DIY cabs

[VTypeV4]

[quote name='budget bassist' timestamp='1409153161' post='2536886']
Bit of a strange question, but you didn't buy these from someone in hucknall (nottingham) did you?
[/quote]

No, they were given to me to make work then move on by a friend from local 'knees up' group called Bearfoot. I put a nasty Sica driver in one that I'd got knocking around and swapped the Celestion out for an EVM SRO / 15L. I flogged them on eBay to some young lads from up near Geordie land. The Sica sounded a bit off as it wasn't really up to the job but the EV sounded nearly (but not quite) as good as the Powercel.

I've still got the Celestion Powercel in a box for a 'rainy day' as it's a lovely old thing. The K15 was probably scrapped but gave it to the lads with the cabs anyway just in case they wanted to recone it.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1409552620' post='2540700']
Bill FM will possibly maybe turn up and say that they're not!
[/quote]
[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1409576359' post='2541030']
They aren't.
[/quote]

told you so!

[TRBboy]

Hey guys! I'm really intrigued about DIY cabs at the moment, but I'm not sure which way to go with it. I've got an idea for a cab, but no previous experience of making speaker cabinets. Can't quite get my head around figuring out the maths right now, but I'm sure I'll get there! What I would love to achieve is a cab that sounds at least as good as my current Vanderkley 212MNT, but in an even smaller format,

The likes of Bill Fitzmaurice and Greenboy make it sound like there's no point trying to design your own cab, so I don't know if it's even worth bothering, but surely if it was as simple as working out the calculations for the optimum bass cab, surely there would be only one design which was 'the best'?

Thoughts? Are there any other good DIY resources to look at apart from Bill or fEARful? Which one is best?!

Thanks for your help people!

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='TRBboy' timestamp='1436049247' post='2814636']
if it was as simple as working out the calculations for the optimum bass cab, surely there would be only one design which was 'the best'?
[/quote]True, which is why it's not that simple. Every speaker is a compromise. Knowing where you can compromise and where you shouldn't is something that one only learns through experience. For every diamond I've designed there were at least four lumps of coal, which like all lumps of coal ended up as ashes.

[TRBboy]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1436052996' post='2814662']
True, which is why it's not that simple. Every speaker is a compromise. Knowing where you can compromise and where you shouldn't is something that one only learns through experience. For every diamond I've designed there were at least four lumps of coal, which like all lumps of coal ended up as ashes.
[/quote]

Thanks Bill, it is all very interesting indeed! I can appreciate the time and effort that goes into the design of a cab. I guess most routes have been explored already, but in my mind there are other possibilities, although I don't have the skills to design them properly to see if the science works out! I would love to have something which sounds at least as good as my 2X12" but is a 'one-hand carry'..... Maybe I should find a custom cab design company, and send them some sketches?

Thanks for your help!

[Phil Starr]

Hmmm, I'd go half way with Bill. For every diamond you'll get four lumps of coal. The physics is fairly easy, as is the construction process. This is especially true since the free software packages do this for you. Anyone with A level sciences or any engineering would have no problem with that aspect.The problem is in specifying what you want and then relating that to the design. That does take experience and is as much a craft as a science, you use the science but it only walks you halfway there.

If you don't mind an experiment that might not come out as you expect then it's a real learning experience but you won't get it 'right' first time. Follow the rules and it will work, and you could get a better speaker than a commercial one at that price but you won't know what it sounds like until you plug your bass in and it is too late to back out. That suits some people but not others. Depends how you feel about coal I suppose.

You've probably spotted this [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/227904-1x12-cab-design-diary/"]http://basschat.co.u...b-design-diary/[/url] there's enough detail in there to build it now but I'm working on detailed plans over the next couple of weeks.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Phil Starr

[Beer of the Bass]

It occurs to me that while it's not unusual to come up with a functional cab as a DIY effort, trying to make something which does the job of your Vanderkley but lighter and smaller could be setting the bar rather high. It's already about as small as a 2x12" could reasonably be without sacrificing bass response, is built with lightweight plywood and uses very good drivers (Faital, I think?). A 1x12" with similar voicing might be an attainable goal though.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Beer of the Bass

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='TRBboy' timestamp='1436087450' post='2814770']
I would love to have something which sounds at least as good as my 2X12" but is a 'one-hand carry'..[/quote]Simple task, use two tens or one twelve with as much driver displacement as your 2x12. [quote]Maybe I should find a custom cab design company, and send them some sketches?
[/quote]It won't come cheap. My fee for a one-off design is $2,000 USD. That's because the average time required to come up with a fully functional design is at least 80 hours. That's not an issue for a company that expects to sell hundreds, if not thousands of cabs. The only way I manage to sell my plans for $15 is that their sales also number in the thousands.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1436094209' post='2814838']
It occurs to me that while it's not unusual to come up with a functional cab as a DIY effort, trying to make something which does the job of your Vanderkley but lighter and smaller could be setting the bar rather high. It's already about as small as a 2x12" could reasonably be without sacrificing bass response, is built with lightweight plywood and uses very good drivers (Faital, I think?). A 1x12" with similar voicing might be an attainable goal though.
[/quote]
Fair comment I think, the nearest you might get would be with a long throw bass driver and some sort of midrange driver but then you'll need to follow a design like the Greenboy or design a crosssover yourself which doubles your problems.

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='TRBboy' timestamp='1436087450' post='2814770']
(...)
I would love to have something which sounds at least as good as my 2X12" but is a 'one-hand carry'.....
(...)
[/quote]

Sorry to point out the obvious, i can easily lift/carry my Super12T with just one hand. Even easier if i decide to keep it on the floor and use the wheels
2x12"+T, 19Kg, nice low-end, flat(ish) voicing

Maybe you should see if you can try one.

[TRBboy]

Hi guys, sorry I haven't responded for a while!

I realise that I currently have one of the best sounding, lightest and and most compact 2x12" cabs on the market, but I was just curious really. My idea, basically, was to try having a cab which was not much bigger than a 1x12", but with a 12" mid driver and horn/tweeter in the front, ported, and then a 12" (or maybe even 10") LF driver facing downwards into a slot at the bottom and ported (effectively working as a subwoofer). Don't know if this makes sense without a picture! There would be a 3-way crossover (obvs.).

Bill: With the greatest of respect, I know that theoretically two tens or one twelve with the same driver displacement could be equal, but I know from experience that in reality they would never stack up against a top quality 2x12" in practice, no matter what the claims of the manufacturer are.

Ghost_Bass: I can lift the vanderkley with one hand, it's not heavy, but the handles are positioned for a two handed lift which means it doesn't balance well in one hand. Also in reality, it's very difficult to try and squeeze through a standard doorway with the cab in one hand, bass in the other and a backpack on! As far as Barefaced goes, it's kind of 'been there, done that' for me, although I've never tried a Super12T, but I don't believe they're made any more anyway.

Thanks for all of your advice guys. Realistically, I don't think that I'm going to have the time, money or expertise in the foreseeable to have a go at making my thoughts reality, but I'll keep you posted if that changes.

[Phil Starr]

having a downward facing sub-woofer would be perfectly acceptable provided certain other conditions are met and would allow you to reduce the size of the baffle, however there is still the need to have enough volume in the cab to allow the two speakers to work properly. Effectively you would need to have a cab for each speaker so the need to be downward facing is not likely to arise in practice. It would be about changing the shape of the cab and not about changing the volume.

[TRBboy]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1437136138' post='2823892']
having a downward facing sub-woofer would be perfectly acceptable provided certain other conditions are met and would allow you to reduce the size of the baffle, however there is still the need to have enough volume in the cab to allow the two speakers to work properly. Effectively you would need to have a cab for each speaker so the need to be downward facing is not likely to arise in practice. It would be about changing the shape of the cab and not about changing the volume.
[/quote]

Ah, thanks Phil. Yeah, I was kind of thinking that the cab would be a bit taller and deeper than a 1X12", and that the inside would be partitioned to segregate the speakers and allow sufficient volume for each driver. You think it could potentially work then?

[verb]

Rather than starting a new topic, I thought I'd ask in this one.

I'm using tuff cab for the outside of my 1x12, but what paint should I use for the baffle and inside the ports? 

[Mottlefeeder]

17 minutes ago, verb said:

Rather than starting a new topic, I thought I'd ask in this one.

I'm using tuff cab for the outside of my 1x12, but what paint should I use for the baffle and inside the ports? 

I use blackboard paint - it is readily available from diy stores, water based so it is compatible with TuffCab, and it dries matt black.

David

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Awaiting the first person to ask 'What's a blackboard?'

Edited August 9, 2022 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[nekomatic]

I used Rust-Oleum Satin Finish Furniture Paint on mine - seems to stick to anything including PVC port pipe and is available in small pots so you don’t need to spend too much. I will have got it from either B&Q or Homebase. 

[tauzero]

On 09/08/2022 at 20:09, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Awaiting the first person to ask 'What's a blackboard?'

 

Well, you do have to look for "chalkboard paint". Mind you, our blackboards at school (55 years ago) were green.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I've been trying to call my local paint supply store but can't get a dial tone on my phone. 🙄

[Skinny]

A blackboard was something we had to clean for the teachers so they could write on for half an hour for us to copy from to save them speaking to us. 

[verb]

Thanks for the baffle paint recommendations, I went with the Rustoleum in the end.

 

Now I am looking for some advice applying Tuffcab. I want a smoothish finish so am using plain foam rollers. I did a test on an offcut of ply and achieved the finish I want. When I applied the Tuffcab to the cabinet I cannot get the same finish. The painted surface is rough and has little bits on it. The bits come off easily, with a wipe from a hand when the paint is dry, leaving a small white mark. Has anyone else experienced this problem, or have any recommendations to avoid this.

[Downunderwonder]

Run the paint through a sieve first?

[Phil Starr]

Tuffcab is designed for a textured finish so a rough surface is to be expected, even a smooth foam roller will give a textured surface, I use them to get a 'linen' like effect. the paint goes touch dry in anything from 20 mins to an hour depending upon temperature and how thick the paint layer is. At this point you can knock the raised bits off but leave it for a day to fully cure and it lives up to its name ,Tuff. A dry roller will allow a smoother finish until it is fully laden with paint.

 

If that isn't what is happening then you hae problems with adhesion to the surface. Most probably dust from the woodworking build. Before painting anything bruch off any dust then wipe the whole surface to be painted with a cloth dampened with whatever solvent the paint uses. In the case of Tuffcab that is water. Tuffcab isn't compatible with some fillers so if you've used filler and then sanded it you will have problems. Try priming your cab with a mix of 1/3 woodworking adhesive to 2/3 water to seal it.

[verb]

Thank you for your replies.

 

I understand that Tuffcab is designed for a textured finish. I wasn't clear in my post with regard to the finish I had achieved on my test piece, the finish was textured but smooth, if that makes sense. 

 

I don't mind a slightly rough surface, it's the white marks where the raised bits have been that I would like to avoid.

 

I prepared the surface as you described and don't appear to have any adhesion issues. I only filled some screw holes using wood glue and sawdust.

 

I will try altering my application and see if I get better results. 

 

Thanks again

 

 

 

 

 

[Downunderwonder]

I gather the paint doesn't have texture bits in it then. It simply must be left over dust causing the raised parts that have no adhesion or the filled spots would be obvious. I would give it a very light scrape on the white bits and recoat the whole thing. Maybe test a couple of spots first.