chris_b Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 I think one term that cannot be used for any Bergantino cab is mushy. I have yet to see a bad review or comment about Berg cabs and when I used them the tone in every part of the room was fantastic. There are several manufacturers, Phil Jones, AudioKinesis and Bergantino, with a range of upwards and rear firing drivers and tweeters in their cabs. If designers of this quality think they can get an acceptable and workable upgrade to the sound of a cab by firing drivers in different directions then I'll believe them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSCOWBASS Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Word from Talkbass is it's a bit light in the low end..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 36 minutes ago, chris_b said: I think one term that cannot be used for any Bergantino cab is mushy. I have yet to see a bad review or comment about Berg cabs and when I used them the tone in every part of the room was fantastic. There are several manufacturers, Phil Jones, AudioKinesis and Bergantino, with a range of upwards and rear firing drivers and tweeters in their cabs. If designers of this quality think they can get an acceptable and workable upgrade to the sound of a cab by firing drivers in different directions then I'll believe them. Tbf you will have gathered my views on Berg cabs from the first sentence of this thread and I continue to be a very happy owner of a CN212 which, for me, is right up there amongst the best, if the not the best cab I've ever owned. However, even the very best engineers / designers don't always get everything right and what can seem a good idea on paper can sometimes fall flat in reality, or take several iterations to refine. If this does represent an "upgrade" over purely front facing drivers, I'd jump at the chance of getting one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Al Krow said: However, even the very best engineers / designers don't always get everything right and what can seem a good idea on paper can sometimes fall flat in reality, or take several iterations to refine. True, but in small technology led companies, those products don't make it to market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) On 05/11/2019 at 14:55, chris_b said: True, but in small technology led companies, those products don't make it to market. I'm not convinced...** ** thanks to @andybassdoyle for this C5 pic on a separate filter and synth thread, which was very amusing at the time Edited November 10, 2019 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 He was just ahead of his time.🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 OK, before I start, it's worth saying I've loved every Berg cab I've owned or used. This, however, rather looks like a solution to a problem no-one has asked for...a 3 dimensional soundstage? Good luck positioning that in 90% of real-world venues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 @Bill Fitzmaurice - given that no ones actually played them, and you’re not the biggest fan of bass reflex speakers generally .... what’s your view on this kinda setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 7 hours ago, stevie said: He was just ahead of his time.🙂 Ironically it makes much more sense now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said: Ironically it makes much more sense now. Although undoubtedly an example of a front facing driver, right? 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 9 hours ago, Al Krow said: Although undoubtedly an example of a front facing driver, right? 😁 I suspect rear facing drivers will not be allowed until driverless cabs are allowed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 In answer to the OP, a 3x10 ought to be a 1x12 killer. It shifts a lot more air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 Nice little review by Andy Irvine, albeit of the HG 410 rather than the 310. He's pretty positive about the "holographic" HG model and some pertinent points about sealed (HG) vs ported (HD) offerings. Those of you who are comfortable with the extra weight of the 312 are going to get a bigger sound still, which I suspect will be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) On 05/11/2019 at 13:41, krispn said: I guess if they were really that useful they’d be more popular? I know 310’s are out there form a few builders but I’d stick with a 4ohm 212 over a 6ohm 310 I think. That's fair. I appreciate it's got nothing to do with the sound, but carting a 210 sized cabinet is surprisingly easier than a 212 up / down stairs and in and out of the rear seat of a car (no way will a 212 fit into my boot with the rest of the gear in there), so if it's delivering a comparably good sound to the 212, then compactness for transport would be a big plus for some of us. Edited November 10, 2019 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 On 05/11/2019 at 14:18, MOSCOWBASS said: Word from Talkbass is it's a bit light in the low end..... Had a quick scan of the amps and cabs section there, couldn't find too much comment on it - if you've got a link to the thread, I'd be very interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 What about the 112 cab you recently sold? - I thought that might have answered some of the size v's output concerns for gigging. I'm guessing it was pretty compact, lighter and easier to load in and out? What was the catalyst for shifting it - I know folk find these full frequency response cabs can be quite unforgiving - that's been my experience listening to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, krispn said: What about the 112 cab you recently sold? - I thought that might have answered some of the size v's output concerns for gigging. I'm guessing it was pretty compact, lighter and easier to load in and out? What was the catalyst for shifting it - I know folk find these full frequency response cabs can be quite unforgiving - that's been my experience listening to them. The F112 is an awesome cab, no question. And I'll probably end up buying it back off Dave at some point when he's onto his next thing - haha! I know folk feel the HG310 seems to be answering a question that hasn't been asked d, but given that I am backline only rather than via our RCF 310A PA, if this cab is placed in-line with the PA speakers, it will be ideal to be at volume for audiences without being too loud for the singers, and the rear facing cab would then be a built-in very high quality stage monitor for me and the drummer. Very portable to (and in the!) boot and avoids the need for a separate bass monitor. Does feel like a very neat all-in-one solution to me, and I'm starting to think this could well be in the running as a 2020 Krow addition. (Which is good, as I've been rapidly running out ideas for new gear and fearing I might need to successfully partake in a 2020 Sibob gear abstinence challenge) 😁 I think any other solution would require a dedicated bass monitor and possibly going fully FRFR, possibly with 12" PA speakers + sub. I appreciate a lot of folk are already making something like that work well. Edited November 10, 2019 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 I’m still not entirely sure why you shifted the F112 then if it was more portable, sounded good, put out enough volume and an all round awesome cab? An email to Mr. Bergantino should answer your question if the 310 can be both monitor and FOH or the guys at Barefaced or @Ashdown Engineering might be able to offer advice and why they haven’t yet or might do something similar. I can understand the ‘logic’ of thinking the rear facing driver will work but I’m not convinced yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 54 minutes ago, Al Krow said: ...if this cab is placed in-line with the PA speakers, it will be ideal to be at volume for audiences without being too loud for the singers, and the rear facing cab would then be a built-in very high quality stage monitor for me and the drummer... So the cab will be front of stage in the way, and the monitor (back speaker) is at the bottom pointing at your ankles? There's a reason monitors are wedges... It might sound '3D' in a home studio environment in splendid isolation, but I'm still not buying this as a practical cab for the vast majority of gigs - if you're out without bass-capable PA, you're in a smaller room, and speakers facing both directions and your cab in front of you indicates (to me, at least) more trouble than it's worth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 38 minutes ago, krispn said: I’m still not entirely sure why you shifted the F112 then if it was more portable, sounded good, put out enough volume and an all round awesome cab? You can ask @dave_bass5to clarify that for you if you're still not sure! 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Muzz said: So the cab will be front of stage in the way, and the monitor (back speaker) is at the bottom pointing at your ankles? There's a reason monitors are wedges... It might sound '3D' in a home studio environment in splendid isolation, but I'm still not buying this as a practical cab for the vast majority of gigs - if you're out without bass-capable PA, you're in a smaller room, and speakers facing both directions and your cab in front of you indicates (to me, at least) more trouble than it's worth... Can't argue with that. But would you agree it should be a step up from a 112 BF SC with no bass monitor? We have our RCF 310As on stands, so the cunning plan would be to site the sub next to one monitor stand (sub will be used for functions only not pub gigs) and the bass cab next to other. We just then have one monitor for the vocals. Guitarist in one of my covers bands had a new digital mixer and decided to put through several monitors for a simple pub gig that we have played at loads before. OMG! Worst 20 mins start to a set ever with loads of feedback and stop / start. Ugh! Edited November 10, 2019 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSCOWBASS Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Al Krow said: Had a quick scan of the amps and cabs section there, couldn't find too much comment on it - if you've got a link to the thread, I'd be very interested. https://www.talkbass.com/threads/club-bergantino-lets-see-those-rigs.331615/page-615#post-22960819 This is just one comment, others really like the HG310. I like the concept and would like to try one, its such a personal thing... tone 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Al Krow said: Can't argue with that. But would you agree it should be a step up from a 112 BF SC with no bass monitor? We have our RCF 310As on stands, so the cunning plan would be to site the sub next to one monitor stand (sub will be used for functions only not pub gigs) and the bass cab next to other. We just then have one monitor for the vocals. Guitarist in one of my covers bands had a new digital mixer and decided to put through several monitors for a simple pub gig that we have played at loads before. OMG! Worst 20 mins start to a set ever with loads of feedback and stop / start. Ugh! If the SC gives you a sound you like but isn’t loud enough, I’d be inclined to add another for a more modular rig that’ll cover everything* rather than a cab that needs to be positioned in a fairly strange place: that rear-firing speaker will be a nightmare if the venue/stage shape/size means you have to position it in the tradition Pantomime position**, possibly near a wall... I’m not keen on even rear-ported cabs for this, let alone an actual rear driver. Again, I don’t see a 10” speaker at floor/ankle level giving much monitoring, unless you’re on a bigger stage... If the SC is loud enough, then just wedge it to point at your head: I have one of those kinda deckchair wedge stands for when I’m playing tight small gigs with my 112 combo, and it works a treat...it’s also my cure for guitards who always turn up too loud; point their cab at their head... Multi-monitors for a small pub gig is just daft, and that sort of decision-making was borne out by the balls he obviously made of running it, too... Out of interest, are you gonna run a long speaker cable, or have your amp on the cab at the front? * I’m basing ‘everything’ on my ST, which, with the right amp, will go much louder than any drummer...and that’s all backline needs to do 😁 ** ‘It’s behiiiind youuuu... 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) SC does the job splendidly! But the problem is if it's loud enough for the audience it's too loud for the singers, when it's in backline. I've dealt with that particular issue and also simultaneously cutting boominess / feedback by positioning my SC pretty much in line with the PA, but with no bass monitor. I'm kinda hoping that the rear facing cab gives me that extra monitor feature without needing to take another piece of kit. And I get your point about the rear facing speaker being ankle height. But there's an easy solution, right? Just turn the cab upside down. Edited November 10, 2019 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) But...but...the logo... 😕😁 I know what you mean about backline, if that's the situation I put my cab close to the drummer, which kinda gets around that sort of 'it's the bass' issue, and makes the rhythm section more of a sonic unit* If you do give it a go, I'd be first in line to hear if it works... * Possibly a 70s Hawkwind album, possibly not... 😁 Edited November 10, 2019 by Muzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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