PA/Mixer options

[Skinnyman]

In previous bands I’ve always had the dual role of bass player and sound guy. Being an old git. I’ve always gone old school and used a decent powered mixer with passive speakers.

The current band is just about to start gigging and we’re going to need some PA kit and before I start looking at what’s available, I thought I’d check out the BC collective wisdom to see what other options are now open to me (digital mixers and the like) and whether I should be looking at some of the newer technology.

The band is a four/five piece. Acoustic drum kit, lead and backing vocals, guitar, bass and occasional second guitar/keys.

We’ll be playing pubs mainly, maybe the occasional social club.

The primary guitarist has a Headrush board and would want to go from that straight into the PA. The keyboard player (when he’s with us) would also go through the PA. 

I play through a Zoom B3 so could put the bass through the PA - but probably wouldn’t. Ditto drums - there doesn’t seem much point miking up drums for a small pub.

I generally prefer passive speakers for FOH (lighter and don’t require a power supply). I’ve used EV 15’s before - they’re very good and robust but weigh a fair bit so any recommendations for something lighter?

We’ll need monitors - I’m thinking of one of those Mackie Stand mounted monitors for the singer and a couple of side fill monitors for the rest of us. We could look at IEMs but I’m not sure I can convince everyone to use them.

I know that there are a range of digital mixer solutions out there so I’m interested in people’s experience compared to the usual analogue approach - what are the pros and cons?

And power amps? I’ve always run a powered mixer before but if I go the digital route, what power amp(s) should I look at? 

The budget isn’t unlimited and I’d be prepared to buy used - but I also believe in getting the best you can afford as it will pay for itself in the long run.

I should also mention that at my advanced age I’m looking for the lightest, easiest load-in, load-out possible so that kind of rules out 18” subs and the like.... 😁

So - PA system for a small pub band? What would you go for?

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Skinnyman

[thebassist]

I'm very interested in this too.

[Paddy515]

I play in a similar band and at similar venues. Neither myself nor the drummer go through our pa. Both our guitarists mic up their combos and go through pa together with vocals. We use a Yamaha powered mixer, tthree 15" tops and 2 monitors, one top on the floor and  turned towards the crowd centre stage for the mixer to sit on. Does a fine job and no need for anything more.

[jacko]

For pub gigs we use a mackie digital desk and a pair of powered Mackie SRM450s for front of house.  3 mackie thumps for floor monitoring plus a 4th on a stand for the drummer.  Works well for us. I'm not going to tell you to do the same but what I will say is every type of stand mounted vocals monitor I've come across (including mackie) has been crap. 

[Skinnyman]

23 minutes ago, jacko said:

3 mackie thumps for floor monitoring plus a 4th on a stand for the drummer.

Thanks for this - I’ll look into the Mackie digital desk.

I haven’t looked yet but I’m guessing that there is more than one type of Mackie Thump - if so, which do you use for monitoring?

 

[Skinnyman]

1 hour ago, Paddy515 said:

We use a Yamaha powered mixer,

Thanks - sounds similar to the setup we used to use in my previous band. Which Yam powered mixer do you use?

[Kevsy71]

Have played approx 50 pub gigs with a cheerful Behringer mixer/power amp and gear4music 12s with horns plus 2 basic active monitors. Band is vox/bass/keys/drums/sax/rhythm guitar. About £500 including stands.

Vocals and keys only through the PA. If I bring a 1x15 I don't go through the PA, but did when I had a Barefaced 110.

Our golden rules are: must be able to hear vox clearly, and people should be able to hear each other at at least some point in the pub (these aren't music venues as such :))

[PaulWarning]

1 hour ago, Paddy515 said:

I play in a similar band and at similar venues. Neither myself nor the drummer go through our pa. Both our guitarists mic up their combos and go through pa together with vocals. We use a Yamaha powered mixer, tthree 15" tops and 2 monitors, one top on the floor and  turned towards the crowd centre stage for the mixer to sit on. Does a fine job and no need for anything more.

sounds just like what we use a Yam EMX512SC, we have a very loud drummer (the guy at the rehearsal rooms says we're the loudest band that uses them) and it's good enough for nice clear vocals

[Nicko]

Habe just gone through this and ended up with a Behringer XR12 with Mackie Thump 12s for FOH.   The Thump 12s are not overly heavy, and the mixer is ridiculously portable.

We run 3 x vox, acoustic guitar, and bass throuh the PA.  Guitarist hasn't decided which way to jump yet, but we set a channel in the mxer that goes to monitoring only.

Collective wisdom here says I should have got the XR18 because it has loads more monitoring options (ie more aux outs), but it depends how many different mixs you want on the floor monitors.

I have to say the functionality of the XR12 is incredible considering the price.

[Kevsy71]

7 minutes ago, Nicko said:

Collective wisdom here says I should have got the XR18 because it has loads more monitoring options (ie more aux outs), but it depends how many different mixs you want on the floor monitors.

I have to say the functionality of the XR12 is incredible considering the price.

+1, I run an XR18 for an in-house PA and the fact that each player can customise their own mix on the fly is very neat. Plus bags of DSP included. Only downer is that you need a separate power amp, but you could easily rack case a class D amp with the mixer for a light lift.

[slystewart]

I'm also the bass player and in control of the sound and all the problems that came with it  ,old school with mixer on stage  ,sound checks a night mare   and when every thing went wrong with  the PA or monitors all eyes turn to you.

I came across at the time the Mackie DL1608 mixer  using an iPad control surface using Mackie master fader app and it solved all the problems I was having at the time , you can down load the app for free and try it to get use to it once connected to the DL1608   works great

Have moved to the Mackie DL32R  now and its even better ,think they stopped making the 1608  and would highly recommend going down this route  ,it saves space ,easy to use ,easy to read , can use it on stage or out in the floor space to sound check , built in everything  from graphics to effects parametric EQs compression and gates  … hope it helps 

 

[taunton-hobbit]

Others on here know far more about mixers than me, but Behringer seem well thought of-

as for foh speakers, I'd look at Barefaced (natch) and Crown amps - light & loud........

😎

[casapete]

4 hours ago, PaulWarning said:

sounds just like what we use a Yam EMX512SC, we have a very loud drummer (the guy at the rehearsal rooms says we're the loudest band that uses them) and it's good enough for nice clear vocals

I can’t recommend the Yamaha EMX512SC enough. 8 mic inputs, a very loud 2x500 watt output and excellent built in FX and compressors. Really lightweight too, (class D power amps) and doesn’t have a large footprint which is handy in pubs where room is limited. For smaller gigs you can configure one side to run FOH speakers and the other to power monitors too. A pair of decent speakers and you have a great PA for not a lot of dosh. I picked mine up s/h for £150 which is crazy for the quality and spec.

[Skinnyman]

19 minutes ago, casapete said:

I can’t recommend the Yamaha EMX512SC enough. 8 mic inputs, a very loud 2x500 watt output and excellent built in FX and compressors. Really lightweight too, (class D power amps) and doesn’t have a large footprint which is handy in pubs where room is limited. For smaller gigs you can configure one side to run FOH speakers and the other to power monitors too. A pair of decent speakers and you have a great PA for not a lot of dosh. I picked mine up s/h for £150 which is crazy for the quality and spec.

I know the Yam well as that's what we used in the last band. I'd happily get another but i just want to check first to see what digital options there are these days and whether they'll be easier to use.

 

1 hour ago, slystewart said:

Have moved to the Mackie DL32R  now and its even better ,think they stopped making the 1608  and would highly recommend going down this route  ,it saves space ,easy to use ,easy to read , can use it on stage or out in the floor space to sound check , built in everything  from graphics to effects parametric EQs compression and gates  … hope it helps

Thanks - that's really useful. I'll check the Mackie out.

 

1 hour ago, taunton-hobbit said:

Others on here know far more about mixers than me, but Behringer seem well thought of-

as for foh speakers, I'd look at Barefaced (natch) and Crown amps - light & loud........

Ive used Beringer before and they're excellent for the price - they also have a digital mixer which could be worth a look. I have a couple of BF One10s but I'm not sure they have the full range for PA (no tweeters). Certainly light though and worth a try

[Owen]

For clarity, I am selling so I would be all enthusiastic about them

However, I cannot think of a single reason to use a powered mixer and passive speakers these days. Newer active speakers are not super heavy and the digital desks do SO MUCH more than analogue ones ever could. Onboard compression for each channel. More FX than anyone knows what to do with. Programme a mix per song. Give everyone control over their own monitor mixes. Multitrack the gig. Huge EQ possibilities, both on channels and on each output. The list goes on and on.

For good measure, I would buy a Yamaha EAD10 to mic the drums. Expensive, but a set of drum mics will be £200 minimum, add cables, stands and a larger multicore to the mix then it starts to pay it's way. And of course there is the drummer setting up all their audio instead of sound bod doing it. Win/Win.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2019 by owen

[grandad]

Should you be interested I have a Yamaha EMX5 posted for sale on here.

[steve-bbb]

15 hours ago, jacko said:

For pub gigs we use a mackie digital desk and a pair of powered Mackie SRM450s for front of house.  3 mackie thumps for floor monitoring plus a 4th on a stand for the drummer.  Works well for us. I'm not going to tell you to do the same but what I will say is every type of stand mounted vocals monitor I've come across (including mackie) has been crap. 

+1 for the srm450s - kaeep an eye out in the usual places and a pair will pop up for sale soon enough they are fairly popular

the thumps are usable as PA but the 450 have more power and much more clarity - we used 450s with mackie ipad mixer depends how many inputs you need you might get away with 8 - we started with an 8 but being 5/6 piece we needed to swap it out to the 16channel model- plus if anybody in the band decides they want to use in-ears with the mackie ipad mixer they will be able to control their own monitor feed from an iphone/ipad app

[Owen]

SRM450 are nice and beefy. I found mine to be slightly shouty in the hi-mid when pushed hard, but a little eq on the main send of a digital desk tamed that nicely. Digital desks are the bomb. You can also (depending on desk - if I were to need it I would not sell my A&H) eq all the mud out of each and every monitor send just to clean up your onstage sound. In analogue desk world that is a rack of EQ + inset leads + set up time + transport space and weight.

Super duper moulded in ears are lovely ( I am sure) but you can in ear remarkably well with a decent pair of ear buds , a multi channel headphone amp and headphone extension leads. Then you do not need to carry wedges. Then you have a much quieter stage. Then you have a better FOH sound and less setup time and transport space and weight.

I am quite enthusiastic about all this - I cannot think of a single reason to use an analogue desk. There is a reason that their 2nd hand value is through the floor.

[ratman]

I’m a 4 year user of the Mackie DL608.  For anyone new to digital mixing it’s a very simple app learn and use. As already said above, you can download the app (fully featured, not restricted) for free and get to grips with it before you have to buy buy the mixer. 

I’m happy to help anyone that has questions about this mixer & app, just PM me. 

[tauzero]

I found SRM450s made a quite reasonable noise but I had terrible reliability problems with mine. Sold them and bought RCF ART 732s (I think) instead. For some reason, my main band are using the percussionist's Peavey mixer/amp and Behringer passive speakers instead.

[Owen]

1 hour ago, tauzero said:

 For some reason, my main band are using the percussionist's Peavey mixer/amp and Behringer passive speakers instead.

At least that means you are not carrying the PA system and rigging/running it. 

FWIW I depped with a band last night and sold them my  A&H stuff. So I no longer have a vested interest. And I still think the OP should go digital.

[DJpullchord]

Line 6 soundscape

4 proel active speakers

cant remember what the monitors are ( I rarely use them, playing bass)

Everything goes through the desk but me, only occasionally.

 

The sound is very good.

[tauzero]

2 hours ago, owen said:

At least that means you are not carrying the PA system and rigging/running it. 

Which is why I didn't protest. At all.

If we finish up doing more sophisticated gigs than pubs with an audience literally at arm's length then I'll suggest using my gear again.

[Angelus]

Dual bass played and sound guy too, very difficuilt to know what's going on out front, but needs must and we don't get many complaints or critisism.

Line 6 Stagescape desk, so I can run it from my iPad and don't "need" to have it next to me.

LD Maui PA, small but capable for pubs.

Cheap monitors, or in ears normally.

[keeponehandloose]

I was also dubious about active speakers...but I got the Yamaha DXR12s in the end. 700w each .

The built in speaker management beats passive cabs hands down. 

Sometimes add a Dxs12 sub for a bit extra. I kept to a 12" sub for ease of transport .

Mixer is a Soundcraft Ui24r digital affair. More inputs than needed but has the ability to record 20 channels straight onto a memory stick. Handy if you like recording gigs/rehearsals..