Plain silly statements by those who should know better.

[Baceface]

2 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

Oddly enough most of my bass heroes back when i started were probably pick players too Glenn Hughes, Roger Glover, Chris Squire, Phil Lynott, Gene Simmons, Dave Hope, Mike Rutherford, Roger Waters

i started with pick but moved to finger style as i got more into prog and jazz rock and then there was Geddy who had best of both worlds using finger style but sounding like a pick at times.

Dave

 

I've recently been trying to play along to "You Fool No One" from Burn and the Glenn Hughes part is a bit easier to play with a pick, which is why it's nice to be able to use both approaches.
Made in Europe was the first album I bought and I loved Glenn's playing on those Purple albums.

[dmccombe7]

9 hours ago, Baceface said:

I've recently been trying to play along to "You Fool No One" from Burn and the Glenn Hughes part is a bit easier to play with a pick, which is why it's nice to be able to use both approaches.
Made in Europe was the first album I bought and I loved Glenn's playing on those Purple albums.

Was in a Deep Purple tribute band few yrs ago and it was a challenge covering Glenn Hughes bass sound with my fingers rather than a pick. I had to grow my fingernails to get that click from the Made In Europe era which was my favoured DP era. Not tried a pick on those songs since late 70's 

Dave

[pete.young]

On 27/11/2019 at 13:20, Baceface said:

A

I've regularly heard the criticism "playing the bass like a guitarist" and I worry about it applying to me.

Oddly, I'm not entirely sure what it means, which makes it hard to know what I'm supposed to avoid to keep my sordid, six-string past a secret.

 

If it means '... like Walter Becker on Kamakyriad' I'll take it.

[4000]

17 hours ago, Baceface said:

I've recently been trying to play along to "You Fool No One" from Burn and the Glenn Hughes part is a bit easier to play with a pick, which is why it's nice to be able to use both approaches.
Made in Europe was the first album I bought and I loved Glenn's playing on those Purple albums.

The intro bit, where he first comes in, used to be one of my test lines when trying a new bass. Love his playing and tone on that album. 

[Mastodon2]

On 25/11/2019 at 18:41, Silvia Bluejay said:

Add to that the dreaded

3/ Oh you are left-handed? Nah, just learn right-handed, it's always difficult at the start anyway, and there are more right-handed models available on the market.

[More or less the equivalent of: 'Oh, you are gay? Nah, only sleep with the opposite sex from now on, it'll make your life easier']

Worked for me, albeit as a leftie I decided to go with a regular guitar of my own volition rather than anyone telling me it would be better.

You can say what you like about choice in left handed guitars or basses, but the selection is and always will be massively limited. There isn't a business case for making a leftie version of everything when only 10% of the market will buy it.

I'm fortunate enough to have some incredible instruments in my collection (well I think they're incredible!) which I'd have been unable to play if I'd learned left-handed, as they either were not or are not offered in leftie models, or are one-offs built for right handers which I've been lucky enough to buy used. I'm forever grateful that I made what seemed like a harder choice at first in order to reap the long term rewards.

 

Also the bit about being gay makes no sense. Choosing which kind of instrument to play is in no way comparable to choosing your sexuality.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Mastodon2

[steve-bbb]

On 25/11/2019 at 18:36, Marvin said:

1/ One of my customers is just learning to play guitar, he's in his mid 50s. His guitar tutor asked what his aim was and the chap said he just wanted to play one gig. The guitar tutor replied that he'd need a better guitar. The guitar in question is an Epiphone Les Paul copy. It's in good condition and very playable. My customer asked me what I thought, I said I thought his tutor was talking out of his rear exhaust pipe.

2/ The music teacher at my son's school told my son that bass players don't play with plectrums, so he should only use fingers when he was playing the bass at school. My son told me this so I suggested next time he 'plays' bass at school and the subject of plectrums comes up he just says Bobby Vega or Carol Kaye. I then told my son, who is learning to play guitar, that anyone who wants to be a well rounded player should try to get to grips with all techniques on their instrument.

Being deadly serious, I don't think people, who regard themselves as Music Teachers, and make such nonsense statements should be teaching at all. They're doing a disservice to those they are supposed to be teaching. It may seem minor, however, such narrow minded ridiculousness...well, it boils my waste water!!! 

but number 2 is perfectly correct...

[Crawford13]

On 27/11/2019 at 13:20, Baceface said:

I've regularly heard the criticism "playing the bass like a guitarist" and I worry about it applying to me.

Oddly, I'm not entirely sure what it means, which makes it hard to know what I'm supposed to avoid to keep my sordid, six-string past a secret.

It seems to be an almost automatic response to anyone playing a bass in a busy-ish style with a plectrum. If so, I guess Macca and Chris Squire are guilty then! 

When I think of some one playing bass like a guitar player the traits I tend to pick up on are:

Lack of following the drums;

Poor muting technique leading to a muddy bass sound.

 

[Mastodon2]

1 minute ago, Crawford13 said:

When I think of some one playing bass like a guitar player the traits I tend to pick up on are:

Lack of following the drums;

Poor muting technique leading to a muddy bass sound.

 

Why would muting be poor for electric guitarists moving to bass? Muting for guitar is just as important on bass, particularly when playing with overdrive or distortion. Left and right hand muting techniques are directly transferable between the two.

I use a combination of palm, left hand and floating thumb muting, learned from a mix of playing electric guitar with a pick and acoustic fingerstyle. It was one of the things that just didn't even require a minutes attention when moving over to bass.

 

 

[lownote]

On 25/11/2019 at 19:53, Lozz196 said:

Agree, if someone finds an instrument they gel with, and learn to play it, irrespective of make or technique then well done to them.

1 - Nowt wrong with an Epi Les Paul, some of them are great guitars, virtually all of them are good.

2 - Plectrums, add Bruce Foxton & JJ Burnell into the mix, neither are particular slouches in bass, and using a plec doesn’t seem to have held them back.

Or Anthony Jackson.  If God plays with a plectrum half the time, shouldn't the rest of us take heed?

[Crawford13]

1 minute ago, Mastodon2 said:

Why would muting be poor for electric guitarists moving to bass? Muting for guitar is just as important on bass, particularly when playing with overdrive or distortion. Left and right hand muting techniques are directly transferable between the two.

It just an observation from what I often hear. Obviously good guitarist have good muting and apply it, but all to often I see guitar players having problems keeping unused strings quiet.

[tauzero]

On 27/11/2019 at 13:20, Baceface said:

As a guitar player learning bass, I identify very much with this thought. 

I've regularly heard the criticism "playing the bass like a guitarist" and I worry about it applying to me.

Oddly, I'm not entirely sure what it means, which makes it hard to know what I'm supposed to avoid to keep my sordid, six-string past a secret.

Speaking as one who made the transition 45 years ago, I'd say that if you play (say) A B C D by moving your index finger up three times from the 5th fret rather than playing either open 2 3 open or 5 7 8 5next string, you've come from guitar and you're effectively doing barre chords.

I started playing guitar classically, then went on to play with a plectrum, and when I took up bass, used my fingers. I have occasionally played with a plectrum, and when I play guitar, I play finger picking or plectrum as required. Due to the carpal bone of my right index finger being broken when I was beaten up 40 years ago and not being set properly, my forefinger and middle finger are a bit out of line and that (even now) makes even picking tricky, so for what would normally be fast alternating picking, I may use a plectrum instead.

[Baceface]

On 28/11/2019 at 17:05, 4000 said:

The intro bit, where he first comes in, used to be one of my test lines when trying a new bass. Love his playing and tone on that album. 

I've just listened to that again. If it's the bit I think it is, it's the intro riff that Ritchie turned into "Still I'm Sad" on the first Rainbow LP. 

Glenn's playing in those few bars is wonderful. Just a basic octave riff but his timing and tone are both so cool! I know he'd long since ditched the Ricky by this stage but he still gets a magnificently "clanky" sound out of that Precision. He makes those signature "verrrp" and "vrooop" noises that only he seems to get out of the bass - I guess they might not be that technical but something about the way he plays that's instantly recognisable.  Great stuff.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

13 hours ago, Baceface said:

I've just listened to that again. If it's the bit I think it is, it's the intro riff that Ritchie turned into "Still I'm Sad" on the first Rainbow LP. 

Glenn's playing in those few bars is wonderful. Just a basic octave riff but his timing and tone are both so cool! I know he'd long since ditched the Ricky by this stage but he still gets a magnificently "clanky" sound out of that Precision. He makes those signature "verrrp" and "vrooop" noises that only he seems to get out of the bass - I guess they might not be that technical but something about the way he plays that's instantly recognisable.  Great stuff.

It was a Rick on Burn I think... I'm sure I read an interview with Glenn where he mentioned using the Rick to deliberately retain Roger Glover's sound. Ironic really as his tone was completely different.

[Baceface]

20 minutes ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

It was a Rick on Burn I think... I'm sure I read an interview with Glenn where he mentioned using the Rick to deliberately retain Roger Glover's sound. Ironic really as his tone was completely different.

 

Sorry, I wasn't being clear.

I know Burn was the Rick. He also used that live, definitely at the start of the Burn tour. At some point the Precision took over - he used it at the California Jam for example. Don't know if he swapped between the two for a while so I'm not sure exactly what he used on Made In Europe (I'm stuck with a small phone screen and can't find any big enough shots of the Graz/Saarbrucken/Paris gigs that were used for the album). 

The photos in Made in Europe show a Rick (IIRC) but I think they were taken from an earlier concert.

Funny about the Glover tone thing. Ruger had stuck two diagonally mounted jazz pickups in his Rick as he wanted a different sound anyway!

I think it all goes to show that it's ultimately the player's style that is the most striking thing we hear first and that the difference between instruments isn't always as huge as we think it would be.

[4000]

6 hours ago, Baceface said:

Sorry, I wasn't being clear.

I know Burn was the Rick. He also used that live, definitely at the start of the Burn tour. At some point the Precision took over - he used it at the California Jam for example. Don't know if he swapped between the two for a while so I'm not sure exactly what he used on Made In Europe (I'm stuck with a small phone screen and can't find any big enough shots of the Graz/Saarbrucken/Paris gigs that were used for the album). 

The photos in Made in Europe show a Rick (IIRC) but I think they were taken from an earlier concert.

Funny about the Glover tone thing. Ruger had stuck two diagonally mounted jazz pickups in his Rick as he wanted a different sound anyway!

I think it all goes to show that it's ultimately the player's style that is the most striking thing we hear first and that the difference between instruments isn't always as huge as we think it would be.

So far as I’m aware Europe was the P, despite the cover pictures, although I’ve always wanted to ask him to confirm 100%. Although the bass mix sounds different to all his other live P stuff I’ve heard, I’m pretty sure that’s just the studio at work. 

His Ric didn’t sound much like Roger’s. In fact when I first heard Burn (LP)  I thought his tone wasn’t that great (unlike Roger’s on Machinehead, which is awesome). Listen to the isolated bass on YouTube. However when he switched I didn’t think the P was that great either. Live is a different matter, and the sound on MIE is fabulous. Recently he’s used Rics, Ps and Jazzes and usually sounds great.

Rogers bass on Machinehead was stock. He didn’t do the twin Jazz pickup thing til after.

This was his bass while recording Machinehead and as per the live ‘72 dvd:

 

 

[4000]

FWIW Roger apparently thought his Ric sound was too clanky and distorted. As was pointed out to him when they remastered the album, it’s a sound many would kill for. Thankfully I don’t have to as I can nail it with my main bass, if I so desire.😉

[dmccombe7]

I read somewhere recently about Glenn loving his blue Ric from those early years.

Dave

[4000]

1 minute ago, dmccombe7 said:

I read somewhere recently about Glenn loving his blue Ric from those early years.

Dave

I suspect this was a mixup. The bass he used in Purple was a late ‘72/early ‘73 4001 in Fireglo. It has a skunk stripe and to me, on photos at least, the inlays look like the full width acrylic rather than the full width crushed pearl, which would date it as early ‘73. I’ve never seen a sharp enough picture to be 100% sure though. 

He swapped that bass with Geezer Butler. It’s the same bass Geezer used on the Never Say Die live video, although he only used it because he’d forgotten his main bass! A while back Glenn bought an Azure Ric and IIRC mentioned he’d bought it because he missed his old one. Glenn has said in various interviews over the the years that Geezer wouldn’t sell it him back, as, in Geezer’s words, “I don’t sell me basses” (although I may have read recently that in the end he did, I can’t quite remember). Whilst it’s perfectly possible he previously had another Azure, it wasn’t the bass he used in Purple. 

[Cosmo Valdemar]

9 minutes ago, 4000 said:

 

He swapped that bass with Geezer Butler. It’s the same bass Geezer used on the Never Say Die live video, although he only used it because he’d forgotten his main bass! 

Geezer played that Rick on the Never Say Die album as well, or a least a Rick of some description. Despite what he's said about only ever playing the Rick live. 

[4000]

Glenn and original Ric, Glenn and new (old) Mid/late ‘70s Azure 4001, Glenn and new (old) mid/late 70s Fireglo, Geezer and Glenn’s original Ric:

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by 4000

[4000]

1 minute ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

Geezer played that Rick on the Never Say Die album as well, or a least a Rick of some description. Despite what he's said about only ever playing the Rick live. 

I think that’s the only old Sabbath album I don’t have. I’ll have to give it a listen. I think that’s the only Ric he had at the time.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

1 minute ago, 4000 said:

I think that’s the only old Sabbath album I don’t have. I’ll have to give it a listen. I think that’s the only Ric he had at the time.

It's... not great. Definitely the Rick though.

 

[4000]

1 minute ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

It's... not great. Definitely the Rick though.

 

Oh yes!🤟Maybe I’ll have to buy it anyway, just for the bass. 😉 

That’s one of the slightly confusing things about Made In Europe, because to me the bass sound on that is like a cross between this bass and his usual P sound, which is kind of clunkier (rather than clankier😉). As I said before, probably just studio eq, but still, enough that I’m never quite 100% sure. Of course he could have overdubbed it all anyway for all we know. 😂

[4000]

On 28/11/2019 at 17:05, 4000 said:

The intro bit, where he first comes in, used to be one of my test lines when trying a new bass. Love his playing and tone on that album. 2:55 to 3:07:

 

[dmccombe7]

42 minutes ago, 4000 said:

I suspect this was a mixup. The bass he used in Purple was a late ‘72/early ‘73 4001 in Fireglo. It has a skunk stripe and to me, on photos at least, the inlays look like the full width acrylic rather than the full width crushed pearl, which would date it as early ‘73. I’ve never seen a sharp enough picture to be 100% sure though. 

He swapped that bass with Geezer Butler. It’s the same bass Geezer used on the Never Say Die live video, although he only used it because he’d forgotten his main bass! A while back Glenn bought an Azure Ric and IIRC mentioned he’d bought it because he missed his old one. Glenn has said in various interviews over the the years that Geezer wouldn’t sell it him back, as, in Geezer’s words, “I don’t sell me basses” (although I may have read recently that in the end he did, I can’t quite remember). Whilst it’s perfectly possible he previously had another Azure, it wasn’t the bass he used in Purple. 

Yep that was what i probably read and picked him up wrong. I only ever remember the Fireglo one with DP era. 👍

Dave