Berg HG310 - a 112 killer?

[krispn]

I was gonna suggest the same - get the bass cab in beside the drums as much as possible and you might better be able to 'match' the volumes  - it's what I do on my country gig.

[dave_bass5]

How you you balance the out front and on stage volume and EQ?

[Al Krow]

That makes a lot of sense putting the bass cab next to the drummer, but don't you find the bass cab then setting off "sympathetic" vibrations / rattles in the drum kit, which I find jarring / irritating, when you do that?

Dave - was your Q at me or to Muzz / krispn? In my case, I just focus on the sound for the audience for gigs where we don't have a venue provided PA. The drummer seems to be able to hear us all well somehow, and the singers just want to hear themselves!  

Edited November 10, 2019 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

24 minutes ago, Muzz said:

But...but...the logo... 😕😁

Haha! But something kinda cool about an upside down Berg methinks? 😁

[bassfan]

Does your singer have in ears? That might solve all the problems. She can sort her own mix out assuming you are all DI’d into the mixer. 
put your cab next to the drummer and you should be sorted. 
 

unless of course you Just fancy the 310! 😃

is there anywhere in the U.K. stocking the 310s and 312s? 

[Al Krow]

@dave_bass5 - but you have rightly raised the single BIG flaw in my proposed use (which I think John and others also raised earlier in the thread) which is the inability to independently control the volume of the rear facing speaker in the way that you would a monitor.

Why I still think this should work is as follows:

• Bass cab will be positioned on the right / front side next to the right PA speaker;
• It will be angled-in towards the audience and the rear speaker will be angled away from the band => reducing stage vol
• All band members have ear protection => reducing stage vol
• The singers are in front of the full drumkit => bass stage vol shouldn't be overpowering compared to that and I will be nearest to the bass cab anyway to give myself the max benefit

Overall that should comfortably mean that the volume to the audience can be what we need it to be without the stage volume being too loud for the rest of the band, and any stage vol will be an improvement over no bass monitor.

@bassfan - it's taken me three years(!) to persuade our singers to use ear protection and they finally are, so we're not at the in-ear stage yet, but that would indeed be the solution to a lot of this, I know.

I think Bass Direct are the main dealer for Berg cabs, but don't think he will necessarily be keeping something as specialist as the HG series cabs in stock.

  

[bassfan]

31 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I think Bass Direct are the main dealer for Berg cabs, but don't think he will necessarily be keeping something as specialist as the HG series cabs in stock.

Maybe they would get one as a special order....let me know if you are seriously considering it....could well be interested in a 312. 😃

[Al Krow]

35 minutes ago, bassfan said:

Maybe they would get one as a special order....let me know if you are seriously considering it....could well be interested in a 312. 😃

I am! Sounds like a day out to the Midlands could be in the offing! Would that constitute a Fatberg if we both went to check out the cabs? 

[bassfan]

😂If they’ve got them in stock ...

[dave_bass5]

Sorry Bas, yes it was aimed at you. I just cant see it working with that 10" driver on the floor. If you cant hear yourself or a band member cant hear you you wont be able to turn up, as the out front will be effected. If you happen to be too loud on stage you cant turn down etc etc. 

 

[krispn]

Yeah you’ll have to balance the 210 out front against the 110 pointing back and that could cause a volume discrepancy  plus if you invert the cab you’ll lose the coupling effect too and lose bass/bottom. 

@dave_bass5 AK has abdicated his explanation for selling his very capable 112 cab to you - care to elucidate?  

Berhinger have some very affordable iem amps for about £30. A very handy option to have for the whole band if needed. We all use them and they work just fine.

Edited November 10, 2019 by krispn

[dave_bass5]

49 minutes ago, krispn said:

@dave_bass5 AK has abdicated his explanation for selling his very capable 112 cab to you - care to elucidate?  .

I was about to make a mistake for the second time and get another brand. Although i felt the time was right and I would get on a bit more with this cab, @Al Krowvery, very kindly insisted i didnt make the same mistake again, and offered me the F112. I had made an enquiry with Tricky Audio about getting one built, but never heard back (still haven't). 

Unfortunately AK will never get this cab back, which is a shame considering he waited 4 months for it, and i only waited 4 days 🙂

I love this cab very much. I now understand what others mean when they say it needs a lot of power. Its not a very sensitive cab, and needs the amp turned up a bit more than my previous cabs, but the tone is just 'right'. Seems to love EQ and its the first cab I've owned when small EQ changes can be heard clearly, and when you turn it up the tone doesn't seem to changer much. I think its definitely a better solution over the 310. 

Oh, and as for Schroeder's 1212L that was mentioned earlier,  thats the sledge hammer cab that really doesn't get phased by anything. Second best cab ive ever owned. In fact, maybe joint first. Every the F112 doesnt have the kick that the 1212L has, and its a very handy design. I used to have it upside down so the angled driver would face across the stage. Even my guitarist used to moan he couldn't hear himself. 

Sorry for the derailment. 

[krispn]

@Al Krow I’m still none the wiser but sounds like DB5 got a good cab. 
 

[jrixn1]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 it's taken me three years(!) to persuade our singers to use ear protection and they finally are, so we're not at the in-ear stage yet, but that would indeed be the solution to a lot of this, I know. 

Have you considered you (and the other musicians?) on in-ears, but not the singers?  One of our singer's preferred setup is everyone else on in-ears, apart from him - i.e. he gets a quiet stage with just his preferred (floor) monitor mix.

 

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, krispn said:

@Al Krow I’m still none the wiser but sounds like DB5 got a good cab. 
 

I was simply doing a mate a favour. The end!

[krispn]

Ahh ok I just thought it was a viable gigging option which you were pretty happy with and now you’re seeking a replacement. 

Forgive my ignorance. Carry on!

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, jrixn1 said:

Have you considered you (and the other musicians?) on in-ears, but not the singers?  One of our singer's preferred setup is everyone else on in-ears, apart from him - i.e. he gets a quiet stage with just his preferred (floor) monitor mix.

We haven't, but sounds like we maybe should start thinking about this. I suspect budget constraints may come into play and cost / benefit considerations etc. 

[krispn]

See my earlier comment:

£30 berhinger iem amp, xlr cable and some KZ ear buds should set one back about £70

[krispn]

U.K. brand db bass are selling some interesting cabs for not much money via reverb if space is an issue. 

https://reverb.com/uk/shop/dbs-gear-garage

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by krispn

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, krispn said:

See my earlier comment:

£30 berhinger iem amp, xlr cable and some KZ ear buds should set one back about £70

so guessing the price of the aforementioned Berg HG310 you would need to have quite a big band before IEM got more expensive 

[krispn]

Ha! One could buy the band iem rigs for Christmas and still have change from £200. Then buy the DB cabs which best suit the gig and boom! Sorted. 

[Al Krow]

Haha yes "one" could! 

But out of interest how many of you boys and girls buy your bandmates their gear for them? It's certainly not the way we operate in my bands. A fair number of us on this forum are very fortunate to be able to afford great bass gear, but that's entirely our choice on how we spend our spare cash, whilst our (and certainly some of my) band mates might just have a mic and stand and may not want to or indeed be able to spend too much more. 

IEMs are definitely worth considering at some point. But I think to get the most of going down that route, is going to require a fair bit more investment than you've touched on so far. Eg it will depend on the mixer output capability and, unless I'm missing something, I don't think our otherwise excellent Allen & Heath Zed60 FX14 would handle IEMs in addition to a monitor for the vocalists. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Al Krow

[dave_bass5]

IEM seems to be the current fix for everything these days.

We went from AK wanting to buy a cab, to equipping a whole band with IEM's, along with them having no say in the matter lol. 

 

[Al Krow]

Haha, very true dat Dave. 

For IEMs to work well IMO, we would need a set up where each IEM output can be tailored so that eg the vocalists can hear themselves individually boosted, I can hear more of the bass coming through mine etc. I'm guessing that's a relatively sophisticated system and not cheap? But it is what our simple non-IEM set up currently already allows us to do with just one monitor. 

[krispn]

33 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Haha, very true dat Dave. 

...I'm guessing that's a relatively sophisticated system and not cheap? But it is what our simple non-IEM set up currently already allows us to do with just one monitor. 

My earlier suggestion of buy them a Christmas gift was more illustrative than anything. I wouldn't think you'd want to buy the band any more gear if you're already providing the back line, p.a. etc  - A £30 belt pack is a pretty cheap outlay and could possibly be absorbed by each member - it's probably about the same as buying a round of drinks for the band.

Anyhow enough of this derailment let's get back on topic ...should I take a punt and replace my current gigging cab with a £1000+  3x10 cab to double as FOH bass amp/bass monitor for my band to better suit the singer/stage volume/venue sound.

Edited November 11, 2019 by krispn