DI box, how complicated does it have to be?

[AngelDeVille]

I'm looking at getting a DI box and I see prices for $25 to $400+.

 

I do have a pedal board for effects and would need to run to a monitor, so what features do I need the box to have?

 

Thanks, in advance.

[Teebs]

I have a very basic passive DI:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-DI600P-Ultra-Passive-Box/dp/B000KUA8GQ/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=di+box&qid=1574789382&sr=8-8

Jack input (from bass or pedal train);

Jack output (to amp or active monitor);

XLR output (to desk/ mixer / PA- this is the 'DI' bit);

Ground lift (for earth hum situations).

Edited November 26, 2019 by Teebs

[itu]

Durability. My Countryman type 85 would probably survive, when rats and cockroaches do not. Most of the boxes I have seen are designed to harsh environments, like for gigging bassists.

If the box has a switch for two different signal levels, that is a nice, optional extra.

[Al Krow]

I've often wondered similarly as to what benefit to our live sound a quality DI box actually provides, and whether what you hear using a Behringer DI 400 differs from what you hear using e.g. Radial or Countryman?

[AngelDeVille]

1 hour ago, itu said:

Durability. My Countryman type 85 would probably survive, when rats and cockroaches do not. Most of the boxes I have seen are designed to harsh environments, like for gigging bassists.

If the box has a switch for two different signal levels, that is a nice, optional extra.

 

1 hour ago, Teebs said:

I have a very basic passive DI:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-DI600P-Ultra-Passive-Box/dp/B000KUA8GQ/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=di+box&qid=1574789382&sr=8-8

Jack input (from bass or pedal train);

Jack output (to amp or active monitor);

XLR output (to desk/ mixer / PA- this is the 'DI' bit);

Ground lift (for earth hum situations).

Those both look like excellent choices, I have heard good things about the price per value of the Behringer pedals.  IT looks like I can have one for under $25 US.

 

I haven't heard of the Countryman brand before, it looks very good, and the $150 price isn't out of the realm of possibility.

 

I had also looked at an Ampeg for around $200 but it was more of an amp in a box.

 

What's the benefit of active vs passive for a DI?

 

[itu]

Passive has usually nice low cut close to very low frequencies. Some passive are not very functional with hard impedances, like with piezos.

Active needs always power, internal or external. Internal may be a 9 volt battery or some power supply included. Some boxes eat external power like Phantom from the mixer. You need to check the owner's manuals. If the box has very big input impedance, it eats piezos as a breakfast.

[AngelDeVille]

1 hour ago, itu said:

Passive has usually nice low cut close to very low frequencies. Some passive are not very functional with hard impedances, like with piezos.

Active needs always power, internal or external. Internal may be a 9 volt battery or some power supply included. Some boxes eat external power like Phantom from the mixer. You need to check the owner's manuals. If the box has very big input impedance, it eats piezos as a breakfast.

I only have piezos in my 6&12 string acoustics, so I suppose I could get a box with that in mind. But I already have a dedicated amp that can carry any venues I would use that at.

Power wouldn't be an issue since I intend to at least have a couple pedals available and the board had a supply.

[Jack]

15 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I've often wondered similarly as to what benefit to our live sound a quality DI box actually provides, and whether what you hear using a Behringer DI 400 differs from what you hear using e.g. Radial or Countryman?

That's a good question. I have a cheap Thomann DI an a very expensive LBP DI here, I wonder if there'd be any noticeable differences.

12 hours ago, AngelDeVille said:

I only have piezos in my 6&12 string acoustics, so I suppose I could get a box with that in mind. But I already have a dedicated amp that can carry any venues I would use that at.

Power wouldn't be an issue since I intend to at least have a couple pedals available and the board had a supply.

Not many DI boxes will take Boss-Style power supplies, so watch out. The preamp style ones (like the Sansamps) and the guitar specific ones (like the Mooer) will though. If you have some sort of a buffer on your board then you'd be fine with a passive DI anyway.

[Al Krow]

22 minutes ago, Jack said:

That's a good question. I have a cheap Thomann DI an a very expensive LBP DI here, I wonder if there'd be any noticeable differences.

If you get a chance to A/B at a rehearsal and report back it would be very interesting to get your feedback.

[BigRedX]

On 27/11/2019 at 10:05, Jack said:

That's a good question. I have a cheap Thomann DI an a very expensive LBP DI here, I wonder if there'd be any noticeable differences.

IME in a live band mix you are unlikely to hear any difference at all.

What you tend to get with the more expensive DI boxes (that are just DI boxes with no features other than being able to take an unbalanced signal at a variety of different levels and convert it to a balanced line) is reliability and robustness. I have a couple of EMO DI boxes that I bought second hand about 30 years ago. One of them had obviously had a fairly hard life before I acquired it as most of the graphics on the casing had worn off, but it was working perfectly back then and it is still working perfectly now. 

Interested to see what exactly was inside, I once unscrewed the base to find that all the available space was completely taken up by the sockets and the transformers, with some fairly heavy duty wire joining them all together. There's no way any of the components can move and being a passive device housed in an extremely robust metal case, there's almost nothing that can go wrong. 

I've had "interesting" experiences with some of the more budget DI boxes in that they won't work properly with some equipment. Most notable was the Behringer DI that almost every PA seems to have that simply would not work with The Terrortones Etherwave Theremin. It wasn't an isolated experience either. If the PA was getting no signal from the Theremin, checking the DI box would show that it was the Behringer and replacing it with one of my EMOs would result in the Theremin signal getting to the desk. We never worked out why this was happening, but the theory was that the earthing system on the two devices was incompatible resulting the the output from the Theremin being shorted to earth. Not a good thing for a device that is supposed to sort out equipment interfacing problems.

[AngelDeVille]

I think i confused myself in researching further...

I got to looking at the Electro Harmonix Big Muff bass deluxe pi, and the Electro Harmonix Battalion Bass Preamp and DI.  Also the sansamp, and mxr offerings.

These just add effects?  

 

I also realized that I use the built in amp overdrive with a pedal, so I would bypass that with a di box. No big deal really.

Just to get started I did order the Behringer Ultra-DI DI600P Passive Direct Box. It was $34 US so not a huge investment.

 

 

 

[paul_c2]

5 minutes ago, AngelDeVille said:

 

These just add effects?  

Well no, they have an effect (eg distortion) and the relevant circuitry to output a balanced signal via an XLR socket. Thus, saving the need for another box (a DI box).

Quote

I also realized that I use the built in amp overdrive with a pedal, so I would bypass that with a di box. No big deal really.

 

Do you mean the amp's built in overdrive, which is switched by a pedal (which is a simple switch)?

A lot of amps have a line out (mostly, but not always, as balanced XLR) after the pre-amp so that the overdrive tone is outputted to it. Also, you'd expect an effects send/return to be after this too - you could put a DI box into that, if your amp didn't have a suitable line output.

Edited November 30, 2019 by paul_c2

[CameronJ]

If you’re looking for tiny, durable and reliable - get yourself a Radial StageBug SB2. Radial do several versions geared toward specific instruments and connector types. The SB2 is catered for bass and keys. I’m currently using a couple of these on a live theatre gig and they do the job perfectly with zero fuss. Completely passive. Costs around £60-70 if I recall, and worth every penny.

[Jack]

On 27/11/2019 at 10:29, Al Krow said:

If you get a chance to A/B at a rehearsal and report back it would be very interesting to get your feedback.

 

On 30/11/2019 at 12:12, BigRedX said:

IME in a live band mix you are unlikely to hear any difference at all.

I did a quick recording shootout.

[Al Krow]

Really instructive / helpful - cheers Jack!

[BigRedX]

On 01/12/2019 at 13:04, Jack said:

I did a quick recording shootout.

Thanks for taking the time to do this and the results were pretty much what I expected.

[BassBod]

All you need is a decent passive box, that removes potential ground loops and sounds ok.  After that its bells and whistles.  I'd suggest the Radial Stage bug...the green one.  There are cheaper ones but the quality of the transformer does matter, and you want it to survive, so the general build quality matters as well.  

[paul_c2]

On 01/12/2019 at 13:04, Jack said:

 

I did a quick recording shootout.

Good info! Given the results, I wonder what a pragmatic test of a DI box should be then? Put 5 into a rucksack, shake them thoroughly, then leave it outdoors for a month, retrieve the one at the bottom and see if it still works? (That's not too dissimilar to the situation I'm in - my handy little bag of extra wires, pedals, etc lives in the car; the basics of one 1/4" jack lead and a kettle lead live in the pouch of the bass soft case, which comes into the house in between rehearsals/gigs).

[AngelDeVille]

1 hour ago, BassBod said:

All you need is a decent passive box, that removes potential ground loops and sounds ok.  After that its bells and whistles.  I'd suggest the Radial Stage bug...the green one.  There are cheaper ones but the quality of the transformer does matter, and you want it to survive, so the general build quality matters as well.  

I did commit to the Behringer so I'll see if there is anything offensive about it.

 

I do have the Radial in my wish list, but with the money I save I think I'll get a synth pedal...☺️

[DanOwens]

Its probably old news, but I'd go with Orchid Electronics for all DI needs. Unbelievably cheap, handmade, world-class, superlative-laden boxes!

 

[AngelDeVille]

My Behringer arrived today, and I think it was the right choice for me, for now.

 

The more I read about some of the active and multi effect boxes I am seeing some don’t play well with active pickups, and 2 of my top 4 basses are active.

 

[BigRedX]

10 hours ago, AngelDeVille said:

My Behringer arrived today, and I think it was the right choice for me, for now.

 

The more I read about some of the active and multi effect boxes I am seeing some don’t play well with active pickups, and 2 of my top 4 basses are active.

 

If that's your pedal board and the DI is being placed at the end of it, unless every single pedal is true bypass it won't make a scrap of difference to the DI whether the bass is active or passive.

[Jack]

The Boss tuner is buffered for sure, so as far as the DI box is concerned, you might as well be playing an active bass. Having said that, given that you can use a passive DI, then I think you're doing the right thing by doing so, one less thing to have to worry about as I find asking for phantom power a real minefield and I don't like relying on battery-powered anything.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Jack

[EBS_freak]

On 04/12/2019 at 13:44, DanOwens said:

Its probably old news, but I'd go with Orchid Electronics for all DI needs. Unbelievably cheap, handmade, world-class, superlative-laden boxes!

 

I've got a whole truck load of those things. For a reason. They are awesome.