vmaxblues Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I am currently considering opening a music shop specialising in guitar and bass for bands, there is a shop in my street which has become vacant and the rent is pretty low. It is only a small establishment. I know this isn't the best time for a start up, but it is an opportunity. I would keep my day job and my friend who would become joint business partner would run the day to day. So, questions: 1) What do you look for in a music shop? 2) What would you ideally like to see in a music shop? 3) How far would you travel? 4) Am I mad to consider this? I have 17 basses currently, plus lots of bits of kit I don't use anymore, my friend has 12 spare electric guitars, we are both capable of setting up the instruments and have contacts in music retail, So initial stock wouldn't be a major issue. I am a Director of a property development company and my potential partner is a painter, so shopfitting won't be an issue. The premises used to be a bookies so it is well alarmed and has steel doors. The two of us are well known locally in the music fraternity. Also the only band related shop that was in town has just closed due to retirement. There are two other music shops in town, one is basically a keyboard shop that does a few guitars, the other is a reasonable establishment that does a bit of everything and would be the only real competition. The fact that the two of us are regular gigging musicians will also help. Anyway, any useful comments would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedontcarebear Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 1) What do you look for in a music shop? Good prices, as cheap as the net. 2) What would you ideally like to see in a music shop? Something other then just cheap stuff, although that is where the money is to be made I guess. 3) How far would you travel? About 20 minutes. 4) Am I mad to consider this? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 [quote name='vmaxblues' post='382505' date='Jan 16 2009, 03:23 PM']4) Am I mad to consider this?[/quote] Not necessarily. Apparently a lot of start ups are making good progress because property prices should be lower and there's reduced VAT and interest rates. Best time for a bank loan etc. Although its a competitive market I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumfrog Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 [quote name='vmaxblues' post='382505' date='Jan 16 2009, 03:23 PM']1) What do you look for in a music shop? 2) What would you ideally like to see in a music shop? 3) How far would you travel? 4) Am I mad to consider this?[/quote] 1) something that ebay killed off - the second hand instrument market. I used to love going in to a music shop and trying out all the weird and wonderful guitars and basses, and at a decent price. It's all new epiphones, squires, fenders and cheap sh*te now generally. 2) same as point 1. 3) 20 miles 4) Right at this current second, probably yes. Maybe if you wanted to do it, now would be a good time to get the stock cheap and wait for the market to pick up, could make a killing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) I know a guy who runs a small music shop in the village where I live and we had a number of shops in the area which have all gone down now. He told me if you don't do the sales volumes, you can't get the discounts and as everyone knows the cheapest price from the net they go elsewhere. His key to survival is teach out of the shop so everyone buys their first kit from him ( he's a drummer) and there is a seperate Computer Repair business run out of there too. He told me all his new stock will be at least 30% more expensive this year and that the reason a well know retailer in the next small town went down late last year was they could not afford to finance their stock any longer and to be honest most of it was very cheap brands anyway like Ashton. So it would appear, if you have the space, make some teaching studios/areas ! Oh, he does have a small selection of guitars and basses, mainly basses I sold him! Edited January 16, 2009 by yorks5stringer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 this sounds a lot like one of my business AS Exam questions!! I second the secondhand stock, i love going and seeing whats about too. It would make me travel further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumbo Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 It's not an easy time to get dealerships in music retail. A lot of distribution companies have tightened their belts since the Sound Control fiasco. I'd recommend getting together a list of potential brands you're interested in and then figure out who's distributing them. Send some emails and back them up with phone calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabootsy Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I must say that this is would be a dream job and it looks like you have enough basses of your own to start a shop I think if the opportunity is there then go for it I like to see a good range of stuff from value to fairly high end I already travel 35 miles to Birmingham even to replace strings All the best if you decide to go ahead with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Pickguard Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 If you need a web site for the shop, give me a shout. I've just started in that business. I might even be able to do a special "basschatters rate" Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photographymatt Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 sound control fiasco? what happened there? I used to go to the stoke SC,got my epiphone lespaul studio from them one or two a*s in there:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantdosleepy Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 [quote name='vmaxblues' post='382505' date='Jan 16 2009, 03:23 PM']1) What do you look for in a music shop? 2) What would you ideally like to see in a music shop? 3) How far would you travel? 4) Am I mad to consider this?[/quote] 1+2) Competitive Pricing (doesn't have to be internet-low, but that ball-park) Funny, friendly staff Honesty about products when pitching ("To be honest mate, I reckon a XXXXX would actually be better for your situation. I'm afraid we don't sell those, though") Amusing friendly signs scattered around about describing the various products Staff who are happy to initiate chat, but are aware that not all customers want to chat Nice range of things, from ££££s slobber-basses to skip-found old junk oddities that can be got for £45 'Musicians/bands wanted' corkboard with some kind of 'Ad of the week' space, like Gumtastic ads to encourage thoughtful/interesting ads/projects Simple web presence with phone number and what's in stock and opening hours and map and info about parking/directions An awareness of the local scene - perhaps putting on the occiasional night at a local venue under the shop's name Quiet/no background music 3) I live in London and am happy to go 30mins each way. 4) Yep. Would you regret not doing it more, though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 You could well be mad, but that's not a reason not to do it! Having previously been a semi-pro musician and music teacher, my Dad ran a small music shop for about 15 years, including through the last recession. I don't claim any expertise, but I do know what his take on this would be. Some thoughts based on what he learnt: The key is to recognise that it is very hard, if not impossible, for an independent to compete with the large chains (Reverb, PMT etc), or the internet. If you stock the same as them, people will simply use you to try out gear, but then buy more cheaply online. So, you need to offer something different. Your added value might be a decent range of used gear, repairs, accessories, rehearsal factilities, teaching, instrument hire etc. Also, tap into what people want to buy locally. You're unliklely to sell many US Fenders in a small local shop, let alone Warwicks,, Laklands, Sandberg etc (even if you could get dealerships). As much as you may want to stock the fancy stuff, the bread and butter is Encores, Staggs and cheap nylon acoustic 6 strings. That's what people buy for their kid's birthday at under £100 a pop. Also look at books. Sheet music and tutor books sell most days and produce turnover, which will keep your head above water while you try to find a buyer for that custom shop Warwick! Getting a good reputation for books will also bring repeat business in - if you get lucky they may take a fancy to an instrument you have in and buy that on spec. Most importantly, get some good business advice (most of the banks provide it free to business customers). The hardest lesson my Dad learnt was that being a competent businessman is much more important than being a competent musician. None of that necessarily reflects what I want in a music shop, but you have to take into account that there are not a huge number of serious musicians out there. There are far more people casually buying stuff for their kids, or cheap stuff for their own use. They're the ones who produce turnover for your business. Just my tuppence worth. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elom Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 As others have posted this is a difficult time to start a business, but not impossible. To succeed you've got to have something that your competitors have not. Can you compete with the Internet? Probably not. So immediately for new kit you have slashed your potential market before you start. People [i]say[/i] that they are happy to pay for good service but when it comes to parting with their wedge most of them don't. The second hand market is basically gumtree and ebay - you may get the best prices but buying unseen is always a gamble. I'd suggest that you concentrate on second hand gear and you might find that people will travel from farther afield if you've got interesting stock - not just squires and epiphones as someone said. And be nice to your customers (even spotty kids who don't look like they've got a fiver) - that alone would set you apart from most music shops! If you go for it then the best of luck. Make sure you have a business plan though, otherwise this just becomes a very expensive hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 [quote name='simon1964' post='382559' date='Jan 16 2009, 04:04 PM']Also look at books. Sheet music and tutor books sell most days and produce turnover, which will keep your head above water while you try to find a buyer for that custom shop Warwick! Getting a good reputation for books will also bring repeat business in - if you get lucky they may take a fancy to an instrument you have in and buy that on spec.[/quote] Good thinking. Nine times out of ten if I'm in a music shop its for a casual look at the available sheet music (stores just don't seem to have the range they used to though) and often walk out with stuff I didn't know I "needed" until I was in there. The opposite seems to happen if the shop is too small and it feels like the staff are on your shoulder. Then I'll chat to them but will be very much about buying what I went in for; just don't feel as comfortable spending the time having a good look at everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 [quote name='Eight' post='382516' date='Jan 16 2009, 03:35 PM']....Best time for a bank loan....[/quote] No it's not. Banks are not lending. That's why, at the moment, a lot of good companies are going under! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Just to add a bit of encouragement this is how Guitar Amp and Keyboard (www.gak.co.uk) started off - during a recession, in a tiny shop selling used guitars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Horse Murphy Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='chris_b' post='382577' date='Jan 16 2009, 04:18 PM']No it's not. Banks are not lending. That's why, at the moment, a lot of good companies are going under![/quote] Sadly very true and also one of the reasons why this recession we're in is very different to the recession of the early 90's. I think you would struggle to obtain any meaningful credit lines with most of the instrument distributors/manufacturers (both credit limits and payment terms) as a start up business considering well-established businesses are having a hard enough time as it is. I'm sorry to be a spoilsport, but I think the initial amount you would have to pay out for stock, overheads etc. due to lack of credit terms/support offered would be too large to make it a worthwhile venture. It could also be a risk to your current Directorship too if anything went wrong with this business. As a businessman yourself, I'm sure you're all too aware of the pitfalls anyway and certainly don't mean to teach you to suck eggs Having taken my business hat off, I say it's a great idea and I wish I had your foresight and ambition myself. Edited January 16, 2009 by Old Horse Murphy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='bumfrog' post='382521' date='Jan 16 2009, 03:39 PM']1) something that ebay killed off - the second hand instrument market. I used to love going in to a music shop and trying out all the weird and wonderful guitars and basses, and at a decent price. It's all new epiphones, squires, fenders and cheap sh*te now generally.[/quote] I couldn't agree with you more. But the reason most small shops stock that cheap sh*te is that this is the stuff that sells. A good question to ask people on here would be when they last spent £500 on a bass from a (new) small independent retailer. I may well be wrong, but I would bet that most of us lucky enough to own one of the ''top brand'' basses either bought secondhand on here, or new from one of the specialist retailers. Sadly, that's something the small independent general music retailers have to take into account when buying in their stock. The stuff that shifts for small local businesses isn't necessarily the stuff we would all like to have a play with in our local store. Edited January 16, 2009 by simon1964 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Pickguard Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I'm always surprised that the instruments hanging up in a lot of small shops are often not set up at all and would put non-savvy purchasers off, so it must be a unique selling point to have new & secondhand instruments that play. Boxed encores from Argos won't be able to compete with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_the_bassist Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I'd say that your main goal is to have lots of everything, always...but with this being completely unfeasable and unreasonable, try to have as much of the little bits as you can. My one greatest niggle when going to a music shop is when they don't have (for example) ANY string sets for a 5string, or no straplocks, or even (as in the case of my local shop) NO STRAPS AT ALL! I think what I'm trying to say is to think of the bits you'd just 'pop out' for, as well as the major items. Being able to always go "yeah, we've got some of 'X' " when asked for something will give the customer the impression that you've covered all basses *ahem* i mean, bases, and that you're the one-stop-shop for all their music needs. I've stopped going to my local shops because of their complete lack of any 5string sets, strap-locks, good padded straps, decent leads, toolkits and spare parts. This has meant either I drive 40mile round trip to winchester (which i do as often as fuel costs allow! Brian Hayward Has Everything!!) or go on t'interweb which isn't ideal. have a huge feck-off [size=6]GOOD LUCK!![/size] from me &t'missus, I'll try and make it to the grand opening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 [quote name='chris_b' post='382577' date='Jan 16 2009, 04:18 PM']No it's not. Banks are not lending. That's why, at the moment, a lot of good companies are going under![/quote] They're not lending as freely, but at this moment if you have a decent track record you can get some very very good deals. Assuming the OPs current business is healthy and his plan is thought through then he could well find himself with banks crawling all over him to lend money. Truth is, banks don't see that many applications for loans other than risky ones or from people with credit issues. Right now they don't want to take any risks. Which is a problem for struggling companies - the banks don't want to lend money to a business which is failing, for obvious reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misrule Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 [quote name='clauster' post='382584' date='Jan 16 2009, 04:21 PM']Just to add a bit of encouragement this is how Guitar Amp and Keyboard (www.gak.co.uk) started off - during a recession, in a tiny shop selling used guitars.[/quote] ... while giving customers a warm welcome and supporting local bands, by all accounts. Cheers Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerboy Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I have to second the importance of all the bits and pieces people need quickly. I use music shops like garage forecourt shops - they're for things I need NOW! So somewhere local that sells, straps, strings, allen keys, machineheads etc would be great. Also things where it isn't worth paying for delivery - pots, switches, knobs, nuts and so on. Oh, and Behringer pedals, where the prices are so low it's not worth paying delivery or waiting. Big ticket stuff I buy online (usually second-hand). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Horse Murphy Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 [quote name='Eight' post='382611' date='Jan 16 2009, 04:45 PM']They're not lending as freely, but at this moment if you have a decent track record you can get some very very good deals. Assuming the OPs current business is healthy and his plan is thought through then he could well find himself with banks crawling all over him to lend money.[/quote] Sadly not the case. This would (I assume) be a start up business with no links whatsoever to the OP's current business other than the OP himself. As a result, unless there was some form of guarantee from the OP or his current business or indeed this new venture being set up as a subsidiary of the current business, I don't think the offers would be as free-flowing as you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerdragon Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 There's a small music shop near us run by a guy we all know. he used to be in bands a while back. took early retirement and had a good payout. he "works" two hours in the morning goes to the pub back to work for another two hours and he does that five days a week. nobody buys much off him because its cheaper to buy online. he's too expensive. overheads and all that, i bought a set of Ernie Balls off him and he charged me £30, you can get them for half that from Stringbusters. i cant afford to support him at those prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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