Berg HG310 - a 112 killer?

[Al Krow]

Jim Bergantino makes some of the finest bass cabs on the planet.

The HG310 looks potentially awesome and at 35 to 36 lbs it's going to be a manageable weight.

For those of us not tempted by IEM, could this be a real boon in allowing us to place the speaker parallel to the PA and the rear facing cab then gets easily heard by bass player and the band, but with no more (and possibly less) boominess via the vocal mics than than a normal cab in typical backline position?

6 ohms is going to hurt my head in working out what load that translates to with my amps. Rule of thumb I understand is that an 8 ohm cab will translate to 60% to 66 ^2/3 % of a 4ohm cab, so I'm guessing that a 6 ohm cab will be around 80% of a 4ohm cab equivalent?

Not cheap, but quality such as this never is and I'm sure I'm not alone in regarding our cabs as being the secret, and some times undervalued, weapon in a great bass sound.

[JohnDaBass]

That's an interesting concept, I wonder how the physics works? I'm not a fan of rear facing ports let alone rear facing speakers. But there must be some clever design work going on to avoid the rear speaker phase cancelling the output of the front facing speakers. These are still a bit heavier than my BF Super Compacts. 

[bassfan]

They do a 412 version to! 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯

[machinehead]

Very interesting.  I wonder what the thinking behind this is?

I would have thought that the rear speaker would have been best mounted near the top of the cab to be closer to your ears?  (That is if the design intends that the bass player stands behind the cab.)

I'd certainly be interested in hearing/playing one.

Frank.

[Al Krow]

21 minutes ago, bassfan said:

They do a 412 version to! 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯

Yup and a 312 too! But it's nearly 50 lbs otherwise I would have, for sure, gravitated to that one instead! 

[andybassdoyle]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Yup and a 312 too! But it's nearly 50 lbs otherwise I would have, for sure, gravitated to that one instead! 

Surely it's more likely you would gravitate to an object with a greater mass? This said I am not a scientist

Edited November 3, 2019 by andybassdoyle

[bassfan]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Yup and a 312 too! But it's nearly 50 lbs otherwise I would have, for sure, gravitated to that one instead! 

I want one!! Don’t need one but I want one. 😂

[jrixn1]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

place the speaker parallel to the PA and the rear facing cab then gets easily heard by bass player and the band, but with no more (and possibly less) boominess via the vocal mics than than a normal cab in typical backline position

I feel a better solution to this specific problem already exists in a floor monitor wedge, which has the advantage of independent volume & eq control.

[Owen]

I get the impression that it is not about standing behind it per se, but shifting more air using a more compact enclosure. 

[Al Krow]

41 minutes ago, andybassdoyle said:

Surely it's more likely you would gravitate to an object with a greater mass? This said I am not a scientist

Correct. I was apparently once someone who knew a bit about this stuff (albeit a few decades ago in my misspent youf when I played a six string).

Tbf this stuff has not really changed at an Earthbound level since that geezer Newton. (Although that Geezer Butler has also produced some  pretty heavy weight stuff). We can work out the impact of the additional gravitational pull of a 312 vs a 310 pretty easily by plugging into a formula...answer below**

 

 

 

 

 

**Ans. = f*** all. 

[Al Krow]

14 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

I feel a better solution to this specific problem already exists in a floor monitor wedge, which has the advantage of independent volume & eq control.

Fair (as ever John!), although it's the point about having to take another piece of kit (another floor monitor) and set it up. On cost grounds your suggestion would be a lot cheaper.

However, I suspect you would get nothing like the quality of bass coming through a floor monitor as compared to the rear speaker from this cab. You will be hearing, I suspect, as close as possible what your audience is hearing. That's potentially a massive plus, no? 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Al Krow

[mark999]

There is  A reason speakers always face forwards.,
 

[jrixn1]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

However, I suspect you would get nothing like the quality of bass coming through a floor monitor as compared to the rear speaker from this cab. You will be hearing, I suspect, as close as possible what your audience is hearing. That's potentially a massive plus, no? 

I suppose it depends on the quality of whichever monitor system you're using.
I know I'm always banging on about my RCF - but other than the volume levels, it does sound pretty much the same as FOH.
I've never used a Bergantino but by all accounts they are of the highest quality. If they made something wedge-shaped I'd certainly at least take a look.

 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, mark999 said:

There is  A reason speakers always face forwards.,

You may be right, and that's kinda the big question mark for me. But is that the same kinda thinking that said there's a reason that all bass amps should be valve amps.

Until they weren't. 

? 

PS and there have been some notable exceptions along the way eg the Schroeder 1212.

51 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

I suppose it depends on the quality of whichever monitor system you're using.
I know I'm always banging on about my RCF - but other than the volume levels, it does sound pretty much the same as FOH.

RCF are great, I agree. Are you using a 310A as your floor monitor? 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Al Krow

[jrixn1]

10 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

RCF are great, I agree. Are you using a 310A as your floor monitor? 

My first choice is in-ears.
Second choice is a 732A as a wedge - so much better than having it behind me. I only put bass through it as I can hear enough of everyone else acoustically or through their monitors.
Last choice is 732A behind me like a traditional bass rig. This is if we need more bass on stage e.g. the guitarist on the other side of the stage forgot his in-ears; or if it's a gig without PA support.

Are you using your 310A as your floor monitor (after you got that sub?)

 

[LukeFRC]

ACME make a cab with forward and rear facing speakers too, a 2x12 I think 

[JakeBrownBass]

4 hours ago, mark999 said:

There is  A reason speakers always face forwards.,
 

Until you set up subs in a cardioid set up to try and ‘control’ low end frequencies that are inherently omnidirectional.

 

I believe this is what this Berg design in trying to do. 

That rear facing speaker is going to create cancellations making the volume behind the cabinet quieter and in turn in front louder.

At the next big you go to, take a look at the sub arrays and see how there are units facing backwards!

 

 

[stevie]

If this were a cardioid design, which is extremely unlikely from its appearance, you'd think that Bergantino would at least mention it in their publicity material. As it is, they don't provide any explanation at all for the rear facing driver. I'd say that @owen has the right idea. They do claim that the cab has a 3D sound. ‘Holo-Graphic’ to be more precise.

Anyone expecting anything technically interesting about this box can probably move on. This is a product of the marketing department IMO.

It's interesting to see that they are now using a compression driver and constant directivity horn instead of the bullet tweeters in their other cabs.

[JakeBrownBass]

7 minutes ago, stevie said:

If this were a cardioid design, which is extremely unlikely from its appearance, you'd think that Bergantino would at least mention it in their publicity material. As it is, they don't provide any explanation at all for the rear facing driver. I'd say that @owen has the right idea. They do claim that the cab has a 3D sound. ‘Holo-Graphic’ to be more precise.

Anyone expecting anything technically interesting about this box can probably move on. This is a product of the marketing department IMO.

It's interesting to see that they are now using a compression driver and constant directivity horn instead of the bullet tweeters in their other cabs.

There will be cancellations behind this cab though whether they want them or not. 

[stevie]

Yes, I agree.

Edited November 3, 2019 by stevie

[Al Krow]

4 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

Are you using your 310A as your floor monitor (after you got that sub?)

Nope, the 310As are our PA speakers. For pub gigs where we are providing the PA, I just use my BF cab as both audience and stage cab - no monitor for the bass. The BF SC has excellent dispersion though, so relatively easy to hear myself.

[Chienmortbb]

12 hours ago, JakeBrownBass said:

There will be cancellations behind this cab though whether they want them or not. 

The real problem is that the effects will be different depending on the phase of the rear firing speaker and things like the the distance between the driver and any wall or large object. That will mean cancellations at random frequencies.

I suspect it would be hard to adjust the sound for different venues. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Chienmortbb

[MOSCOWBASS]

This one looks interesting, would love to try it. Any real world reviews welcome😃

[krispn]

Just read the blurb. They must use the same marketing company as Nordstrand!

“The rear firing 12” speaker provides a sonically charged heavyweight blanket of bass”

“The BigMan emits sonic imposition, ... and kinetic congruousness that encompasses animalistic muscularity and power.”

I guess if they were really that useful they’d be more popular? I know 310’s are out there form a few builders but I’d stick with a 4ohm 212 over a 6ohm 310 I think. 
 

Happy to be proven wrong and who knows maybe it does sound Holographic - whatever that actually translates into on a gig?!?

[Al Krow]

The big fear is holographic = mushy. 

Love to hear one used in anger.