DIY cabs

[Dizzy_G]

Hi Lads,

I thought i might post details of my [url="http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.php/Fearful%E2%84%A2_12/6_%26_15/6"]fEarful 12/6/1[/url].
I'm only playing bass a little over a year, I'm a bit of a DIY'er and needed a cab so the fearful appeared to be a good choice. Cost wise it was more than going and buying a new or a second hand 210/112 etc. but sure hey I got to have some fun building it and learned a bit too in the process.

Final Spec is as follows:
12mm 9Ply Birch, all corners & braces rabbet jointed and braces lap jointed, all glued and clamped, no nails or screws.
3012LF, Alpha 6A, ASD1001, Dayton H07E waveguide, Greenboy CBG Crossover, Duke tweet crossover (with tweet defeat switch)
Roller finish Tuff Cab™ speaker paint, 63% open area MS Grill , spring loaded handles, plastic corners, all stainless screws.
Weight 21kg (A bit of a fatty compared to other 12/6's on talkbass, but i think this is due to the density of the birch ply)

Some thoughts, I don't claim to have a golden ear or anything like that but I would compare it to playing through headphones, very clear and even if that makes sense. Also little tweaks to EQ settings gets immediate responses. Playing low B is very clear, no farting, currently I only have 130w going into the cab and it does not even break a sweat and can get loud, will be trying t soon with a bit of a power hike (I would love to hear a 151566 albeit from a distance, they must be earth shattering loud).
If I were doing a second one I wouldn't bother with the tweeter, i don't think it really adds much to bass to be honest, live and learn, it is nice to have a full range cab however. Anyhow enough bull from me, Some pics:

[url="http://img411.imageshack.us/i/dscf3860.jpg/"][/url] [url="http://img714.imageshack.us/i/dscf3858k.jpg/"][/url] [url="http://img228.imageshack.us/i/dscf3864.jpg/"][/url]

[allighatt0r]

Does anybody have an idea how much it would cost me to get a chippy to make one of the EV TL boxes?

[RichardH]

To be honest if you can screw wood together you can do one. Just get a timber merchant to do the cuts for you, so you'll end up with everything nice and square - then it's just a matter of assembly. You'll need something to cut the hole for the driver though.

[Mr.T]

[quote name='RichardH' post='1047076' date='Dec 4 2010, 07:46 AM']. You'll need something to cut the hole for the driver though.[/quote]

A standard JigSaw will do the job just fine.... If you take your time!

[RichardH]

Yep - even a cheapo Aldi special!

[KingPrawn]

Hello all. I need your wizdom.

I want to build a 2x10 4ohm cab. housing construction is no challenge as in a previous life i was a joiner. However i am becoming increasingly confused regarding what speakers to buy. i assumed two 4ohm speakers would work. However doing some web research it appears not, that this will give me the wrong impedence. can anyone help? i want to make it about 400w. i am really really confused.???? also can any advice on which way to wire the speakers to the sockets? diagrams etc. Im sure amongst you all the answer is out there.


Thanks

[BigRedX]

For 4 ohm cab with 2 speakers they need to be 8 ohm each and wired in parallel.

[andydye]

Hi there,

A little help/advice from the experts would be appreciated...

I'm hoping to build a mini speaker box to go under my PJB bassbuddy, this will be my first cab build!

My intention is that it will have an internal void of 300x300x300mm with 4 25mm dia vents in the front, this matches the Eminence data sheet vent requirement for my chosen speaker (Eminence Basslite CH2010 10") but exceeds the data sheet for internal volume (would be 300x300x200mm) as I liked the idea of a bass-cube...

What are the implications of me making the box deeper?
Will it sound more 'middy' but have less low end if I make it shallower to match the data sheet?
Will it sound too woofy if I make it a cube?

Or will it be fine?

Should I fill the void with something, just attach some insulation to the sides/top/bottom or leave it empty?

Thanks guys.

[stevie]

[quote name='andydye' post='1276680' date='Jun 21 2011, 09:23 AM']My intention is that it will have an internal void of 300x300x300mm with 4 25mm dia vents in the front, this matches the Eminence data sheet vent requirement for my chosen speaker (Eminence Basslite CH2010 10") but exceeds the data sheet for internal volume (would be 300x300x200mm) as I liked the idea of a bass-cube...[/quote]
Only just noticed this - these DIY posts disappear from the radar very quickly. If you've not started building yet - don't build a cab that's a cube. It's the worst possible shape. The ideal is to have each dimension different to prevent standing waves that will come out through the cone and colour your sound. Also, don't use four 1-inch ports. Just use one.

[andydye]

[quote name='stevie' post='1319502' date='Jul 28 2011, 04:57 PM']Only just noticed this - these DIY posts disappear from the radar very quickly. If you've not started building yet - don't build a cab that's a cube. It's the worst possible shape. The ideal is to have each dimension different to prevent standing waves that will come out through the cone and colour your sound. Also, don't use four 1-inch ports. Just use one.[/quote]

It's pinned now so that should help!

I have decided to bin the idea and just buy a Vanderkley 112MNT...

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='andydye' post='1276680' date='Jun 21 2011, 09:23 AM']Hi there,

A little help/advice from the experts would be appreciated...

I'm hoping to build a mini speaker box to go under my PJB bassbuddy, this will be my first cab build!

My intention is that it will have an internal void of 300x300x300mm with 4 25mm dia vents in the front, this matches the Eminence data sheet vent requirement for my chosen speaker (Eminence Basslite CH2010 10") but exceeds the data sheet for internal volume (would be 300x300x200mm) as I liked the idea of a bass-cube...

What are the implications of me making the box deeper?
Will it sound more 'middy' but have less low end if I make it shallower to match the data sheet?
Will it sound too woofy if I make it a cube?

Or will it be fine?

Should I fill the void with something, just attach some insulation to the sides/top/bottom or leave it empty?

Thanks guys.[/quote]

Bigger box is more lows, if the port tuning is right (it depends on box size as well as the pipe size). Knobbly foam lining inside.

[rockabillybob1]

heres my diy effort peavey 750w head home made cab ported at bottom

[Dubs]

[quote name='rockabillybob1' timestamp='1317758720' post='1394327']
heres my diy effort peavey 750w head home made cab ported at bottom
[/quote]

Looks really pro, nice work

[tm486]

Hi,

I am totally new to cab building and just fancy giving it a try, so forgive any stupid questions please.

I am thinking of building 1 or 2 1x10 bass cabs mainly just to give it a go, and I’ve come up with a few questions.

I’ve been looking at a pair of eminence deltalite 2510 ii’s or a pair of eminence basslite s2010’s. I’ve been looking at the specs and they seem to be fairly similar; my question is which is better suited to bass guitar or what would the main noticeable differences be between the two choices?

Also how would I calculate the port size and length to make a ported enclosure?

Thanks in advance for any help,


Tom

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='tm486' timestamp='1323525448' post='1464196']
Hi,

I am totally new to cab building and just fancy giving it a try, so forgive any stupid questions please.

I am thinking of building 1 or 2 1x10 bass cabs mainly just to give it a go, and I’ve come up with a few questions.

I’ve been looking at a pair of eminence deltalite 2510 ii’s or a pair of eminence basslite s2010’s. I’ve been looking at the specs and they seem to be fairly similar; my question is which is better suited to bass guitar or what would the main noticeable differences be between the two choices?

Also how would I calculate the port size and length to make a ported enclosure?

Thanks in advance for any help,


Tom
[/quote]

Hi Tom,
The Deltalite has a cast frame, which is generally a sign of a higher-spec driver (though what this means in practice varies). The extra thermal wattage rating means it'll go a little bit louder overall but the performance of each speaker at bass frequencies is limited to about the same output level due to how much the cone moves back and forth. For modelling the low frequency behaviour of the loudspeakers, the Thiele-Small parameters included on the manufacturer's datasheet (together with Xmax which indicates cone excursion linear limit) can be plugged into software like WinISD pro alpha (free). This lets you see the effect of box size and port tuning, and also indicates how long a port should be for a given tuning, box volume and port diameter.
For a 1x10 speaker ~35 litres internal volume tuned to about 50-55Hz is a reasonable starting point for both these drivers IMO. The Deltalite will have slightly more of a 'hump' in the response around 100Hz, which can be quite effective at conveying an impression of 'bassiness', but the difference is pretty small. For a single 1x10 I'd personally use the Deltalite but for a 2x10 (say, 70 litres also tuned to ~50Hz) I'd consider using two s2012s to save a bit of cash and also weight, you have the potential for a very light cab there. You could go a bit smaller or a bit larger for these cabs, doing that will decrease or increase the bass response respectively.

[tm486]

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1323737588' post='1466517']
Hi Tom,
The Deltalite has a cast frame, which is generally a sign of a higher-spec driver (though what this means in practice varies). The extra thermal wattage rating means it'll go a little bit louder overall but the performance of each speaker at bass frequencies is limited to about the same output level due to how much the cone moves back and forth. For modelling the low frequency behaviour of the loudspeakers, the Thiele-Small parameters included on the manufacturer's datasheet (together with Xmax which indicates cone excursion linear limit) can be plugged into software like WinISD pro alpha (free). This lets you see the effect of box size and port tuning, and also indicates how long a port should be for a given tuning, box volume and port diameter.
For a 1x10 speaker ~35 litres internal volume tuned to about 50-55Hz is a reasonable starting point for both these drivers IMO. The Deltalite will have slightly more of a 'hump' in the response around 100Hz, which can be quite effective at conveying an impression of 'bassiness', but the difference is pretty small. For a single 1x10 I'd personally use the Deltalite but for a 2x10 (say, 70 litres also tuned to ~50Hz) I'd consider using two s2012s to save a bit of cash and also weight, you have the potential for a very light cab there. You could go a bit smaller or a bit larger for these cabs, doing that will decrease or increase the bass response respectively.
[/quote]


Hi Lawrence,

I'm quite looking forward to a build like this, i've looked into the box construction but can't download WinISD until this weekend when i have access to a PC. Will there be any large benefit to having the box tuned to 41Hz or will this increase the box size too much?

Any other tips constuction wise for someone building a cab for the first time? Even though it is just a small one.

Thanks for your help, much appreciated.

Tom

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='tm486' timestamp='1323776391' post='1466800']
Will there be any large benefit to having the box tuned to 41Hz or will this increase the box size too much?
[/quote]

The problem with doing this is that mechanical excursion of the woofer in the crucial 1st harmonic region gets considerable placing a practical limit on how loud you can go, while at the same time you lose sensitivity in that same region. The other issue is that tuning to this frequency requires quite a long port taking up further internal space. It's all a trade-off but personally with typical 10" drivers I'd place a greater priority on 60 to 100Hz region than 40-60.
What are your priorities from a cabinet out of small, loud, deep? To get an answer to this question it helps to have a play around with speakers that have a really excellent smooth bass response to see the effect of boosting different frequencies on bass guitar. Decent headphones do a surprisingly good job here, certainly compared to typical small hifi speakers, but they won't thump you in the chest like a big subwoofer can! What amp and bass would you be using with these cabs?

[LawrenceH]

Also, in case you haven't spotted it I have started a build diary over in the relevant subforum to construct a pair of lightweight 35 litre 1x10 speakers, using Celestion drivers but they'd work with the Eminence drivers - I try to explain my thinking behind it over there so perhaps it'd be useful if you're looking to do something at all similar.

[tm486]

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1323786684' post='1467008']
Also, in case you haven't spotted it I have started a build diary over in the relevant subforum to construct a pair of lightweight 35 litre 1x10 speakers, using Celestion drivers but they'd work with the Eminence drivers - I try to explain my thinking behind it over there so perhaps it'd be useful if you're looking to do something at all similar.
[/quote]

I had noticed your build thread, I will certainly be following that. It was 1x10 build threads that prompted me to have a go myself.

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1323786188' post='1467000']
The problem with doing this is that mechanical excursion of the woofer in the crucial 1st harmonic region gets considerable placing a practical limit on how loud you can go, while at the same time you lose sensitivity in that same region. The other issue is that tuning to this frequency requires quite a long port taking up further internal space. It's all a trade-off but personally with typical 10" drivers I'd place a greater priority on 60 to 100Hz region than 40-60.
What are your priorities from a cabinet out of small, loud, deep? To get an answer to this question it helps to have a play around with speakers that have a really excellent smooth bass response to see the effect of boosting different frequencies on bass guitar. Decent headphones do a surprisingly good job here, certainly compared to typical small hifi speakers, but they won't thump you in the chest like a big subwoofer can! What amp and bass would you be using with these cabs?
[/quote]

I understand that cabinets are all a tradeoff of desirable properties, choosing 2 out of small, loud and bassy, I think that small and loud would be the two ideal parameters for me. At the moment my main bass is a bass collection sb310. I don't have an amplifier to use with these cabs but i would look at buying a small amp along the lines of a markbass or similar if they turn out well. I would be testing using the MAG 300 from my combo.

Thanks again

Tom

[Phil Starr]

Hi Tom, I hope you are going ahead with this project. If you haven't already chosen your drivers then I'd like to add a bit.

For any given driver there is an optimum solution both in terms of cab size and tuning frequency. For example you really want your port output to be tuned to the speakers resonance so that you get maximally flat responses and the cabinet size needs to be adjusted to achieve the optimum damping of the speaker. Any of the speaker design programs will recommend the optimum cabs and tuning and the better ones like WinISD will allow you to see what happens with a less than optimum alignment.

Generally speaking if you wanted a flat response down to bottom E then you would start with a driver with a resonance below that point. This means a heavier cone or a softer suspension and usually means lower efficiency. It also means your speaker will have to be designed with a longer excursion to cope with these low frequencies. If you want a smaller box then you look for a driver with a bigger magnet for better electromagnetic damping to compensate for less damping from your box. Also look for low Vas.

I wouldn't get hung up on deep bass, speaker designers talk about cut off frequencies but the speaker doesn't just stop here, there will still be some sound but at lower levels right down below 41Hz and the bass is often reinforced by boundary reflections from floors and walls in real life situations indoors so a lot of deep bass can be difficult to manage. The character of your speaker is going to be more determined by any hump in frequency response above 100Hz and the midrange peaks which both the Eminence drivers show.

I haven't modelled these speakers but it looks as if the deltalite is better than the basslite by a small amount probably proportionate to the price difference. If you decide that you are going ahead and it isn't too late I will run them through winisd and give you more detail.

Cheers

[tm486]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1330073648' post='1552183']
Hi Tom, I hope you are going ahead with this project. If you haven't already chosen your drivers then I'd like to add a bit.

For any given driver there is an optimum solution both in terms of cab size and tuning frequency. For example you really want your port output to be tuned to the speakers resonance so that you get maximally flat responses and the cabinet size needs to be adjusted to achieve the optimum damping of the speaker. Any of the speaker design programs will recommend the optimum cabs and tuning and the better ones like WinISD will allow you to see what happens with a less than optimum alignment.

Generally speaking if you wanted a flat response down to bottom E then you would start with a driver with a resonance below that point. This means a heavier cone or a softer suspension and usually means lower efficiency. It also means your speaker will have to be designed with a longer excursion to cope with these low frequencies. If you want a smaller box then you look for a driver with a bigger magnet for better electromagnetic damping to compensate for less damping from your box. Also look for low Vas.

I wouldn't get hung up on deep bass, speaker designers talk about cut off frequencies but the speaker doesn't just stop here, there will still be some sound but at lower levels right down below 41Hz and the bass is often reinforced by boundary reflections from floors and walls in real life situations indoors so a lot of deep bass can be difficult to manage. The character of your speaker is going to be more determined by any hump in frequency response above 100Hz and the midrange peaks which both the Eminence drivers show.

I haven't modelled these speakers but it looks as if the deltalite is better than the basslite by a small amount probably proportionate to the price difference. If you decide that you are going ahead and it isn't too late I will run them through winisd and give you more detail.

Cheers
[/quote]

Hi,

Thanks for all the advice, I haven'tbought any drivers yet, haven't made any decisions at all. I'm thinking of doing it whilst I'm home from uni over the summer holidays as something interesting to pass the time which could actually give me something useful. This gives me 3-4 months to decide on drivers before I can make a start. I think I'm starting to understand what a few of the parameters mean and I can run them through winISD when at home as I have a windows computer there.

With regards to deep bass, it certainly seems as though a cab tuning of over 50Hz would be better suited to what I think I'm trying to achieve.

Again, thanks for the advice and i'll be sure to come back with any questions nearer the time.


Tom

[ivansc]

Hi, All - been a while, but at the tender age of 68 I appear to have gotten myself un-retired form bass playing!
I bought a little Behringer 300 watt amp and matching 2x10 with horn cabinet from a member here a year or so back & it has been doing really well for most of the gigs I play. But I recently got involved with a band that plays larger venues and on closer inspection of the Behri I realised the cab was 8ohms and the amp only delivers the full 300 watts into 4 ohms.

So.... I bought a pair of 10" Celestion neo 300 watt 8ohm drivers and set about swapping them out for the (much heavier) bugera drivers in the Behri cab.
Idiot that I am, I had not checked and the diameter on which the Bugeras mount is about 10mm overal wider than the Clestions!
Add to that the Behri cab has two 4 ohm speakers wired in series and PERMANENTLY wired to only two terminals on the PCB carrying the horn crossover.
By this time I had pretty much decided it would be as easy to sell the Behringer cab and build a new cab for the neos!

So on skimming this huge thread, I got the sense that the Celestions were not everyones favourite speaker, although I do have the version with the lower fundamental frequency of the available two types.
Since I am stuck with them, any suggestions as to a lightweight relatively easy to build 2x10 cabinet plan?

Apologies for repeating this if the question has already been asked a lot.

Edited April 21, 2012 by ivansc

[Jazz Bass 65]

I build my own cabs and quite few for other people, these two were for a fellow bassist who used a Markbass amp, at the time they were £175 each but with Neos reaching silly prices these days they'd cost more.
The cabs are 1/2" ply braced and amzingly light, the tuning ports are 4" fall pipe the 15" (3" in the 2x10) is loaded with an Eminence Kappalite 3015, the 2x10" isloaded with Eminence Beta 10s.
I gig the same type of cabs myself so I know how well they work and how much sound they kick out
In the past complex cabs were needed due to the limtations of the speakers of the day, if they'd handle 100 watts you were lucky, today i make a simple tuned. box

Edited April 23, 2012 by Jazz Bass 65

[Matte_black]

I've put this one together in a few hours... maybe 2 afternoons? 8.8kg, 100db, 200w/8Ohm. Very loud and pretty small. I'm willing to share the plans if anybody needs it. Total cost: €100!

[andyjevans]

Hi guys -

New project here. I'm getting older and want a really light bass cab. I have a 75 litre sealed cabinet which presently houses an old Eminence 15". I can unscrew the front, so could make a front for a single 12" if that were necessary. I play double bass and b-gtr, jazz and fusion, small venues.

So thinking of a Neo unit. 15" if the cab size would take it, otherwise 12". I've been looking at:
Eminence Basslite Celestion Green Label Celestion Orange Label
Sica

These seem the value ones. Celestion BN15-300x is the lowest VAS in the 15" ones at 98. Most of the others are around 150. VAS for the 12" units would be around 60.

So that's for starters! Can anybody recommend a Neo 12" or 15" from experience? I could port the cabinet - open to that.

andy