Double bass microphones

[Rabbie]

Hi,

what’s your experience? Over the years I tried many: dpa, dpa clones, “pickupy” things like Schertler and Ehrlund, Remic. All of them had pros and cons but I ended up selling most of them to make cash for something else. Every now and then I like to see what people use...

thank you very much 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Rabbie
Explaining myself better

[Rabbie]

Oh, let me add, The intended use is for theatre-type gigs and acoustic jazz gigs. For louder “Dep” gigs I shall continue to stomach my pickup sound or possibly blend a little bit.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Rabbie
Explaining myself better

[Bilbo]

I use an Audio Technica ATM 350 for exactly the scenario you are describing. It sounds great and no feedback issues. I blend it with a David Gage Realist through my Acoustic Image Clarus

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ATM350U-Universal-Mounting-Cardioid-Condenser/dp/B01K1WU2H2/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=audio+technica+atm350&qid=1573406534&sr=8-1

[petebassist]

I picked up a very nice AMT S25B from Basschat that I wanted to use for recording. It takes a couple of minutes to attach, and captures the proper sound of my bass very nicely. I haven't tried it on a gig yet, I'd use it live on a stage, but not for pub gigs where it might get knocked.

 

[bassace]

I’ve used a few in the past including two DPAs at various times but would agree with Bilbo re ATM 350. It’s not too expensive and performs well. Here’s an old pic of my home-built mounting.

[Bilbo]

Interesting microphone placement, Bassace. I put mine in front of the strings but your approach give better access to the strings. I will try that next time I do a gig (Gypsy Jazz quartet next Sunday) and let you know how I get on. I would imagine that, in theory, I would get a stronger signal and have more to work with. We shall see.

[bassace]

In practice, I have the mic closer to the table - about 10mm. This picks up a stronger signal with less susceptibility to feedback.

[Rabbie]

Thanks v much gents.

[Happy Jack]

Probably not what you want to read, Rabbie, but a couple of weeks ago at a rehearsal I unplugged my ply DB from my bass rig (AI Clarus II into a Crazy Eight) and plugged instead into the Hi-Z input on my cheap-as-chips Behringer XR18 wireless mixer, going into a pair of cheap-as-chips 1x10 PA wedges. Just out of curiosity. That channel on the PA had no special processing set up, no compression or low cut, no FX or anything.

I was surprised to hear that the damned thing sounded very nearly as good through the cheap PA as it had through well over a grand's worth of specialist kit. Just a bit boomy.

So I dug out my HPF and put that in the signal chain: DB -> HPF -> XR18 -> Powersoft Digam power amp -> cheap 1x10 wedges.

Now it sounded just as good and - apart from the HPF - everything I was using was stuff that would be taken to a gig anyway for use by the band.

It's worth experimenting with the kit you already have lying around before going the specialist mic route ...

 

[mr zed]

6 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

Probably not what you want to read, Rabbie, but a couple of weeks ago at a rehearsal I unplugged my ply DB from my bass rig (AI Clarus II into a Crazy Eight) and plugged instead into the Hi-Z input on my cheap-as-chips Behringer XR18 wireless mixer, going into a pair of cheap-as-chips 1x10 PA wedges. Just out of curiosity. That channel on the PA had no special processing set up, no compression or low cut, no FX or anything.

I was surprised to hear that the damned thing sounded very nearly as good through the cheap PA as it had through well over a grand's worth of specialist kit. Just a bit boomy.

So I dug out my HPF and put that in the signal chain: DB -> HPF -> XR18 -> Powersoft Digam power amp -> cheap 1x10 wedges.

Now it sounded just as good and - apart from the HPF - everything I was using was stuff that would be taken to a gig anyway for use by the band.

It's worth experimenting with the kit you already have lying around before going the specialist mic route ...

 

Thanks Jack - I’ve had an XR18 for around 3 years now and hadn’t noticed that there were Hi-Z inputs on there! Doh! That opens up opportunities. Thanks for the heads-up.

[fretless]

Rabbie

It seems to me that db mics are another "which are the best strings" type dilema ...

One mic does not fit all instruments/style/strings/volume/etc/etc.

My travels down this road have brought me (via sm57 under fretboard, joemeek pencil condenser mic, AMT s25B, various piezo pick-ups and Full circle) to a Nadine Ear Trumpets mic (needs 48 volts phantom power) which, as far as I can tell, does reproduce accurately the acoustic sound of my bass (carved old Czech hatpeg, spiro weich strings). That nirvana of "my bass but louder" ..............BUT ...................................... It is expensive AND proved to be utterly incapable of being used with my Markbass 12 combo at even moderate volume. I never sorted this out despite conflab with the ear trumpet people, use of  fishman pre-amp, etc. I am not an electro wizard but I don't think the output impedance of the Nadine liked the input impedance of the Markbass. Since most of our work is in smallish venues we use backline for amplification and not being able to use the Nadine effectively was frustrating.

Sending the mic output to the main board was fine on a largish outside gig and I was told by a muso I respect that the DB sound to the audience was very good. However, they also had a di feed from the Markbass into which I ran the full circle  - so I really don't know what the balance was between the two bass feeds on the main desk.

Did the same at a lower volume ( but quality venue) gig where everything was put through the pa by an experienced ( bass playing) tech and we had a copy of the individual tracks recorded - these sounded ok in the circumstances but once again I don't know how the bass was blended. I think it is so much easier for a pa person to use the full circle feed when time is short.

I am now putting it through an AI amp just bought on Basschat so I have the full circle into one channel as backup, the Nadine into the other channel and I can dispense with the outboard 48 volt power supply otherwise required by the Nadine. Only one modest gig with the new arrangement so far but we have two or three more coming up in the next fortnight so I will be better able to judge results. 

On the recent gig we played I used the "Nadine" channel about 75%, Full Circle 25% and was please to hear a very unadulterated sound at an acceptable volume. I have not pushed the AI combo volume yet but should get about 600 watts with my upshot speaker added.

The band plays swing and latin, two saxes, drums, guitar, bass , vocal so rock volume not required but it is a reasonably full sound.

(Incidentally, the AI head has also worked fine with fretless and Jazz basses put through a markbass 15 cab - again,  not seeking a trash metal sound !!!!)

I'm off to contemplate if I really want to buy some pirastro perpetuals to add to my box of must-have strings .....................Double bass, the way to madness and poverty.

[Rabbie]

I met the Ear Trumpet Team while one tour in Canada, they had a stall at an event in Montreal this year. They seemed very nice people and their mics look really nice. Expensive yes but all quality is I guess.

[tinyd]

Does anyone here have experience with the  t.bone Ovid CC 100 ? Obviously I wouldn't expect it to perform as well as some of the more expensive mics out there, but on paper it looks like it could be worth trying, especially for cheapskates like me.

[TheRev]

13 hours ago, tinyd said:

Does anyone here have experience with the  t.bone Ovid CC 100 ? Obviously I wouldn't expect it to perform as well as some of the more expensive mics out there, but on paper it looks like it could be worth trying, especially for cheapskates like me.

I have one. I use it for home recording rather than live work as my band is way to loud to use a mic with.

I think the sound is very good for a 40 quid mic, but I'm not keen on the mounting clip - it doesn't isolate very well so the mic picks up an a annoying mid range ring (on my bass anyway). I get better results if the mic is physically separated from the bass. I've never tried a DPA so I cant directly compare, but it sounds similar to condenser  mics I've used in the studio. The ability to close mic to the table gives it the edge over a mic on a stand, its just annoying the the Ovid mounting clip doesnt isolate the mic fully from the string afterlength vibration.

If anyone has a good suggestion for mounting the Ovid/DPA type mic on the bass that is truly vibration dampened, I'm all ears.

[tinyd]

Thanks @TheRev - I might get one, but I'd heard that the mounting was a bit flaky alright. Cheers!

[gypsyjazzer]

Great topic and answers guys. I am thinking of going down the mic route--for my ears the best  sound to get from the DB is the mic.

I agree with 'Fretless'------'Double bass, the way to madness and poverty'. To add to this I also play banjo & guitar---triple madness and poverty---------------------------------------------- 

Edited November 17, 2019 by gypsyjazzer
added to

[Rabbie]

Thank you very much guys. I should probably have given more info in the top post, but I didn’t want to make it too long. I originally wanted the mic to stay on a “cheaper” bass I keep at a local hall for regular gigs there, and I also use for other small work etc... Those gigs could have any number of people on stage so it’s tricky to guess just how loud, but always chiefly acoustic and drums with brushes. I wanted something that could stay on the bass, because when I can’t make the gig, someone else may use it. Alas, I since decided to sell that bass (it’s the Stingl by Hofner in the classifieds), so it’s no longer a requirement.

For my main bass and gigs, I found that the only brilliant development in the double bass mic category in the last few years is the REMIC 5400 series. I am partial to this as I’m an endorsing artist (but I don’t get them for free of course). In the past year and a half I gigged the 5400LB everywhere and loved it. 
 

[Jonnydoghouse]

On 13/11/2019 at 09:54, tinyd said:

Does anyone here have experience with the  t.bone Ovid CC 100 ? Obviously I wouldn't expect it to perform as well as some of the more expensive mics out there, but on paper it looks like it could be worth trying, especially for cheapskates like me.

Late to the party here, but if it's a cheaper mic you're looking for,  I've had good results with a Shure PGA98H.

I paid under £100 new.

It's essentially a brass mic with a clip and a goose neck. I use mine clipped onto the treble side f hole about 4" above the hole and in towards the bridge a little, alongside a superior bassworks wing transducer through an amp (sometimes D.I.'d, sometimes not and quite loud) and cab for monitoring  send the mic sound straight to the mixer. 

I've heard the mic on it's own through a large P.A. and it sounded pretty good, full and natural for a budget mic. I'm not after using it as the main source, I just use it to give the 'air' and percussive sounds a more natural sound. It does need phantom power.

We only use a snare and cymbal in the band so the volume level is fairly low and the other instrument is acoustic guitar (although that's pretty loud in the monitors)

I've never tried putting the mic in the monitors but will give it a go sometime.

Cheers!