i really want a dirty old, knackered valve amp

[matt_citizenbass]

and how much do they go for?

i'm tempted to even trade in my hartke 3500 for it.



thanks,
Matt

[Mr. Foxen]

Me and all the other doomsters are constantly looking out for old valve bass heads. Its like finding an ancient relic amongst ruins, fighting goblins and such. Best is try and spot obscure British made sorts whose names have faded from memory and have thus dissapeared under the radar. My Stak is totally awesome. Simpler circuits are better for bass.

[skankdelvar]

Though some may disagree, lots of older guitar or PA valve heads work fine as bass heads. For years all I used was a 50w Mk2 Marshall and a 2x12. Just loud enough in small venues to get over an AC30, an MM Guitar combo and drums.

When it were all fields round here the most you got were bass, middle, treble and a volume knob (and 100w if you were lucky). Real simple and easy to dial in a good tone.

You may wish to think about 70's names like Sound City, Carlsboro, Simms Watts. There's usually something weird and wonderful lurking on the bay, but be prepared for remedial repairs and a hefty outlay on power tubes which could add another £50-150 to the deal, if you're unlucky.

The good news is that old valve amps are generally easier to service, but somewhat more temperamental. I just brought an old '66 Bassman back from repairs to find that the car journey home had loosened up some components - so back it goes again!

Edited January 13, 2009 by skankdelvar

[matt_citizenbass]

Oh god, this is the exact kind of thingi want and only £250! the thing is though, i'm not sure i could afford to keep it working if you get what i mean, i have enough equipment that breaks every gig at the moment and can't afford to keep changing the valves etc.

Edited January 14, 2009 by matt_citizenbass

[Prosebass]

You might want to try these guys who have been in my area for 35 years. I bought my first "proper" bass amp off them in 1980.

Underground SAI

Primrose Mill/Friday St, Chorley, PR6 0AA

Tel:01257 262447

If I get chance I'll have a look in for you when I'm passing as its 2 minutes from where I am

[matt_citizenbass]

hey prose bass,
if you could check what they have if you get a chance that'd be amazing, because i'm stuck at home ill with no voice at the moment!

do you know whether they'd ship it as well?

thanks,
Matt

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='matt_citizenbass' post='380011' date='Jan 14 2009, 09:47 AM']... can't afford to keep changing the valves etc.[/quote]

You won't need to keep replacing valves if you get a tech to give it a precautionary once over and sort any potential faults, which, barring big issues, shouldn't take more than a couple of hours.

With old amps, the problem isn't valve failure so much as other component failures which might then cascade into blowing a valve, such as a dodgy capacitor, wiring or transformer. If the transformer goes, that can be the expensive one, depending on availability of replacements or modern equivalents.

Valve failure in isolation is comparatively rare these days, as long as you avoid the cheapo brands - go for JJ's, EHX, Sovtek, and you should be OK.

NB, I'm not sure, but the GE-100 may have a solid state pre-amp...check this out, as it may impact on the 'sound' you want - and £250 is not particularly cheap. The thought also occurs that while gtr heads of the 70's rarely topped 100w, there were a number of 200w PA heads, which might give you the 'oomph' you're looking for, plus a bit more clean headroom.

Edited January 14, 2009 by skankdelvar

[escholl]

Just to add to what others have said, a PA head may be the best bet, but if you can find any old head over a 100W then that may do the trick, depending on how sensitive your speaker cabs are and how handy you are with electronics.

Replace the electrolytics, all of them, just to prevent any problems with age. And if you find the bass is a bit lacking, then by changing some of the caps in the signal path to larger ones that should sort the problem. If you've no idea what I talking about then don't worry, it's tough to explain over the internet. But I've done this sort of restoration thing before, and with proper care and attention the results can be really good

As the circuits are much simpler, valve amps can be just as reliable if not more so than solidstate, but since many of them are so old they do need a bit of care and attention up front.

[matt_citizenbass]

thanks for the advice guys. I think a PA head may be the best bet, i think i basically need to try out valve heads to see whether they actually suit my sound i just like the idea of having something thats classic looking, cheap and i can easyily add to my wall of amps to be. but i'm worried they'll be too warm cause my sound is really high endy (octave pedal) plus really distorted and i don't want any of that "absorbed" by the tubes.

when i think of stuff like this i think of Jesse F Keeler from Death From Above 1979 (RIP) ([url="http://www.myspace.com/deathfromabove1979"]http://www.myspace.com/deathfromabove1979[/url]) who swore by solid state amps claiming that the tube transient response (i think) was too slow.

what do you guys reckon?

[escholl]

[quote name='matt_citizenbass' post='380397' date='Jan 14 2009, 04:38 PM']thanks for the advice guys. I think a PA head may be the best bet, i think i basically need to try out valve heads to see whether they actually suit my sound i just like the idea of having something thats classic looking, cheap and i can easyily add to my wall of amps to be. but i'm worried they'll be too warm cause my sound is really high endy (octave pedal) plus really distorted and i don't want any of that "absorbed" by the tubes.

when i think of stuff like this i think of Jesse F Keeler from Death From Above 1979 (RIP) ([url="http://www.myspace.com/deathfromabove1979"]http://www.myspace.com/deathfromabove1979[/url]) who swore by solid state amps claiming that the tube transient response (i think) was too slow.

what do you guys reckon?[/quote]

The transient response is generally a bit slower with tube amps, hence why slap/pop people tend not to use them, the really sharp percussive attack is a bit damped compared to a good SS head.


No inherent loss of high frequencies though, or else guitarists would never use them, although I suppose tube amps can vary as much as SS heads can from one to another. In general though, if anything, tubes will only improve your distorted high end sound.

[matt_citizenbass]

that sounds great! i really want to try some now!

also surely 100 watts all valve head is just ridiculous?

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='matt_citizenbass' post='380511' date='Jan 14 2009, 06:06 PM']that sounds great! i really want to try some now!

also surely 100 watts all valve head is just ridiculous?[/quote]

No, no it isn't.

[matt_citizenbass]

oh really? hmm, maybe i'm a bit clueless about this whole thing then. how would a 100 watt all valve head size up to my hartke 3500 then?

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='matt_citizenbass' post='380814' date='Jan 14 2009, 10:52 PM']oh really? hmm, maybe i'm a bit clueless about this whole thing then. how would a 100 watt all valve head size up to my hartke 3500 then?[/quote]

100w is probably plenty for most purposes, with a reasonably efficient cab. I've got it in my head that the old Ampeg 8x10 are horribly inefficient, which is why ampeg heads are 300w beasts, but that might be wrong. What I was mostly getting at is that my band don't do reasonable volumes, and my 130w head and efficient (if at the cost of colouration) cabinet can only just keep up.

Kinda depends on the sound you want, the whole valves are louder than SS thing is in the clipping and headroom, clipping SS sounds like badness, although it totally doesn't make a square wave thats DC and kills your speakers (other than maybe your tweeter), driving/clipping power valves give you all sorts of awesome warm overdrive, to thunderous roar. So basically you can turn up valves louder without it going bad.

[Prosebass]

[quote name='matt_citizenbass' post='380036' date='Jan 14 2009, 10:12 AM']hey prose bass,
if you could check what they have if you get a chance that'd be amazing, because i'm stuck at home ill with no voice at the moment!

do you know whether they'd ship it as well?

thanks,
Matt[/quote]

If they don't I'll do it for you. Will have a look in tomorrow and take some piccys for you of anything interesting, I've been meaning to re-acquaint myself with the owner as I haven't seen him since 1980...

[pete.young]

[quote name='matt_citizenbass' post='380511' date='Jan 14 2009, 06:06 PM']that sounds great! i really want to try some now!

also surely 100 watts all valve head is just ridiculous?[/quote]
Not at all. My Burman 100w is plenty loud enough, so is my LMII.

[matt_citizenbass]

i meant as in too loud... i thought 100 watts valve was enough to blow someones head off.


so 200 watts should be the right amount for me i want to take down the venues!

[skankdelvar]

As regards removing peoples' heads with 100 valve watts - depends what you're putting it through. A Behringer 15 will take it, I'd imagine, but produce less decapitation action than a couple of 4x12 marshall cabs. IMO.

Didn't Orange recently offer a 200w bass / guitar head? Pricey, IIRC.

And Marshall once produced the 'Major' which delivered 200w. God knows what the VBA puts out, but it's got about a squillion power tubes.

The nice thing about valve amps is you can (if the amp tech's up for it) sit down and try different caps etc to 'fine-tune' your tone.

Edited January 16, 2009 by skankdelvar

[Mr. Foxen]

Mesa 400 is the mightiest valve head I've encountered. Probably posted enough of that pic of the Bongripper bass rig though. You can warm your hotdogs inside it though. Its like a forest inside, if the trees were valves.

[hatori]

Ive just bought Nash's Marshall JCM 800 superlead non master volume amp. Believe me when I say....its feckin thunder personified when using my Thunderbird. Ive got a vintage straight front 4x12 Marshall and for what I do its all brilliant. My Markbass LM2 is now my backup!

[lowhand_mike]

if you can find one then have a look for the Hiwatt 200. they can go for alot of money but you could get lucky.
i did find one recently but before i could finish off my subtle attempt to get my hands on it a major "friend" breakdown in the middle of myself and the owner/keeper prevented any further dealings. so i know of one but just cant get my hands on it, which is probably worse than just not being able to find one.

[Jarhead]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rare-100-Watt-P-to-P-Hand-Wired-All-Valve-Matamp-Head_W0QQitemZ290289913251QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MusicalInstr_Amplifiers_RL?hash=item290289913251&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1298|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318"]Old valve amp[/url] for sale, barely over £100 as well.
Wish I had the cash for it.
Zach

[matt_citizenbass]

[quote]Ive just bought Nash's Marshall JCM 800 superlead non master volume amp.[/quote]

isn't that a guitar head?

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='matt_citizenbass' post='385614' date='Jan 19 2009, 11:35 PM']isn't that a guitar head?[/quote]

Last time I looked...yep! A JCM 800 Superlead is indeed a gtr amp (unless the one above's been modded.

Though, theoretically, any amp is an amplifier of whatever you stick into it.

With Marshall's partciularly, there was't always much difference between the amps. IIRC, some 70's names (Kossoff?) put their Gtrs thru Marshall bass amps.

[hatori]

Correct gentlemen there is virtually no difference apart from a bright cap . By linking the two channels I get some nice tonal variation.
Back in the late 70's I used superlead heads and 4x12's (showing my age now).

Edited January 20, 2009 by hatori