silverfoxnik Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 [quote name='mewsie' post='376557' date='Jan 11 2009, 12:48 AM']eight - you speak wise words.[/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Interesting stuff. I am still not sure myself. I think a beginners section 'library' sounds like a better idea, depending on the quantity/quality of these resources you mention. I don't really like the idea of a separate area for 'noobs' like other forums I visit. I don't like the way it divides people up. We have never had one before and never had any problems with the current format. Too many forums gets a bit much and our discussions are free ranging and cross curricular... With the volume of posts every day I think a lot of people use the 'view new posts' feature rather than going from 'room to room' as it were so these beginner forum posts would still appear for everyone anyway which kind of defeats the point IMO. Cheers ped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennysFord Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) I'm a room to room guy and to be honest i dont really see it as being a "noob" section as such,more of a resource for learning about playing, gear,gigging etc.I may be wrong here but it seems the more experienced among us are the one's that think it's unnecessary.Personally i doubt very much that it would divide the forum at all but then that's just me. edit, +1 on the current format but not having something like this before is'nt really a reason not to have one in the future. Why not trial it for a while and if it doesnt work out close it.At the end of the day it's easy to set up and i'm sure that there'll be plenty of folks who'd be happy to moderate it. Edited January 11, 2009 by kennyrodg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 [quote name='ped' post='376633' date='Jan 11 2009, 10:24 AM']With the volume of posts every day I think a lot of people use the 'view new posts' feature...[/quote] Never noticed that... Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 [quote name='kennyrodg' post='376667' date='Jan 11 2009, 11:22 AM']I'm a room to room guy and to be honest i dont really see it as being a "noob" section as such,more of a resource for learning about playing, gear,gigging etc.I may be wrong here but it seems the more experienced among us are the one's that think it's unnecessary.Personally i doubt very much that it would divide the forum at all but then that's just me. edit, +1 on the current format but not having something like this before is'nt really a reason not to have one in the future. Why not trial it for a while and if it doesnt work out close it.At the end of the day it's easy to set up and i'm sure that there'll be plenty of folks who'd be happy to moderate it.[/quote] Hi mate, Sorry, I didn't mean 'noob' but meant that on other forums the beginner's area is usually used by people referred to as 'noobs' which is the kind of environment I want to avoid having on BC. I think a reference section would be a good idea but not sure about a separate forum. AM1 if you could PM me a list of the resources etc you wish to post, I will lok through them and decide, based on their quantity/quality/accessibility/format etc what is the best way of presenting them on the site. I agree the WIKI isn't much use because lots of people don't notice it or know how to use it (I included to a large extent) but a beginners section full of these resources sounds like a better idea. Other people have summed up my own views far more eloquently than I could in so far as the section would be a useful resource with beginner content but I don't think beginners should be worried about posting basic questions in any of the current sections. I will discuss it with Kiwi when we next touch bases but personally I would vote no, too. Cheers ped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggenpuss Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 [quote name='Adrenochrome' post='376395' date='Jan 10 2009, 07:38 PM']Well, in some ways I'm a fairly experienced player - yet in other ways I'm really a beginner (never had lessons, probably very sloppy technique). I would regularly read a beginners' forum. Having quite a bit of gigging and some recording experience I reckon I'd contribute in areas where I could (eg budget gear good enough for gigging).[/quote] +1 to that. I've been playiing on and off for 20-odd years but I've learned more form Basschat and Youtube in the last few months than from anywhere else in all that time. It does take some searching for in the threads but the info is usually all there. Having some basic stuff all bundled together either as a beginner's forum or more comprehensive Wiki would be great and as Adrenochrome points out details on budget gear good enough for gigging would be of help to more than those who are just starting out. My desires are high-end but my budget is definitely at the other end of the scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 * To skirt the terminological minefield ('noob', beginner, born-again etc), * To acknowledge the view that most of us are still on the journey * To optimise 'signposting' for new arrivals May I suggest any new forum, resource, Wiki or whatever be titled 'Learning' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tait Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 can we not just do a poll and vote on it? at least thats a quick and easy way to show whether people want one, rather than having to trawl through everyones opions and having to count them. i'm not saying the poll should be a decider, thats the mods or admins or whoevers job, but at least then they know fairly simply whether the vast majority of us want it or not. oh, and i'm a room to room guy, to. i don't use the view new posts tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 A poll wouldn't give a balanced outcome because only those interested in a topic entitled 'Beginner forum' will cast a vote. I will wait to see what AM1 sends me and have a think. A reference section with resources/links and so forth is a good plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='376777' date='Jan 11 2009, 02:02 PM']* To skirt the terminological minefield ('noob', beginner, born-again etc), * To acknowledge the view that most of us are still on the journey * To optimise 'signposting' for new arrivals May I suggest any new forum, resource, Wiki or whatever be titled 'Learning'[/quote] That's quite a nice idea... Given the polarisation of opinion on this topic, I think a Poll would be useful to get a sense of how a larger number of different people think, not just those who are actively joining in with this debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apex Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='377160' date='Jan 11 2009, 09:21 PM']That's quite a nice idea... Given the polarisation of opinion on this topic, I think a Poll would be useful to get a sense of how a larger number of different people think, not just those who are actively joining in with this debate.[/quote] +1 on that. As one of these much-discussed beginners I'd support a poll but it would have to be clear what it was we were voting on, 'cos there's lots of different ideas flying around this excellent thread! I'd vote for a forum area covering basic topics, but I'd hate to think that made it impossible to ask questions in the main area as well until I'd become 'experienced' (in what??!). I'd also like to see the Wiki expanded - it was a Google search pointing me at the Wiki that found me the site in the first place, and I've learned soooo much just lurking around for a few weeks! Thanks guys and gals! Those of you with the patience have so much to offer. Those of you who haven't, well never mind. No one's paying you to play nursemaid after all! At least you'd know which room to avoid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Something that's always bugged me is how theory and technique is such a mislabelled backwater - "for those who like to push the boundaries"??? "For those who'd like to learn" would be a much better statement. A sub-forum that is really centred on developing your bass playing would be a great thing and maybe a 'beginner/learning' rebranding would be a good move for pushing more traffic towards "theory and technique". It may appear that I spend all my time talking about gear but I'm a big advocate of really getting deep into what bass playing is about and I spent much of my early time on the web and forums hunting for the hows and whys of being a bassist. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='378276' date='Jan 12 2009, 09:23 PM']Something that's always bugged me is how theory and technique is such a mislabelled backwater - "for those who like to push the boundaries"??? "For those who'd like to learn" would be a much better statement. A sub-forum that is really centred on developing your bass playing would be a great thing and maybe a 'beginner/learning' rebranding would be a good move for pushing more traffic towards "theory and technique". It may appear that I spend all my time talking about gear but I'm a big advocate of really getting deep into what bass playing is about and I spent much of my early time on the web and forums hunting for the hows and whys of being a bassist. Alex[/quote] +1 Again, wise words Alex! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I think my own views reflect those of Eight, Alex and Ped. When I read AM's initial post, my first thought was that a beginners' sub-forum wouldn't get far if it didn't have experienced people in it. Rebranding Theory and Technique as Learning for All (or something like that so it's not exclusive to beginners) would help. Gear advice is another question, if you ask n BCers for an opinion then you'll get a minimum of n+1 opinions, at least 50% of which will be entirely unsuitable to the requirement or cost at least twice as much as the stated budget, so I don't see that there would be any advantage in having a beginners' bit for that. If the current gear and technical forums aren't ideal for beginners in AM's view, perhaps she could give pointers to what she would actually want from a beginners' section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I am still waiting for these 'resources' too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 (edited) [quote name='truebassman' post='376430' date='Jan 10 2009, 08:44 PM']AM1 I see BassChat as a forum for Bass Players period. Forget the term 'beginner' or 'intermediate' or 'advanced'. We are ALL THE SAME ![/quote] This is simply not the case. There are a wide variance of experience and skill levels on the forum, just as with any other activity. [quote name='truebassman' post='376430' date='Jan 10 2009, 08:44 PM']YOU are no longer a 'beginner'. The best way to stop 'feeling like a beginner' is doing some practice, then you feel immediately better.[/quote] I have been playing bass for around a month and am quite categorically, a beginner. [quote name='truebassman' post='376430' date='Jan 10 2009, 08:44 PM']I agree it is important for beginners to communicate with each other. But, you can already do this at present through this forum.[/quote] The whole premise of a beginner's forum is to strengthen beginner/mentor relationships and enable beginners to share their experiences and interact. So far, using the wider forum, only one person has communicated with me and identified themselves as a beginner. [quote name='truebassman' post='376430' date='Jan 10 2009, 08:44 PM']TIP: Don't self -analyse, just ENJOY your bass playing whatever. If you ENJOY it, you will get better. If you don't ENJOY it, you should stop playing ?[/quote] Music is always enjoyable. Asking for an addition to the forum resources is entirely unrelated to "self-analysis". [quote name='truebassman' post='376430' date='Jan 10 2009, 08:44 PM']If you are still frustrated, why not start your own Beginners Bass Forum ? I wish you luck.[/quote] There is no frustration here, just a simple suggestion to create an additional section for those new to the bass to share their experiences and learn from those whom wish to help with a mentorship style approach. A new beginner's bass forum, whilst easy to create, would be pointless as there would be no experienced members there to share the benefit of their experience, but thanks for the suggestion. A simple additional sub-forum here would be optimal. Regards AM Edited January 13, 2009 by AM1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I recently asked a very 'beginner' question and got lots of answers. If I had posted that on a beginners forum, what would the difference be, do you think? Cheers ped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='378276' date='Jan 12 2009, 09:23 PM']Something that's always bugged me is how theory and technique is such a mislabelled backwater - "for those who like to push the boundaries"??? "For those who'd like to learn" would be a much better statement. A sub-forum that is really centred on developing your bass playing would be a great thing and maybe a 'beginner/learning' rebranding would be a good move for pushing more traffic towards "theory and technique". It may appear that I spend all my time talking about gear but I'm a big advocate of really getting deep into what bass playing is about and I spent much of my early time on the web and forums hunting for the hows and whys of being a bassist. Alex[/quote] Alex Excellent points, I agree. Theory and technique should be in a section all on it's own, with the beginner forum in there, along with the tutor forum. The focus of the overall forum is definitely weighted towards gear, with an imbalance in actual discussions of the foundations of playing. I also do room to room but am disappointed time and time again by lack of substantive discussion on development of playing, theory, techniques and the overall fundamentals of improving as a musician. On the other hand, there is lots of useful information about equipment but the balance needs to be redressed. Regards AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 [quote name='tauzero' post='379168' date='Jan 13 2009, 03:29 PM']I think my own views reflect those of Eight, Alex and Ped. When I read AM's initial post, my first thought was that a beginners' sub-forum wouldn't get far if it didn't have experienced people in it. Rebranding Theory and Technique as Learning for All (or something like that so it's not exclusive to beginners) would help. Gear advice is another question, if you ask n BCers for an opinion then you'll get a minimum of n+1 opinions, at least 50% of which will be entirely unsuitable to the requirement or cost at least twice as much as the stated budget, so I don't see that there would be any advantage in having a beginners' bit for that. If the current gear and technical forums aren't ideal for beginners in AM's view, perhaps she could give pointers to what she would actually want from a beginners' section.[/quote] I am playing catch up on recent posts... There appears to be considerable support for a new section in the forum, entitled "Learning" or Player Development or something similar. Within that section, could be sub-forums, i.e. Beginner Section, Theory and Technique, Tutors, etc etc. Regards AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 [quote name='ped' post='379182' date='Jan 13 2009, 03:34 PM']I am still waiting for these 'resources' too...[/quote] Ped I am still waiting for a definitive response on whether or not a dedicated beginner's section will be created, even on a trial basis. It is evident that the Wiki can be expanded and I have given you suggestions in my previous posts for this. Even putting all the suggested resources into a Wiki, doesn't provide what I am asking to be provided, which is a sub-forum, where new players can identify each other, interact and those wish to assist with questions, can do so in a mentoring capacity. I am another room to room person. Regards AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I need to see the resources to weigh up having a forum with them pinned or a reference section or nothing at all, so if you could send them to me, or a list of them that would help us decide. Cheers ped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 [quote name='AM1' post='379510' date='Jan 13 2009, 07:12 PM']Even putting all the suggested resources into a Wiki, doesn't provide what I am asking to be provided, which is a sub-forum, where new players can identify each other, interact and those wish to assist with questions, can do so in a mentoring capacity.[/quote] Are you asking me or telling me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 [quote name='ped' post='379516' date='Jan 13 2009, 07:16 PM']Are you asking me or telling me [/quote] I'm female, what do you think?!!! Coat on, running for the door! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 [quote name='AM1' post='379488' date='Jan 13 2009, 06:56 PM']I have been playing bass for around a month and am quite categorically, a beginner.[/quote] You joined BassChat on 6th December and you have been playing bass [i]for around a month[/i]. Does that mean your first step towards learning to play bass was to join BassChat? This isn't as superficial an enquiry as it may seem. If you joined here in order to learn to play bass from scratch, then that would explain your disappointment in certain areas. *** Stating the obvious alert *** The word "beginner" has different meanings to different people. I picked up a bass for the first time just over three years ago, but I still consider myself a "beginner" and that's not false modesty. *** Alert ends (maybe) *** Your needs in a Beginner's Forum would be quite different from mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Phew! That's that sorted then. Next? ;0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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