Level Meter to become Law?????

[spinynorman]

The e-Petitions site is an experiment in public consultation set up by the Prime Minister's office in 2006. The government does respond to every petition completed, usually with a "yes, but ..." email, but there is no commitment to take them into account in formulating policy. There is also no way of bringing an e-petition formally to the notice of Parliament, unlike a paper petition, which can be presented to the House by an MP during an adjournment debate. Even so, experienced campaigning groups much prefer to get supporters to write to ministers and/or their MP, as that requires the MP to make a personal response and generally gets more notice. In 2007 there was an investigation by the Commons Procedure Select Committee which concluded that an e-petition sponsored by an MP should have the same status as a paper petition, but that doesn't seem to have got any further.

So, regardless of how serious the level meter issue actually is, signing the e-petition is, at best, a waste of time. You'll be in [url="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/19/red_arrows_petition/"]good company[/url], too.

If there's something you're really concerned about, write to your MP or the relevant minister.

[bassicinstinct]

Yes folks - far better [b]not to sign it [/b] just [b]in case it isn't [/b]genuine.

Incredible!!! :wacko: :wacko:

IMHO.

Edited January 12, 2009 by bassicinstinct

[OldGit]

[quote name='spinynorman' post='377988' date='Jan 12 2009, 05:08 PM']The e-Petitions site is an experiment in public consultation set up by the Prime Minister's office in 2006. The government does respond to every petition completed, usually with a "yes, but ..." email, but there is no commitment to take them into account in formulating policy. There is also no way of bringing an e-petition formally to the notice of Parliament, unlike a paper petition, which can be presented to the House by an MP during an adjournment debate. Even so, experienced campaigning groups much prefer to get supporters to write to ministers and/or their MP, as that requires the MP to make a personal response and generally gets more notice. In 2007 there was an investigation by the Commons Procedure Select Committee which concluded that an e-petition sponsored by an MP should have the same status as a paper petition, but that doesn't seem to have got any further.

So, regardless of how serious the level meter issue actually is, signing the e-petition is, at best, a waste of time. You'll be in [url="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/19/red_arrows_petition/"]good company[/url], too.

If there's something you're really concerned about, write to your MP or the relevant minister.[/quote]


If a wise person could draft a letter to send to our MP's that takes into account all the facts then we could all send them in.
Lots of individual letters is generally a [s]bigger irritant[/s] more effectve campaign method.

[Hamster]

I signed on the dotted cyberline - and I do believe in miracles

[Balcro]

Good evening all,

The Licensing Officer replied late this afternoon.

"That's a first to me. Not aware of any imminent review to suggest that all premises would need to have noise limiting equipment.
Will have a look around to see if there are any more rumblings & let you know."

So, that's it. I suspect it will be a long wait.

If there were a petition to require the replacement of all those obsolete cut-off type sound level controllers, I would sign up straight away.

Balcro.

[Musky]

[quote name='bassicinstinct' post='378130' date='Jan 12 2009, 07:23 PM']Yes folks - far better [b]not to sign it [/b] just [b]in case it isn't [/b]genuine.

Incredible!!! :wacko: :wacko:

IMHO. [/quote]

There have been plenty of cogent posts stating the truth of the matter:

The law has been in force for 9 months.
It doesn't make noise control compulsory.
The 70 dB limit is nothing to do with this petition and is quite frankly a red herring.

The only thing incredible is that people are still signing the thing.

Now, I'm off to start a petition against the Government's proposal to limit pub opening hours to 8pm to 10pm...

[bassicinstinct]

[quote name='Musky' post='378344' date='Jan 12 2009, 10:12 PM']There have been plenty of cogent posts stating the truth of the matter:

The law has been in force for 9 months.
It doesn't make noise control compulsory.
The 70 dB limit is nothing to do with this petition and is quite frankly a red herring.

The only thing incredible is that people are still signing the thing.

Now, I'm off to start a petition against the Government's proposal to limit pub opening hours to 8pm to 10pm... [/quote]

I'm well aware that there have been a number of "cogent" posts purporting to state "the truth of the matter", but I remain truly astonished that so many people apparently value their signature so highly that they dare not "waste" it by signing up to a petition which may or may not be 100% kosher/valid/accurate etc etc.

I've repeated this so often now that I'm beginning to bore myself, so I'll have to content myself with the view from the moral high ground, safe in the knowledge that I have done all that I can.

[bluesparky]

signed

[The Funk]

Signed.

Does anyone get the feeling that music is going to become more and more of a rebel outlaw thing in the future, with people having to congregate at secret, unlicensed locations late at night to get a fix?

[birdy]

[quote name='The Funk' post='381553' date='Jan 15 2009, 05:53 PM']Signed.

Does anyone get the feeling that music is going to become more and more of a rebel outlaw thing in the future, with people having to congregate at secret, unlicensed locations late at night to get a fix?[/quote]

Yes I agree. Each day we edge closer to 1984.

[bassicinstinct]

Yep, the inexorable march of the jack boot I'm afraid.

[gafbass02]

signed

[TimR]

[quote name='bassicinstinct' post='378923' date='Jan 13 2009, 12:57 PM']... I remain truly astonished that so many people apparently value their signature so highly that they dare not "waste" it by signing up to a petition which may or may not be 100% kosher/valid/accurate etc etc.[/quote]

As the government record on keeping personal data secret is so good. I'm very happy to have my name, address and email all in one place on a public website, safe in the knowledge that my address won't be shown anywhere. Where do I enter my NI and bank AC details?

[MrT-Bass]

I don't know if this has been mentioned earlier in the posts on the forum but this is an issue that the MU is aware of and they are working to resolve it. (I didn't read all 7 pages ) I've registered my "vote" against it. Not really sure how much notice they take of the petitions but it's worth registering an opinion.

Signed

[Mr. Foxen]

[url="http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051643.htm"]Existing legislation[/url]

Date came into force regarding music venues:
[quote]3. The Regulations provide for transitional periods for the commencement of their operation as follows—

(a) for the music and entertainment sectors only they shall not come into force until 6th April 2008 and the provisions listed for amendment and revocation in regulation 15 and Schedule 3 shall remain in force unaltered until that date (regulations 1(a) and 15(3))[/quote]

Levels:
[quote]Exposure limit values and action values
4. —(1) The lower exposure action values are—

(a) a daily or weekly personal noise exposure of 80 dB (A-weighted); and

( a peak sound pressure of 135 dB (C-weighted).

(2) The upper exposure action values are—

(a) a daily or weekly personal noise exposure of 85 dB (A-weighted); and

( a peak sound pressure of 137 dB (C-weighted).

(3) The exposure limit values are—

(a) a daily or weekly personal noise exposure of 87 dB (A-weighted); and

( a peak sound pressure of 140 dB (C-weighted).

(4) Where the exposure of an employee to noise varies markedly from day to day, an employer may use weekly personal noise exposure in place of daily personal noise exposure for the purpose of compliance with these Regulations.

(5) In applying the exposure limit values in paragraph (3), but not in applying the lower and upper exposure action values in paragraphs (1) and (2), account shall be taken of the protection given to the employee by any personal hearing protectors provided by the employer in accordance with regulation 7(2).[/quote]

No requirement for electronic limiter installation mentioned.

[crez5150]

Yes but this is for Existing legislation..... not future..

[bumnote]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='382233' date='Jan 16 2009, 12:12 PM'][url="http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051643.htm"]Existing legislation[/url]

Date came into force regarding music venues:

Levels:

No requirement for electronic limiter installation mentioned.[/quote]

I really dont understand why there is such sceptism about this.

Legislation rarely tells you how to comply.


Scenario
Venue Official

I have to make sure our venue complies with the legislation, [The upper exposure action values are—
(a) a daily or weekly personal noise exposure of 85 dB (A-weighted);] I have no idea what any of it really means in the real world but I dont want to get PERSONALLY sued under H&S law, and I dont want to get in the s...

H&S or other competent [or not competent person]
Easy Mate, fit a noise limiter and it will cover your arse
.

[jonsmith]

A small update on this matter, courtesy of the NME:


[url="http://www.nme.com/news/various-artists/42188"]NME - Noise Levels Petition[/url]

In my opinion, the pointless signing of hoax or misinformed petitions detracts from the impact that could be made by legitimate ones. That's why I witheld my signature from this one.

Edited January 21, 2009 by jonsmith

[bremen]

SIGNED

















[u]http://www.nme.com/news/various-artists/42188[/u]




...only kidding ;-)

[budget bassist]

Ok so we got carried away, but i'd rather i signed it and it turned out not be true than not have signed it and have it happen.
I'm sure i read about it somewhere though... oh well.

And as for that legislation mr foxen posted, jesus.... 135DB would probably (literally) deafen you, 140DB would be ridiculous!

[bassicinstinct]

[b]"Ok so we got carried away, but i'd rather i signed it and it turned out not be true than not have signed it and have it happen.
I'm sure i read about it somewhere though... oh well."[/b]


My point exactly.

[Mr. Foxen]

Asa government minister, I know that 64000 people will sign an entirely spurious, totally unfounded petition without doing the most basic of research on a highly dubious claim. Therefore I know that 64000 signature can cheerfully be ignored as essentially valueless.

The information is out there, do your research, dubious things get through because people don't take the time to look.

[bassicinstinct]

Warms the cockles of you heart doesn't it? lOL

[Andyalfa]

Signed it yesterday. Was going to post it on here today, but I see I'm way too late.

Deadline is 23rd Jan apparently, so tell as many people as quickly as you can. Not that these clowns will take any notice. It's not an election year. I hate politicians, any politicians, now matter what party!

Edited January 22, 2009 by Andyalfa

[bremen]

[quote name='Andyalfa' post='388250' date='Jan 22 2009, 09:48 AM']Signed it yesterday. Was going to post it on here today, but I see I'm way too late.

Deadline is 23rd Jan apparently, so tell as many people as quickly as you can. Not that these clowns will take any notice. It's not an election year. I hate politicians, any politicians, now matter what party![/quote]

[url="http://www.nme.com/news/various-artists/42188"]http://www.nme.com/news/various-artists/42188[/url]