you said that, I was getting a horrible vision of the blind leading the blind...[/quote]

In the valley of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='375534' date='Jan 9 2009, 06:57 PM']What could be quite useful in the sense of a beginner forum is that we're not all equally well rounded bass players and some who are very experienced at playing bass may be relative beginners at certain facets of bass playing and could thus benefit from an environment where that facet can be addressed from the most basic level. For instance I'm incredibly slow at reading music and not much cop at jazz thangs like walking and soloing but on the flipside in the musical scenarios I normally create I'm the baddest of badasses. It doesn't feel that long ago that I was starting out (ok, twelve years isn't exactly last week) but I can still remember so many things that seemed so hard which I can do in my sleep now.[/quote]

It is growingly increasingly obvious that it is not just absolute beginners, whom will benefit from a new players/beginners section.


[quote name='Dmanlamius' post='375581' date='Jan 9 2009, 07:46 PM']Visualisation is a great tool for learning. It's funny you should mention that, because i'm writing a book about it at the moment. I've studied a lot of martial arts on my travels as well as played a lot of bass, and I noticed a massive similarities in how we learn both (scales equating kata's, etc) Mostly with how the mind effects our physical bodies...

I used to visualize playing the perfect gig, the night before a gig, just before drifting off to sleep. The results were amazing. I also started teaching other bands that were on the road with us, also with brilliant results. I'm now writing these techniques down for other people to benefit from. It's very, very interesting stuff![/quote]

Agreed - visualisation is an incredibly powerful tool, I use it often myself. Dmanlamius, you made a number of useful points regarding the perspectives of beginners and how easily they can lose confidence and give up. Unfortunately, I have to agree, this is a known phenomenon in some of my other hobbies and I have seen new beginners walk away from an initial time and money investment and give up, as a direct consequence of comments made by those more experienced in certain disciplines.

Elitism and snobbery have no place in music and not everyone is fortunate enough to have access to the same resources, such as private lessons, for example. Expediting a beginner's forum here can only be of benefit to those persons, as well as many more experienced players and will strengthen the community, by facilitating pupil/mentor relationships and encouraging interaction.

I am working on learning the fretboard at the moment and have found some extremely useful resources. There is no reason why a Wiki or a beginner's forum can't have a section to encompass these resources, or indeed a set of fretboard diagrams. There are already multitudes of questions, if one searches, from new players asking how to learn the fretboard.

A beginner's section is undoubtedly something that needs to be an integral part of the forum.

A number of people have volunteered to assist in the mentoring/moderating capacity and I am certainly prepared to contribute as many resources and reviews as possible since I am on the learning curve. It will save others so much time in locating valuable information and I would like to share the benefit of my research, to assist others.

Regards

AM

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='AM1' post='375646' date='Jan 9 2009, 09:08 PM']It is growingly increasingly obvious that it is not just absolute beginners, whom will benefit from a new players/beginners section.

Expediting a beginner's forum here can only be of benefit to those persons, as well as many more experienced players and will strengthen the community, by facilitating pupil/mentor relationships and encouraging interaction.

A beginner's section is undoubtedly something that needs to be an integral part of the forum.

A number of people have volunteered to assist in the mentoring/moderating capacity and I am certainly prepared to contribute as many resources and reviews as possible since I am on the learning curve. It will save others so much time in locating valuable information and I would like to share the benefit of my research, to assist others.[/quote]

+1

There's some very interesting stuff being talked about in this discussion, so if that is any indication of how stimulating and interesting a Beginner's Forum could be, then I think it can only be a good thing..

[AM1]

[quote name='mewsie' post='375571' date='Jan 9 2009, 07:34 PM']exaggerating your skill level in your mind is a powerful mental technique when learning and can remove boundaries of possibility, and avoid mental obstacles created by 'labels' (e.g: 'beginner'). as AM said - everyone has their own preferred way of learning and receiving information, so i'm not suggesting it works for everyone.[/quote]

Hey mewsie

I've found that after a few medicinal sherries, my skill level, in my mind at least, increases exponentially!

Mehehe.

I don't want to sound like a hippie but the vibe on this thread is Soooooo positive and there is muchos support amongst beginners and experienced alike, for a beginner's forum.

Ped, my work here is done.

Your serve

C'mon man, let's make it happen!!

Bring it on!!

[escholl]

I would just like to add my support for this as well, I actually think it could be a really good idea. Well done AM1


That, and it'll be nice to occasionally deal with people who don't already know everything.

[Eight]

As I am a beginner (no problem with being referred to as one) and a BC newbie, I thought I'd post to express an opinion. Well actually, I'm going to quote from page 1 as it sums up what I'm worried about.

[quote name='mewsie' post='373972' date='Jan 8 2009, 01:11 PM']however, will as many experienced players also be hanging around in there to answer them?[/quote]
I've seen this happen on other non-bass forums. People with the real knowledge and experience don't learn or find anything interesting in the "beginners" section and so stop visiting, then the only people left to answer questions are other beginners. No disrespect to other beginners, but what we know (or think we know) needs to be balanced with the opinions of the more experienced.

I can appreciate its sometimes intimidating for beginners to post in the main forums; and I can also appreciate it might be tiresome for you pros to read the same basic questions over and over. But by being able to ask a question to the whole of BC, it gets a more comprehensive exposure; and the more experienced players who might not actively go looking to impart their wisdom often seem to read these threads and can't help posting. From what I've seen this results in a lot of useful info and discussion.

This forum is currently great for beginners; one of the best I've seen in way too many years of being a web forums user.

[Tait]

[quote name='Eight' post='376309' date='Jan 10 2009, 05:53 PM']As I am a beginner (no problem with being referred to as one) and a BC newbie, I thought I'd post to express an opinion. Well actually, I'm going to quote from page 1 as it sums up what I'm worried about.


I've seen this happen on other non-bass forums. People with the real knowledge and experience don't learn or find anything interesting in the "beginners" section and so stop visiting, then the only people left to answer questions are other beginners. No disrespect to other beginners, but what we know (or think we know) needs to be balanced with the opinions of the more experienced.

I can appreciate its sometimes intimidating for beginners to post in the main forums; and I can also appreciate it might be tiresome for you pros to read the same basic questions over and over. But by being able to ask a question to the whole of BC, it gets a more comprehensive exposure; and the more experienced players who might not actively go looking to impart their wisdom often seem to read these threads and can't help posting. From what I've seen this results in a lot of useful info and discussion.

This forum is currently great for beginners; one of the best I've seen in way too many years of being a web forums user.[/quote]

well said.

[Adrenochrome]

Well, in some ways I'm a fairly experienced player - yet in other ways I'm really a beginner (never had lessons, probably very sloppy technique). I would regularly read a beginners' forum. Having quite a bit of gigging and some recording experience I reckon I'd contribute in areas where I could (eg budget gear good enough for gigging).

[Monz]

[quote name='mewsie' post='375571' date='Jan 9 2009, 07:34 PM']shhh.. i do that too! pretty blue lights!



in my opinion everyone has a right to arrogance (and anything else for that matter), its how you use it and think of it that can make the difference. exaggerating your skill level in your mind is a powerful mental technique when learning and can remove boundaries of possibility, and avoid mental obstacles created by 'labels' (e.g: 'beginner'). as AM said - everyone has their own preferred way of learning and receiving information, so i'm not suggesting it works for everyone.


a forum category which covers the basics, and 'FAQs' would be helpful, and its really good to see so many people up for getting involved in a mentory kind of way [/quote]

Will you be my mentor lol

[AM1]

[quote name='Adrenochrome' post='376395' date='Jan 10 2009, 07:38 PM']Well, in some ways I'm a fairly experienced player - yet in other ways I'm really a beginner (never had lessons, probably very sloppy technique). I would regularly read a beginners' forum. Having quite a bit of gigging and some recording experience I reckon I'd contribute in areas where I could (eg budget gear good enough for gigging).[/quote]

'Lo

I'd be well interested in your comments on budget gear for gigging, especially ampage

PM is fine if that's easier.

[aceuggy]

[quote name='Eight' post='376309' date='Jan 10 2009, 05:53 PM']As I am a beginner (no problem with being referred to as one) and a BC newbie, I thought I'd post to express an opinion. Well actually, I'm going to quote from page 1 as it sums up what I'm worried about.


I've seen this happen on other non-bass forums. People with the real knowledge and experience don't learn or find anything interesting in the "beginners" section and so stop visiting, then the only people left to answer questions are other beginners. No disrespect to other beginners, but what we know (or think we know) needs to be balanced with the opinions of the more experienced.

I can appreciate its sometimes intimidating for beginners to post in the main forums; and I can also appreciate it might be tiresome for you pros to read the same basic questions over and over. But by being able to ask a question to the whole of BC, it gets a more comprehensive exposure; and the more experienced players who might not actively go looking to impart their wisdom often seem to read these threads and can't help posting. From what I've seen this results in a lot of useful info and discussion.

This forum is currently great for beginners; one of the best I've seen in way too many years of being a web forums user.[/quote]

As a beginner I go along with this. It's good that beginners can share ideas and help each other, but to pick the experienced members brains as well is invaluable. I haven't as yet come across anyone on this site who has dissed me for being a beginner. I have only received positive comments and help.

[escholl]

[quote name='Eight' post='376309' date='Jan 10 2009, 05:53 PM']I've seen this happen on other non-bass forums. People with the real knowledge and experience don't learn or find anything interesting in the "beginners" section and so stop visiting, then the only people left to answer questions are other beginners.[/quote]

Well, I enjoy teaching, so yes, I would regularly visit.

I can only speak for myself though, and I'm not as nearly as experienced as some. Still, I can't imagine I'm the only one who feels this way, so my guess would be that a fair few of us would hang out in that section.

[truebassman]

AM1
I see BassChat as a forum for Bass Players period.
Forget the term 'beginner' or 'intermediate' or 'advanced'. We are ALL THE SAME !
YOU are no longer a 'beginner'.
The best way to stop 'feeling like a beginner' is doing some practice, then you feel immediately better.
I agree it is important for beginners to communicate with each other. But, you can already do this at present through this forum.

TIP: Don't self -analyse, just ENJOY your bass playing whatever.

If you ENJOY it, you will get better.
If you don't ENJOY it, you should stop playing ?

If you are still frustrated, why not start your own Beginners Bass Forum ? I wish you luck.

[crez5150]

+ 1 for the above.... we are all learning.... just some of us are further advanced than others.... nothing wrong with just starting out!!

[escholl]

[quote name='truebassman' post='376430' date='Jan 10 2009, 08:44 PM']We are ALL THE SAME ![/quote]
Except when it comes to experience. Which you can't share, if you don't have.

[quote]If you are still frustrated, why not start your own Beginners Bass Forum ? I wish you luck.[/quote]
See above in relation to experience. How would a new forum, comprised only of people with no experience, solve this problem?

[Eight]

I think AM's suggestion was more from an organisational standpoint than a conceptual grading of people's abilities. i.e. a forum for beginner/basic/elementary/core [b]content[/b] rather than beginner or basic [i]players[/i] etc.

I would still say no (if this was a vote) but I don't think its introduction would actually unfairly label anyone.

Edited January 10, 2009 by Eight

[mewsie]

[quote name='Monz' post='376406' date='Jan 10 2009, 07:45 PM']Will you be my mentor lol [/quote]

[mewsie]

[quote name='AM1' post='375707' date='Jan 9 2009, 10:28 PM']I've found that after a few medicinal sherries, my skill level, in my mind at least, increases exponentially! [/quote]

that happens to me after 12 green teas.


eight - you speak wise words.