Thinking of opening a music shop

[crez5150]

As someone who has worked in the MI industry for a number of years..... I'd put your money elsewhere.... honestly.

[Sean.Robinson]

Hi, i think the second hand market is definitely what id love to see, but i think you would also need a good web side to the business to support it. I was amazed when i was ringing around looking for my new amp head the stock people had in, however unless i knew specifically what i was looking for i would have no interest in ringing around again, i like it there on a website, with some good pictures to see exactly what its like.

As for prices i dont think you need to compete with the internet, id prefer to buy from a store if i could simply because i trust it more and its nice to know you have somewhere to go and someone to talk to if something goes wrong.

I havnt read the full thread so i dont know if anyones mentioned this, but i think effects would heavily be worth considering, as there are very few places i can think of with a impressive stock of them ready to try. Also possibly explore the more techy side of music, particularly the audio interfaces as more and more people seem to be more interested in pc recording but many think that toneport is a god and theres nothing else out there.

[Eight]

[quote name='Old Horse Murphy' post='382626' date='Jan 16 2009, 04:56 PM']Sadly not the case. This would (I assume) be a start up business with no links whatsoever to the OP's current business other than the OP himself.[/quote]
I would assume so too. But running one successful business gives you bonus points with the bank. A spot-on business plan and watertight research is probably also essential right now. Maybe, as you said, he would need to personally guarantee the loan - thats between him and the bank to decide.

I don't know if the banks would even consider a music shop at all at the moment - maybe too much competition for them to feel comfortable. And I'm not saying getting money is easy, far far from it. But there is money out there - for the right people. Unfortunately I'm not one of them. All I'm saying is that if you're someone who can get it, now might be a decent time as property is cheaper and interest rates are lower.

[alexclaber]

The thing about GAK is it's in a very popular town with a big music scene (and annoyingly large number of transient BIMM bands) and is close enough to London to even attract customers from there, and they're very big online.

When I think off the investment in stock to have a shop that I'd be interested in visiting the start-up costs seem immense.

More profitable than producing music though, at least you can't just digitally download a pirated copy of a guitar...

Alex

[crez5150]

[quote name='Eight' post='382645' date='Jan 16 2009, 05:11 PM']I would assume so too. But running one successful business gives you bonus points with the bank. A spot-on business plan and watertight research is probably also essential right now. Maybe, as you said, he would need to personally guarantee the loan - thats between him and the bank to decide.

I don't know if the banks would even consider a music shop at all at the moment - maybe too much competition for them to feel comfortable. And I'm not saying getting money is easy, far far from it. But there is money out there - for the right people. Unfortunately I'm not one of them. All I'm saying is that if you're someone who can get it, now might be a decent time as property is cheaper and interest rates are lower.[/quote]


Especially if it's the Bank of Scotland...... (I can hear ex Sound control staff whincing...)

[doctor_of_the_bass]

Give me a shout if you need to buy any stock!

[photographymatt]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='382650' date='Jan 16 2009, 05:13 PM']The thing about GAK is it's in a very popular town with a big music scene (and annoyingly large number of transient BIMM bands) and is close enough to London to even attract customers from there, and they're very big online.

When I think off the investment in stock to have a shop that I'd be interested in visiting the start-up costs seem immense.

More profitable than producing music though, at least you can't just digitally download a pirated copy of a guitar...

Alex[/quote]

BIMM bands? I understand the transient part:-)

GAK are good example of how to do your business,regardless of what you sell. Look after your customers with good prices(while still making profit) and have good after sale support.

[Tait]

there have been 2 music shops open near me in the last couple of years or so. one of them has now closed down, another has changed to being an online shop only. also both shops are still owned by the same people, but just as guitar, drum and bass schools.

i did work experience at one of the shops. i got to say it was terrible how few customers came in. there was very good stock, i thoroughly enjoyed playing the guitars all week. they sold both secondhand and new stuff. they supported local bands (they were even the people who put my band together, introduced me to a couple of guitarists). they were very friendly. but the week i was there they didnt sell a single guitar, the only things that people bought were strings, straplocks, straps and guitar stands. there were three customers all week.

im not trying to be discouraging, but im just telling you what ive seen locally.

[acidbass]

Go for it mate! If you can afford to keep your day job, then you'll have something to fall back on if you have a bad month in the shop etc.

+1 on whoever said about stocking the emergency items, such as strings, leads, straps and so on. It might be worthwhile to set up a repair side of things too, so I'd investigate if there are any luthiers or amp techs around your area who may be willing to strike some sort of exclusive deal with you. Failing that, your mate could always study it during the day if the shop is quiet - a few books and tools to practice with and Robert's your mother's brother?

An online side of your business is also a good idea. It allows you to compete on a national scale, and you'll also find that sometimes people in your local area will find this handier than stopping by your shop, for various reasons. Maybe even an eBay shop?

Hope this helps mate, and I really do wish you the best of luck for your new venture.

Danny

[Pentode]

Where you'll be able to score is [b]SERVICE![/b]!

Have a box of odds 'n' sods to fix up somebodys' instrument that's just done a dive and they've got a gig in three hours time.

If someone doesn't appear to be in a hurry, maybe offer them a cuppa and have a chat.

I'm on my own with my business, and you sometimes have to bust your ass for what feels like nothing, but every now and then it pays off!

Apologies if I've come over as being a patronising pri*ck - just let me know and I'll get me coat!

[Bassassin]

[quote]1) What do you look for in a music shop?[/quote]
Predominantly a good selection of affordable, decent quality [b]interesting[/b] used stuff - as somebody said earlier, Ebay has killed this market and that's the main reason I barely see the inside of a music shop these days. I'm neither interested in £900 US Fenders, or £85 "starter kits".

[quote]2) What would you ideally like to see in a music shop?[/quote]
One of those "No Stairway/Sandman/Teen Spirit/Sweet Child etc" signs. I miss them.

[quote]3) How far would you travel?[/quote]
I think I'd happily go 20 or 30 miles to a shop which had a decent stock of stuff you don't see, never mind get to play every day, where a friendly & knowledgeable staff were happy to let me muck about on anything that took my fancy, possibly for several hours, and even walk out without buying anything. Because I'd go back often, and would go out of my way to give them my business.

[quote]4) Am I mad to consider this?[/quote]
Very probably. But I mean that in a good way.

As far as new stock is concerned, something you might consider is importing your own range of instruments, built to your spec - check these out:

[url="http://stores.ebay.co.uk/CH-GUITARS_Electric-Guitars_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ2QQftidZ2QQtZkm"]http://stores.ebay.co.uk/CH-GUITARS_Electr...2QQftidZ2QQtZkm[/url]

This is a guy in South Shields who imports these from Korea, built to his specs, apparently the factory he uses also makes ESP. I read about these on a different forum, a semi-pro guitarist (plays in a touring Rush tribute) on there raving about the quality for the money. It's worth bearing in mind that half of the old JapCrap brands from the 70s were UK music shops' own labels.

I think a good selection of well-priced & decent quality unbranded parts would be a pretty good idea too, as well as the usual strings & picks type "consumables".

Jon.

[EntropicLqd]

I'll second the "always have strings, straps, and leads" in stock.

The few times I've needed some spares my local music shop hasn't had any stock in. Needless to say I've started ordering multiple sets of strings and leads on-line because at least that way I know I've got some spare.

Good luck if you go for it, but there's probably more money to be made in decent quality practice rooms (complete with well stocked bar/canteen).

[Happy Jack]

Loads of good stuff on this thread so far.

Finance Director hat now ON:

What kills most shops, especially small ones, is having too much money tied up in stock and hitting a cashflow hiccup they can't get through. Look for ways to avoid carrying stock you've paid for. Wunjo's in Denmark Street always has a fascinating selection of second-hand oddballs; almost invariably they belong to customers and are being sold on commission.

Start monitoring eBay ALL the time for unusual instruments and/or amps in your region which fail to sell. Contact the vendor and ask if they'd like to try selling through your shop. Some/many will say 'p1ss off' but it doesn't take many 'Yes' answers to provide you with a great range of interesting stock at no cost to yourself. EBay will probably try to sue you if they find out.

If you go with the music books & learning CDs, take them ONLY on sale or return. Ditto with the strings and other bits & pieces. If the supplier says 'No', find another supplier. If they all say 'No', ask yourself how badly you want to sell egg shakers and plectrums.

Avoid like the plague trying to sell cheap brands and starter kits. They'll tie up your money, fill up your shop with crap, and when you manage to sell one the profit margins are wafer thin.

A more general business-killer (i.e. not just retail) is specialisation. If all you sell is 4-string R/H solid-body basses, then you're obviously far more vulnerable than someone who sells a wide range of bass types. Take that to its logical conclusion (especially in a relatively small town like Hereford) and you need to take many of the suggestions from others here and do ALL of them.

Get a luthier to set up a workshop in one of the spare rooms upstairs. And a valve amp techie. Make sure that someone in the shop has the know-how and the tools to make up custom cables. Turn the cellar into practice/teaching space. Convert the out-building into a rehearsal space. If you still have any space, find a local tattoo artist or something. Some of these WON'T WORK but that's the whole point of diversification - SOME WILL.

Contact the Weekend Warriors program and find out if they have anything running in/near Hereford. If they don't, ask them if they'd like to ...

Finance Firector hat OFF / Bass player hat ON:

Good luck mate - wish I had this as an option.

[synaesthesia]

There are two income streams in music retail:

1. selling music merchandise for a profit
2. servicing the 'continuing' musos

The first income stream, dwarfs the other.
Also, a large share of the first income stream is made up of high profit, quick turnover items.

There will always be invariably more teenagers looking for start up kit to try their hand at the craft, wanting cheap and cheerful kit and they are an annually renewable 'resource'; than there are people who have not given up, but have perservered with playing music beyond their teens, professional or otherwise.

Good luck.

[Delberthot]

One way my local music store has managed to be successful is by supplying the local schools with strings, sheet music etc.

Also, if there are battle of the bands contests, offer a bit of sponsorship. Not huge amounts but enough to get your name out there.

Both of these actions will ensure that all the kids & their parents will see your name and come to your store.

[budget bassist]

1) What do you look for in a music shop?
[color="#FF0000"]A good range of stock of different prices and brands, not a wall full of US fenders. Competetive prices and good service, you put those two together and you shouldn't need to have high prices to make money.[/color]

2) What would you ideally like to see in a music shop?
[color="#FF0000"]like i say, a good range of stock, as dangerboy said, a good stock of parts too, i always have parts emergencies and can never find any without buying from allparts. A good range of strings is always nice too. Some good mid-high end amps, it's stupidly hard to find a shop that sells a good amount of mid to high end amps.[/color]

3) How far would you travel?
[color="#FF0000"]I've been known to travel to the next major city around (I live in derby and i've been to leicester looking for good music shops, i'd be willing to go to sheffield, derby etc too, so about 50 miles)[/color]

4) Am I mad to consider this?
[color="#FF0000"]Probably, but some more shops like the gallery would be nice![/color]

Edited January 16, 2009 by budget bassist

[skankdelvar]

1) What do you look for in a music shop?

Old, interesting s/h stuff. But what I want is probably very different to someone else. It's worth having a look at NAMM's web site (and it's British equivalent whose name escapes me) to view the data they have on musical instrument sales trends - various downloadable PDF's available.

2) What would you ideally like to see in a music shop?

As above, but at prices only marginally above private sale cost!! Well, you did ask! Personally, I think there's a need for a source of verifiably fit for purpose, quality old gear, at realistic prices.

3) How far would you travel?

On a regular basis - 20-30 miles. For special one-offs, up to 100 miles

4) Am I mad to consider this?

Only if you're swayed into starting a business simply by the availability of premises. First off, there's a premises cost. Secondly, what about it's position / location? Are you going to have to buy advertising just to tell people where it is and where to park? And will your town support a guitar shop? And is there any money these days in 'general' guitars?

Might you not be better off launching a specialised offering - say basses or bass amps only - to minimise competitive exposure ? And doing it as a home-based, nationally-targeted, online offering - avoiding premises costs and the cost of local "directional" advertising. Better to be narrower and national than wide but local?

What it comes down to is - do you want to own a shop or do you want to sell guitars?

If the former, then there may be more profits in selling something else - like home security or cheap car spares ...and, in any case, isn't retail tanking at the moment?

If the latter, it's worth looking at the classifieds here and seeing what's selling and working out whether you could turn a profit out of a marginal mark-up. As they say, there may be a gap in the market, but is there a market in the gap?

If you want to talk marketing at any time, feel free to PM me.

Edited January 16, 2009 by skankdelvar

[tauzero]

1) What do you look for in a music shop?

What I look for is something I very rarely see - as others have said, secondhand instruments.


2) What would you ideally like to see in a music shop?

A wide range of secondhand instruments, including everything I want for a tenner. Well, I'll settle for a pre-91 5-string fretless Thumb. For a tenner.

Strings, plectrums, etc are good things to hold in stock for the casual visitor.

Staff who are knowledgeable, not too pushy, and psychic, so they know exactly when I'd like a bit of help.

Headphone amps for the Saturday afternoon shredders.

Signs saying that people are welcome to play but if someone else wants to try the same gear out, they must be prepared to take turns.


3) How far would you travel?

There is actually a little second-hand instrument shop about 25 miles from me, and if I actually felt I had some disposable income (things are still a bit tight at the moment), I'd be wandering over there once a month or so (and telling him to let me know if there's anything really interesting).

I used to be a regular visitor to Musical Exchange, before they became Sound Control in Brum. That's about 15 miles.


4) Am I mad to consider this?

Does it matter?

How much can you afford to lose?

[bassbloke]

Part of the reason ebay killed off the 2nd hand market is that people are very short-sighted. Someone will wince at the prospect of putting an instrument in a shop on a commission sale, despite the fact that people are able to try it out, get a run down on the guitar and owner because they think it's cheaper to flog it on ebay.

Well, it might be cheaper to list it on ebay, but wait until you see the final value fees.

That said, I would be wary of the 2nd hand route. A shop near to me used to have a great mixture of interesting new and used. The owner then decided he couldn't be doing with the hassle of having to commit to guaranteed quantities with the larger makes and switched to second hand. Over the course of 6 months, his stock gradually dwindled down to nothing but total dross and no one bothered going in any more.

The local shops to me that are thriving have tapped into the schools market - sheet music, tuition and instrument rentals. Much as it pains me to resort to class stereotypes, you do get a better class of customer. Then again, Kingston Upon Thames, Esher, etc.. are unashamedly middle class areas.

[OldGit]

IMHO trying to sell mainstream gear against Reverb, PMT, GAK and the high street chains, well established competitors and the online guys like Thomman would be business suicide, even if you could get finance and supplies.

The only success story I know of for a new music shop business like this is Bass Direct where almost ll hs stuff is exclusive to him and generally top end. He has alternatives to the other places like the Gallery so that the competitive aspect is limited.

I doubt there's room for another shop like that.

[OutToPlayJazz]

Hi Stuart, I really hope you get this little project off the ground. As others have said, it's a very risky time to be starting new ventures, but perhaps it's not so bad & the only way really is up?!

In answer to a couple of your questions, I'd say that most existing musicians want a warm welcome, a coffee & a chat about gigs/gear. Quite often they'll buy an instrument. Sometimes they won't, but they'll always come back to see what you've got in stock at any given time. New musucians want decent quality gear at reasonable prices that won't break the bank.

As for travel... I'd travel nationwide to see a mate & check out some cool basses - But only on school holidays! I'd have no time to get to Hereford during term time, as we know it's a 3.5 hour run from my visit the other week! In addenum, why won't people travel these days? What's all this "up to 20 miles" stuff all about?

If you do decide to go ahead with it, best of luck & I'm sure you'll do well, mate!

Rich.

Edited January 20, 2009 by OutToPlayJazz

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='thedontcarebear' post='382514' date='Jan 16 2009, 03:32 PM']1) What do you look for in a music shop?

Good prices, as cheap as the net.[/quote]

I'm prepared to pay a bit more to buy something in a shop, but not a whole lot more.

[josh3184]

I'd love to do what you're doing, good luck!

[Prosebass]

[quote name='vmaxblues' post='382505' date='Jan 16 2009, 03:23 PM']So, questions:

1) What do you look for in a music shop?

2) What would you ideally like to see in a music shop?

3) How far would you travel?

4) Am I mad to consider this?[/quote]

1. Neat , Tidy , well organised , clear prices , Knowledgeable / helpful staff ,

2. Good selection of what I am after , somewhere to try stuff (sound booth) , good secondhand selection. Coffee and biscuits and the shop smelling nice.

3. Nationwide if they have an interesting selection of stuff I want !

4. Not at all

Do your research and stick to a couple of themes. Most shops tend to cover every base and thats where they fall down.
Secondhand is good (even buying your stock from ebay) Remember not everyone can afford a New USA Fender
Customer service is paramount and yes your prices will be more than the web but people don't mind that if they get the service, a brew and a natter.
Read, read and do some more reading on business and how others have made their shops a success.
Set your goals before you start as to what you are trying to achieve.
Do your costings and business plan and go see an accountant.
Set up as a Limited Company (its got lots of advantages your accountant will explain)
Be realistic and re-invest as much as you can.
Parking must be available either outside or adjacent to your shop (I know this through bitter experience)
Ideally buy the shop if it has accommodation over it. An investment in itself long term.
If you do decide to go ahead keep it under your hat until you are ready to launch.
Make sure you sell my short scales when I get them organised

Anything is possible and you may not succeed at the first attempt but you need the mindset and the commitment.
I took a business from scratch to £250,000 PA turnover in 3 years but unfortunately our overheads were always a bit more so I would have been better off sitting at home but I learned a hell of a lot (better than Uni or a course) and as well as the basses me and Mrs Prosebass are looking at other ideas at the moment.
Best of luck and if you need a list of good books to read just PM me...

Edited January 20, 2009 by Prosebass

[Eight]

Turnkey in London was always my favourite music shop. You went in and they just had everything out from guitars to whole DAWs/sequencers that you could play on - didn't even need to ask the staff first. Spent so much money in there.

I'm told they closed down or moved or something.