missis sumner Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) ...is there any way, as a band to recover? Sometimes it's the guitarist, sometimes drummer (don't think I start any songs ). If I try to correct it, I find myself and my drummer yo-yoing around the correct tempo, otherwise it's a case of dragging everything and feeling artificial, if it's too slow, or if we're slightly fast it feels manic to me, to the point where it's all I can think about and I forget where I am in the song... Edited November 1, 2019 by missis sumner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 You can either stop the song and restart in the right tempo, or take the tempo up or down during the song. It's never pretty but if continuing in the wrong tempo is unacceptable you can make either way work. I know a couple of drummers who have a digital metronome, one on his phone, so they can count in at the right speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missis sumner Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 Maybe we all need a click track... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky 4000 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 It seems like quite a problem for you. It's a horrible feeling trying to influence others to adjust their tempo during a performance, and once it's playing out wrong, it's harder to gauge exactly where it should be... then as you say, with thinking about that, it's easy to forget where you are in the song. Is communication generally good within the band? I wonder if you're all on the same page about what the tempos of your songs should be... and whether it's something for the band to work on. How does the tempo thing compare at rehearsals vs playing live? I'm sure it's common for bands to tend to rush through the set with the adrenaline boost of being on stage. Then perhaps being aware of that on the first few songs, a player may then start one off too slowly in an attempt to redress the balance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 My opinion - if the band has a drummer/percussionist then it's their job to set the tempo. Everyone else should lock in with his/her timing. My experience - most drummers/percussionists are pretty good at keeping time and it's something that one gets better at with practice/experience. A few are spot-on every tune and make life so much easier. Some members just don't seem to have 2 ears on stage, one for themselves and one for everything else that's going on. A few carefully chosen words can often lead to a tantrum. Trying to correct/speed up or slow down, mid tune, can be disastrous. Some tunes seem to naturally speed up and that's OK if all keep together. Some folk just get nervous and speed up. A tight band always sound good and practice makes perfect. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 I was in a band with a drummer who was not a good tempo keeper. If the guitar or bass started a song he'd kick in 10-20 bpm faster... I'd often have to signal him to slow down. Or if he wasn't paying attention I'd have to simplify the bass line, as 20 bpm was too fast for a busy one. We also often had words about it after the gig and during rehearsal. Rehearsals weren't too bad, but he got nervous and pumped full of adrenaline at gigs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, grandad said: My opinion - if the band has a drummer/percussionist then it's their job to set the tempo. Everyone else should lock in with his/her timing. It’s whoever starts the song that sets the tempo and everyone’s job to keep time. If a song has to change tempo then anyone should be able to do it. It’s all about communication. If everyone is following a stubborn drummer then the song won’t breathe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnyman Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Our drummer has some phone app thing which tracks the actual tempo he's playing at and he uses that to make sure he's playing -broadly - in time. It's early days with this band but it seems to work. There've been a couple of occasions when the guitarist has queried the tempo and the drummer's just pointed at the trace line on the app. Discussion closed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTravis Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Our drummer runs an earpiece for certain tunes, others we allow variance but usually sit around the same. we record all rehearsals and discuss tempos, if somethings off we use the click at the next rehearsal. but our guy is very good and in rehearsal will stop or change/signal if it’s not right. Its about to be firmed up though as he’s going to be triggering samples which will require timings to be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBass Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Our drummer has a tendency to play songs slightly too slowly. Even the songs I start (at the correct tempo) seem to slow down slightly once he comes in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldslapper Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 I don’t mind so much if a song starts too fast or too slow, it’s not great, but it’s better than my pet hate of a drummer slowing down gradually through a song. Not the deliberate act of correcting tempo and maintains it, but usually due to a lack of concentration, boredom or stamina, unacceptable! 🤬 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 the drummer sets the tempo, I've played with drummers that slow down , a nightmare, (speeding up is not so bad, for me anyway) but you have to go with them otherwise it gets very messy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 The level of influence you have often depends on the makeup of the band. If it's just three instruments (guitar, bass, drums being the usual example), then as long as you're audible, you have a chance to take control. I've played in bands where everyone's been perfectly good at playing in time with each other, but the drummer's had a tendency to tense up a bit - whether due to stage fright, or "mic fright" in the studio - and they've counted songs in far too fast, or been playing ahead of the beat. In these circumstances, you play a bit harder, maybe simplify the bassline a bit if necessary, and really emphasise where the accents should be. Almost, if you like, play passive-aggressively behind the beat, and if the drummer's actually listening to everyone around them, they will fall in line. It's easy to blame drummers, but they aren't solely responsible for the tempo of a song. Nor should they get the final say over it! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 16 minutes ago, EliasMooseblaster said: The level of influence you have often depends on the makeup of the band. Without a doubt. I spent 10 years in a band with a drummer who tried to play everything too fast. It was hard work holding the tempo down. One gig was so bad that I gave up and went with the flow. By the end of the song the singer was glaring at him as she couldn’t sing any of the words. It wasn’t until I did a few dep gigs that I found out how proper musicians play. I left the band pretty soon after. Although I played a dep gig last month where the drummer was speeding up in a lot of songs towards the end of the gig. I put that down to his age and getting tired as he’s normally spot on and it was fine in the first half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_lefty Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 My drummer has a tendency to speed up and slow down, and if the lead guitarist counts us in then half the time the tempo will be wrong. We are quite well rehearsed as a unit so we can rescue a lot of songs by either changing the feel or finding a point to kick up or down a gear without having to give nods and winks but sometimes it is just too much to recover from. We have at gigs had to stop and start again which is really, really crappy. We also in rehearsal agree who counts us in for each song. It's admirable that the guitarist wants to eliminate dead time and get us from song to sing quickly but he shouldn't be counting in some of the songs at all and we have made that known. The drummer wants us to play to a click track but I don't. I like the feeling that it could all fall apart any minute, I like having to listen to what's going on and react, I've never played to a click but I'm concerned it could take the raw edge off things for my band at least and I don't want to have to have in-ears, mainly due to cost. I'm probably completely wrong, there's nothing wrong with just playing at a constant tempo per song, but there's something about it I'm just not sold on... Yet. But you don't know if you've never tried, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Seems like a lot of people are putting up with a drummer who can't keep time! That is like a guitarist who can't tune up or a singer who can't sing. Before you do any more rehearsing you have to sort that problem out. Being in time is part of their craft, so drummers speeding up or slowing down can't be tolerated. It doesn't sound good, it makes the whole band look bad and wastes all the effort of the other band members. I would fire any drummer who doesn't have a good sense of time. I'm lucky, this isn't a problem I've encountered in the last 20 years because I haven't played with bad drummers in that time. In bands most of the songs have been counted in by the drummer but I'm playing with a lot of guitarist/band leaders these days, and they tend to count in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 36 minutes ago, uk_lefty said: The drummer wants us to play to a click track but I don't. I like the feeling that it could all fall apart any minute, There's no need for the rest of the band to use a click track. If only the drummer hears the click, he counts in and the rest of the band just play to the tempo set by the drummer. That's a good way of ensuring all tempo's are right. Clicks are used in most west end shows and many big touring bands. When you have learnt to play with one it fades into the background and you don't notice it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Personally I think that everyone in the band has a responsibility to keep time and after being given ‘the stare’ a few times, we bought our Drummer a Tama rhythm watch - to set the tempo that was easy to use. This moved on to a Roland SPD-SX where he can set the programme the tempo for each song, fire samples and run backing tracks. Quite often we set the tempo and then turn off the click – this allow a song to ebb and flow (breath if you will) and to date no one has stopped dancing. We do however often go up our collective exhaust pipe regards tempo and have to fall back on that cliché of ‘does it feel good?’ It’s quite funny that we (the rhythm section) often see the phenomenon of the ‘Mama-mia’* effect where vocalists drop out of time due to incorrect phrasing of a tune that they’re over familiar with. *popular function song from a few years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 24 minutes ago, No lust in Jazz said: Personally I think that everyone in the band has a responsibility to keep time Yep. Everyone should have a good internal clock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sykilz Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Playing in a recent covers band, like most comments above, the drummer started and set probably 80% of the songs, and the guitar 18%, which left our last song which was Motorheads Ace of Spades which I started. I found incredible pleasure adapting the speed up ....or even more up.....depending on how much I wanted the drummer to sweat at the end of a long evening playing 😃 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleat Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Tempo schmempo… if it didn't bother Pink Floyd to speed up in tempo halfway through perhaps their most well known song on one of the world's biggest selling albums of all time...….. just make a feature of it ! 👌 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caitlin Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 There's tempo and there's time. There's pocket and there's feel. There's pace and there's energy. Everyone needs to have internalised time and the only way to truly get that down is to play with metronomes, that's everyone's job. Time is what no-one plays, you can be up the beat, down the beat. The best bands share that common pulse implicitly and perhaps often un-spokenly. It MIGHT line up with the little blinky light on the metronome or it might breathe a little, but if it's not shared then each player pulls in their own direction till it falls apart. Having the drums sitting perfectly on the beat and the bass pushing just slightly, not sped up but early on the beat can give everything a driving energy but with the pace and the beat really solid, right? That's not the bassist trying to speed up, the drummer will never follow, that's the tension built around a shared idea of the silent pulse. I can reliably hit whole notes at 30 bpm without barely thinking about it. I have a metronome with an optional blinkenlight and a little vibraty pad that one can feel in the dark to get a tempo from, and a footswitch to flip to the next programmed tempo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Last Saturday night I was ready to rip into House A Rocking and the bands starts at half the tempo. Absolutely nothing we or I could do. I've mentioned to the BL. Trying to correct the tempo after your already out of the gate can be challenging. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caitlin Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 half tempo to full speed is a nice gimmick though, loads of songs do that, right? some of greenday maybe? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 10 hours ago, Skinnyman said: Our drummer has some phone app thing which tracks the actual tempo he's playing at and he uses that to make sure he's playing -broadly - in time. It's early days with this band but it seems to work. There've been a couple of occasions when the guitarist has queried the tempo and the drummer's just pointed at the trace line on the app. Discussion closed. Dave can you let me know the name of the app? Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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