Thinking of opening a music shop

[yorks5stringer]

Whilst I take your general point , I think there has been some positive stuff as well around "adding value" and offering lessons/rehearsal space in addition to straight sales side.
I'm sure the OP is intelligent enough to not base (!) his business plan solely on the feedback of 70 or so very odd cyberbassists ( this correspondant included)!

Edited January 24, 2009 by yorks5stringer

[thepurpleblob]

To be blunt.... have you the cash to do this?

Do you have the cash in the bank to run the business, buy stock and eat for six months if NOBODY walks in the door in that time? If you don't then don't do it!!

That's the reality of starting your own business. You can put what you like in your business plan but if you are starting up stone-cold with no reputation or established customer base it will be very hard going to start with. I know because I did it some years ago (a car audio store - same sort of thing)

[OldGit]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='390324' date='Jan 24 2009, 12:36 PM']Whilst there is merit in good advice if everyone listened to the doubters with regard to any enterprise no one would be doing anything !
I personally wish vmaxblues every success in this venture and its our responsibility as a community to support him.
We all bemoan the passing of family owned shops in our hometowns yet we all shop at Tesco. We watch our main streets decline yet we all shop on line !

Just to say "it won't work" or "those days are gone" isn't helpful and not constructive in anyway. With the correct attitude anything is possible it depends how hard you are prepared to work for it.
A lot of people are happy in their "comfort zone" picking up a wage slip every month and would never risk anything to try a business venture which can be worrying , exhilarating and fun at the same time.
I don't see how those people can advise someone else on running a company when they have never done it themselves.
Its a bit like business advisers who have never run a company wtf !!!!
Running your own business has a certain attractive edginess about it that is hard to explain.

A friend of my was sacked as a director of a company last year when the other directors turned on him. He went straight out and started a new company. 12 months on he is opening his second shop in direct competition with the old company he worked for. And as for the company that sacked him , they are struggling and may go out of business. How did he do it ? bloody hard graft.
Anytime is a good time to start a business you just gotta have a passion for it.

And a last word of advice.....don't think everything in the bass / music world is reflected in basschat ! 80% of the basses I have sold have been sold elsewhere.

(ducks and runs for cover.... )[/quote]

ha ha yeah consultants, eh?

Well some of us do run businesses ... and bands ... and are consumers and customers of bricks and mortar shops, music and otherwise.
And... have objective and pragmatic views..

You really don't have to have done something yourself to have valuable input into whether it's a good idea.

I agree with purpleblob .. If you have enough dosh to do that, go ahead and have a go.

Another positive experience is Jam guitars in Bristol. Specialist individualistic guitar shop selling customs, one offs, specials and boutique amps and efffects things. They have the odd bass now and then. Though I am not privvy to their financial sitation they do seem to be doing OK.
[url="http://www.jamguitars.co.uk/"]http://www.jamguitars.co.uk/[/url]

[Protium]

[quote name='vmaxblues' post='382505' date='Jan 16 2009, 03:23 PM']1) What do you look for in a music shop?
Friendly staff who know what they're talking about
Good range of instruments and amps
Abundant stock of accessories - strings, straps, cables, books/music etc
Good prices
Second hand gear
Notice board advertising gigs, available musicians, gear etc

2) What would you ideally like to see in a music shop?
Lessons
Setup/repairs

3) How far would you travel?
Up to 30 miles

4) Am I mad to consider this?
Yep [/quote]

[Prosebass]

[quote name='OldGit' post='390700' date='Jan 24 2009, 10:30 PM']ha ha yeah consultants, eh?

Well some of us do run businesses ... and bands ... and are consumers and customers of bricks and mortar shops, music and otherwise.
And... have objective and pragmatic views..

You really don't have to have done something yourself to have valuable input into whether it's a good idea.

I agree with purpleblob .. If you have enough dosh to do that, go ahead and have a go.

Another positive experience is Jam guitars in Bristol. Specialist individualistic guitar shop selling customs, one offs, specials and boutique amps and efffects things. They have the odd bass now and then. Though I am not privvy to their financial sitation they do seem to be doing OK.
[url="http://www.jamguitars.co.uk/"]http://www.jamguitars.co.uk/[/url][/quote]

Yeah bloody consultants.....
Like anything else good one and bad ones.

All I was getting at Si is that glib off the cuff remarks without substance, reasoning or example are pointless !
But then again there is a lot of that on here...

[noelk27]

If what I was told by a sales assistant at Reverb on Saturday is true, then it would appear that the Reverb chain is being sold, and a number of the stores are set to close. This may explain why the prices of certain ranges have been slashed - the ones where the stock is wholly owned by the chain - although the suggestion that certain items are being sold "without warranty" did strike me as being curious from a legal standpoint.

This after another local store that always had a significant number of used instruments in stock closed last year. A few weeks before the shutters came down for the last time, when I was browsing the final bargains, I asked why the store was closing, and was told that the balance of sales had shifted so that more stock was being sold online or on eBay than on retail premises, and that it had become uneconomical for the retail store to try to compete with the big online retailers on the new lines stocked. As far as the people I was talking with were concerned eBay has decimated the demand for high street shops to sell used instruments - even without the chance to try before you buy the infinite variety on offer beats any and all competition.

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='noelk27' post='391374' date='Jan 26 2009, 01:04 AM']If what I was told by a sales assistant at Reverb on Saturday is true, then it would appear that the Reverb chain is being sold, and a number of the stores are set to close. This may explain why the prices of certain ranges have been slashed - the ones where the stock is wholly owned by the chain - although the suggestion that certain items are being sold "without warranty" did strike me as being curious from a legal standpoint.[/quote]

there's no legal requirement to provide a warranty.... you still have the rights the "sale of goods" act gives you regardless.

[crez5150]

[quote name='noelk27' post='391374' date='Jan 26 2009, 01:04 AM']If what I was told by a sales assistant at Reverb on Saturday is true, then it would appear that the Reverb chain is being sold, and a number of the stores are set to close. This may explain why the prices of certain ranges have been slashed - the ones where the stock is wholly owned by the chain - although the suggestion that certain items are being sold "without warranty" did strike me as being curious from a legal standpoint.

This after another local store that always had a significant number of used instruments in stock closed last year. A few weeks before the shutters came down for the last time, when I was browsing the final bargains, I asked why the store was closing, and was told that the balance of sales had shifted so that more stock was being sold online or on eBay than on retail premises, and that it had become uneconomical for the retail store to try to compete with the big online retailers on the new lines stocked. As far as the people I was talking with were concerned eBay has decimated the demand for high street shops to sell used instruments - even without the chance to try before you buy the infinite variety on offer beats any and all competition.[/quote]


Yes I've been hearing rumblings for a few weeks that Arbiter is in serious financial trouble yet again.....

[Kiwi]

Ebay also traversed geographical barriers too. Before ebay, it was a lot harder to find out if there was something of interest outside your town unless you accessed a store's website. Having said that, Ebay has been feeling the pain for a number of years. I've noticed a gradual decline in both the quality and quantity of instruments and gear available. I suspect this is mainly because of Ebay's pricing strategy. They've become more expensive over the years for any sellers who haven't signed up as power sellers.

[crez5150]

Plus the fact that Manufacturers are putting the clamps on e-tailers which stops product being sold way below street pricing.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='crez5150' post='391411' date='Jan 26 2009, 07:52 AM']Plus the fact that Manufacturers are putting the clamps on e-tailers which stops product being sold way below street pricing.[/quote]
If that is happening, surely that would be anti-competitive in the EU at least? I know a number of US based companies do it, such as Ernie Ball and to me it looks like brand loyalty from its customer base is what allows them to get away with it. If Lakland started offering substantial discounts online I wonder what might happen to EB then? Would they become entrenched and risk losing a greater share of new customers or would they try to compete?

[crez5150]

I think it depends on the manufacturer..... You have to remember that a lot of them have European hubs nowadays which means that UK retailers will be buying in Euro's. Even large american companies such as Harman work this way.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='crez5150' post='391427' date='Jan 26 2009, 08:41 AM']I think it depends on the manufacturer..... You have to remember that a lot of them have European hubs nowadays which means that UK retailers will be buying in Euro's. Even large american companies such as Harman work this way.[/quote]
Some of the US companies seem to have a direct from manufacturer price and then outside the US, there's another price which includes a margin for distributors. If a US based company has a European manufacturing base, then I hope they're prepared to offer a European direct price too. I suspect this isn't the case, however.

[crez5150]

Again I think it depends on the manufacturer.... I know that the company I work for have manufacturing in both Europe and America (well Mexico) and the pricing does vary a bit but they are addressing a global pricing policy ATM. I think it makes complete sense from a manufacturers point of view as it helps them retain their market and in turn helps the retail stores (bricks and mortar type) retain their profit margins.

Obviously in the world of Bass equipment it's a much more niche market so I guess the manufacturers are more likely to offer direct pricing. I know that for instance the restructure of pricing for Status Graphite means that those in the US get a better deal at present.

[thepurpleblob]

Runaway discounting is a double-edged sword. It's great for the customer until low margins become unsustainable for the manufacturers and retailers and then shops close and brands disappear.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='crez5150' post='391441' date='Jan 26 2009, 09:24 AM']Obviously in the world of Bass equipment it's a much more niche market so I guess the manufacturers are more likely to offer direct pricing. I know that for instance the restructure of pricing for Status Graphite means that those in the US get a better deal at present.[/quote]
So is this one example of a UK manufacturer who prices better for an overseas market but not their own domestic market? (Essentially the reverse of the US examples above). Or is this a result of the exchange rate?

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='391443' date='Jan 26 2009, 09:25 AM']Runaway discounting is a double-edged sword. It's great for the customer until low margins become unsustainable for the manufacturers and retailers and then shops close and brands disappear.[/quote]
Absolutely, its not easy for retailers who have significant overheads to stay competitive. Badly managed retailers even more so. I know for sure that some retailers feel like they're being treated as testing centres for online purchase decisions. Maybe the way forward is to become wholly internet based to reduce overheads but offer walk in testing facilities in a cheap location (is this an option for you vmaxblues?) Or alternatively take advantage of Basschat's Bass Bashes, which are essentially self funded at the moment.

[crez5150]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='391480' date='Jan 26 2009, 10:19 AM']So is this one example of a UK manufacturer who prices better for an overseas market but not their own domestic market? (Essentially the reverse of the US examples above). Or is this a result of the exchange rate?[/quote]

Absolutely.....

[artisan]

if you open your shop i wish you the best of luck mate
personally i prefer to buy my basses form a shop as i like to make shure the one i'm buying is a cracker (i'm a pretty good judge btw ) where as buying from the net is a lottery as you may get a cracker or a crapper.
in the last 3 years i've spent a fortune in local music shops,let me think--EBMM 'RAY / MIA JAZZ / VM JAZZ / MIM P / CORVETTE D'BUCK / CORVETTE FRETLESS / MIM 60s JAZZ / CIJ '51 P / MIA DELUXE P / CUBE 30 / SVT3PRO/ B410HLF + various straps & leads.
i think i believe in supporting my local shops - - - good on me

[basswesty]

I have a good contact at Headstock Distribution (Laney/Ibanez/Tama etc) they are in West Mids. He has also stated that they haven't been hit too much in the current climate so maybe the trade won't be too bad if you're careful.
Incidentally, I would travel from Stourbridge if the prices were right.

[OldGit]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='391219' date='Jan 25 2009, 08:52 PM']Yeah bloody consultants.....
Like anything else good one and bad ones.

All I was getting at Si is that glib off the cuff remarks without substance, reasoning or example are pointless !
But then again there is a lot of that on here... [/quote]




Here's an example of what I assume is a guy selling used basses and guitars from his spare bedroom.. (and on ebay)

[url="http://www.classicandcoolguitars.co.uk/info.htm"]http://www.classicandcoolguitars.co.uk/info.htm[/url]

Maybe you could start like that to gauge the market, demand, supply, work and costs involved.
There's not fiddly little bits and pieces, no 50 quid starter packages making 50p profit and, I assume, no Saturday jammin' oiks to deal with.


He says he sources from the states so there's a huge increase in cost of stock from just this last 6 months ...

WRT the original questions, I think his testimonials page lists everything you need to know - it's all about attitude, customer care, customer relationships, service and communications and, of course, good stock.
[url="http://www.classicandcoolguitars.co.uk/testimonials.htm"]http://www.classicandcoolguitars.co.uk/testimonials.htm[/url]

[Steve_nottm]

[quote name='OldGit' post='393429' date='Jan 28 2009, 09:31 AM']

Here's an example of what I assume is a guy selling used basses and guitars from his spare bedroom.. (and on ebay)

[url="http://www.classicandcoolguitars.co.uk/info.htm"]http://www.classicandcoolguitars.co.uk/info.htm[/url][/quote]

That's an amazing little website. Really like the look of what he does and will be keeping an eye on it for new stuff. How did you find him?

[Prosebass]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='391480' date='Jan 26 2009, 10:19 AM']Absolutely, its not easy for retailers who have significant overheads to stay competitive. Badly managed retailers even more so. I know for sure that some retailers feel like they're being treated as testing centres for online purchase decisions. Maybe the way forward is to become wholly internet based to reduce overheads but offer walk in testing facilities in a cheap location (is this an option for you vmaxblues?) Or alternatively take advantage of Basschat's Bass Bashes, which are essentially self funded at the moment.[/quote]

The whole cost argument is driving many retailers in many sectors out of business especially in the present circumstances.
Do we all just want to buy from the internet ? its sterile, lacks interaction and I for one would not buy a bass over £250.00 on the web without trying it unless I had previously owned an identical model ( or it was just for polishing )
As with most businesses a certain amount of capitalisation is required and generally the big players are able to do this and get better deals from the manufacturers by buying in bulk but as we have recently seen some big players in retail have gone to the wall.
The great thing about small independents is they can change their business plan and adapt easily and quickly and with low overheads can stick it out better than than a large corporation in times like this as margins are generally greater.
I would hate to live in a world where the only options for buying were multi-nationals and on-line...

Edited February 2, 2009 by Prosebass

[OldGit]

[quote name='Steve_nottm' post='393574' date='Jan 28 2009, 12:22 PM']That's an amazing little website. Really like the look of what he does and will be keeping an eye on it for new stuff. How did you find him?[/quote]

Yes it looks good.
Found him via an ebay listing he had.

[MacDaddy]

When I was younger, I hated most music shops. They were intimidating places. I'd walk in, and there would be a couple of staff sat behind a counter usually chatting with a couple of their mates drinking tea and smoking (I'm going back a few years!). They would all stare at me as I walked in and usually not say anything. I'd feel uncomfortable and just want to get the hell out of there

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='397933' date='Feb 2 2009, 02:58 PM']When I was younger, I hated most music shops. They were intimidating places. I'd walk in, and there would be a couple of staff sat behind a counter usually chatting with a couple of their mates drinking tea and smoking (I'm going back a few years!). They would all stare at me as I walked in and usually not say anything. I'd feel uncomfortable and just want to get the hell out of there [/quote]

...and how things have changed, eh?

Oh, my mistake. They haven't changed at all.

Back to the point. I'd like to deal with someone intelligent and helpful, whether online, in a shop, or even in their garage.

In fact, I probably buy online specifically to minimise my interaction with the pondlife that infests many shops.

Edited February 2, 2009 by skankdelvar