Valve Amps! Incompatible with some basses?

[ashevans09]

Hi there,

I was having a nerdy gear chat with the geetarist from my blues band today and we got onto the topic of amps. He's fairly knowledgable about bass things considering he's a getard and he made an interesting statement to the effect that he reckoned some basses (more higher brand basses (Bossa, MTD, Fodera etc)) just weren't suited to valvey tones and didn't bring out the best aspects of the bass. I disagreed with him, but I'd be interested to hear what you guys reckon.

So! Is he a getard or a god?

[Mr. Foxen]

Valve amps tend to be more 'coloured' so you'd miss out on some of the sound coming from a bass. Plug a Fodera into a super clean rig, and it will sound like a Fodera. Plug it into a driven Ampeg, and it will sound like a driven Ampeg. Course with guitars, their natural sound is rubbish, and they need amp colouration, if you plug a guitar into a super clean amp it won't sound right at all.

[Delberthot]

exactamundo - guitars need valves. basses do not, but they are nice to have

[acidbass]

Interesting thread! I agree with your mate - Fodera etc are known primarily for their hi-fi sound, and in some senses it's a shame to 'choke' that sound by running it through a gritty valve amp. There certainly isn't anything in this world sweeter than running a Precision bass through an all-valve stack though

[Kiwi]

I don't think he's far off in some respects. In my experience its about how well the colouring of the bass matches the colouring of the valve amp. Warm basses tend to sound better but sometimes even some fairly modern sounding basses can sound good. I've had great results from playing a graphite necked status through a valve amp as well as the more traditional stingray and fender p bass. I'm sure there are probably some vintage instruments that don't sound so good either.

[umph]

i'm sick of this perception that valve amps only do gritty tones, valve amps also do extremely hi fi sounds to just as well as solid state amps if not better, they just distort in a much more pleasant manner

[Kiwi]

[quote name='umph' post='383984' date='Jan 18 2009, 02:08 PM']i'm sick of this perception that valve amps only do gritty tones, valve amps also do extremely hi fi sounds to just as well as solid state amps if not better, they just distort in a much more pleasant manner[/quote]
I'd agree with that to a degree. My strategy 400 power amp acts as my hifi amp at the moment (200w a side - oh yes!) I'd say a lot of 70's amps sound a bit grindy to me like ampeg, Marshall, Hiwatt etc. Nineties stuff like the Eden Vt300 and some of the Aguilar kit definitely doesn't.

I've even played my old Smith 5 through an Ampeg SVT and 8x10 once and it didn't sound too bad. Nice match in colouring I guess.

[Josh]

To be honest, the Valve gain on my TD650 does next to nothing for my tone.

[Dan_Nailed]

IME, valve amps don't drastically colour the sound unless you want them to by cranking up the gain - they just add a little warmth, not perhaps even a quantitative effect but almost like an aural exciter. I would definitely disagree a valve amp will sound the same whatever bass is plugged in, I mean an Ampeg doesn't even sound like an "Ampeg" until you push the Lo button in.

[Noisyjon]

I plug my P bass into a Sadowsky pre amp pedal and then into a Mesa Boogie Bass 400+ rig and it sounds really nice, as it does through the various different (solid state) stacks and combos at rehearsal places.

IMO I think it's another 'ear of the beholder' situation!

The only thing I do dislike with the valve amps is the the bloody re-valving costs

[lozbass]

An interesting thread! I'd agree with some of the arguments advanced above - a lot depends on the valve amp. I spent an hour with a Fodera through an Agi DB750 yesterday afternoon (admittedly a valve/mosfet hybrid). Even with the gain fairly high, the bass retained its hifi, clean, artiulate, slightly compressed sound - in fact, the headroom in the Agi allows the dynamics of my (dreadful) playing to come through really nicely. Also, I was using the bass (an Imperial MG) in passive - the Agi coped very well and really pulled out the nuances of left and right-hand fingering. So, I'd say that a modern valve amp (or pre) will work beautifully with a modern, hi-end bass (to my ears, the Fodera and Agi together worked fantastically well). I'm not sure that the result would be so good with a Marshall, Ampeg, Hiwatt etc. - the kind of grit and break up that characterises some valve amps (especially when pushed fairly hard) may not be suited to the natural characteristics of a modern, hifi bass. I'm hoping to try the Fodera with an Epi 502 later in the week (work permitting) and will try to compare.

Edited January 19, 2009 by lozbass

[Lfalex v1.1]

Interesting indeed.
I'd just like to chuck in that all the components in the signal chain contribute to what you end up experiencing, the cabinets you use and the room you are in not least.
I own an Ampeg SVP-Pro, and it seems fairly even-handed.
You want all-out grit? Crank up the gain and Drive.
Personally, I keep the gain relatively low and add a wee bit of drive to bring out the (even order) harmonics, which sweetens the sound a bit. I don't use the graphic EQ, Hi, Lo or Bright buttons.
There's a relatively good "Clean" tone in there somewhere that works withh most basses.
I use headphones at the moment, and they show up EVERYTHING. The best noises I'm getting right now are by going straight into a cheap (£80) 8track mixer and only using the gain and volume on the channel I'm using plus the master fader. This works well with everything from a Squier VMJ and OLP MM3 to a Vigier and Warwick Infinity.

I think the one of the better compromises for me is a valve pre running a fairly clean tone mated to a solidstate power amp.