Speaker/Cab simulation technology

[mcnach]

These days, you have your Helices, Kempers and various others that give you a very very good sound, straight from guitar to desk. Recording guitars have never been easier. Kids today don't know how good they have it, even if the better units are definitely pricey.

Today I was tidying up and found my old Behringer V-Amp2. I'm pretty sure I bought mine in 2001... it's nearly 20 years old! But it's not half bad. I was surprised to still like some of the amplifier simulations it's got as much as I remembered. There's a newer version out but I'm not sure how much better it'll be.

 

I remember struggling a lot to get a half decent sound from electric guitars into my old multitrack recordings. I was either living in student dorms or in flats, sharing, and cranking up an electric guitar just wasn't something I could often do at home. Especially if you tend to get inspired at 2-3am like I did.

My first attempt to address this was with a Zoom 2020. They cost £229 in 1994. I still remember that because it was a LOT of money for me in those days. The headphone out claimed to have speaker emulation. It was dire. Better than nothing, but dire. 

I then managed to get a Boss GX700. It was over £400, a little rack unit. This one actually didn't sound bad. It had all the effects I could ever want and then some, you could route them in different ways, combine them, do all kinds of stuff. It was a great orange box of wonders, especially in 1997. Still expensive, but there wasn't much that was any better that was affordable to little people like me.

Then, over the next few years, something changed. First it was Line6, I think. The mighty POD. It made my GX700 sound pretty prehistorical, emulation-wise, although as an FX unit the GX700 remained much better and I would still be happy to use one as the effects were... well, typical Boss: most may never be the best of the best, but they do the job very adequately. Then came the Johnson J-Station, the Behringer V-Amp, a bit later Vox brought out the ToneLab... Zoom started including much improved emulations in any FX unit... and I lost track. I lost track because I found one unit that I was pretty happy with for my purposes.

I tried everything that I could, and at one point I even owned simultaneously the J-Station, Vox ToneLab, V-Amp and a borrowed POD.

The J-Station was pretty cool. It had a certain quality that the others didn't. It felt more realistic, but I also felt it was a bit muddy. So, realistic as in "real mic'd amps, just not mic'd very well". Still... it took me a while to sell it because I felt it was special and some of its models were very good. The ToneLab was not very good. Beautiful unit, many physical knobs, which were welcome, but... nah. I preferred the POD and the V-Amp. And after a bit of a-B comparisons, I settled on the V-Amp. The fact that it was the cheapest unit was a happy coincidence. 

Behringer has been criticised, rightfully, for copying other manufacturers' designs left and right, however, their V-Amp was a pretty cool unit that showed a degree of innovation. Soundwise they were as good or better than anything else you could buy those days. I actually liked them better. They also came up with a user interface that made a lot more sense and was friendlier than anything else anybody else was doing at the time. Lots of physical knobs,easy and intuitive to edit... and LEDS THAT ALLOWED YOU TO SEE WHAT EACH KNOB WAS SET AT.

At last! Someone got it!!!  That feature alone was enough to make me want to keep the V-Amp over its competitors. It was funny when Line6 brought out their "pocket POD" which also used LEDs in the same way, soon after. So Behringer being copied?

I ended up with rack units for both the guitar and bass V-Amp2 which I used in my little home "studio". Pretty versatile, good sounding and cheap units.

Then I stopped recording, sold most things, and kept the V-Amp2. It needed a little battery to make it work properly again [*] but here it is... and it sounds great. I'm about to move house and I was planning to set up something to do some recording in the new place, so I'm tidying up, getting rid off things I don't use anymore etc. But this little V-Amp is going to be back in business again

 

[*] There is an internal battery, much like the ones in PCs, which is not described in the manual. When it gets old, it resets the unit, it loses the presets, and frankly it sounds pretty bad. I remember seeing comments about these things malfunctioning and sounding horrible and people just dumping them. Then I found out about the battery and I managed to tell about it at least to another two people who were about to dump theirs, and a battery change is all they needed. Crazy. How could they forget something like that in their manual?

[jrixn1]

How about the SansAmp, which was released in 1989.

[MacDaddy]

The Marshall sim was particularly good. It would not have fooled any purists, but it was a very useful great sounding amp (sim) in its own right.

[mcnach]

23 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

How about the SansAmp, which was released in 1989.

 

Oh yeah! How could I forget them??? I just never had one. I remember looking at the PSA-1 in magazines but it was out of my price range at the time.

I have played through one of their Trademark 30 or 60 combos, I forget which one it was. It had switches for 3 different types of amplifier, 3 gain models, and 3 cabinets I think... and it sounded really good.  

[mcnach]

4 minutes ago, MacDaddy said:

The Marshall sim was particularly good. It would not have fooled any purists, but it was a very useful great sounding amp (sim) in its own right.

 

Are you talking about the Tech21 sims? 

It was the Marshall one that I really liked on the Trademark combo.

If you mean the V-Amp... it's also the Marshall sims that I liked best:

- Brit Hi Gain, based on the JCM800, a great 'rawk' sim

- Brit Classic, based on the 1959 'Plexi' 100W

-Classic 50 W, another 'Plexi'

The last two felt really well made for me. They are perhaps not an accurate representation of the real thing, but they are good sounds, and respond beautifully to the the guitar's volume. I like to have my volume (on a strat, with a humbucker at the bridge) backed off a little, and select a nice crunch sound that responds to both dynamics and the volume knob, giving me pretty clean or pretty dirty and fat sounds with small tweaks straight from the guitar. 

[songofthewind]

Wowser, the V-Amp! I had one, which I re-chipped to turn it into the Mk2 version. You could buy Pre-programmed EPROM’s from some manufacturer in the U.K., and do it yourself. What larks!

I used the V-Amp live for several years. A lawyer friend of mine, who has so many vi take guitars and boo-teek amplifiers it’s scary, heard a recording I did with it, and wanted to know how I’d gotten such a cool tone! You should have seen his face when I told him.

I went over to a Zoom G3, which I still have. I like it for delays and some modulation, in tandem with my B3n.

On Gumtree I recently found a Johnson Mirage JT-50 112 combo for thirty quid.
Basically a J-Station with an amp. I really dig it! The effects and delays are great. Also it does a very passable Fender Twin style clean, which is the only guitar amp sound I use. The worst thing about it is that it smells like it was kept in a curry house.

But, of course, I’m much better now that I’ve come back to playing bass, so please don’t be angry with me.

[songofthewind]

“Vi take “ is autocorrect for “vintage”, in case you’re wondering.

[mcnach]

3 hours ago, songofthewind said:

Wowser, the V-Amp! I had one, which I re-chipped to turn it into the Mk2 version. You could buy Pre-programmed EPROM’s from some manufacturer in the U.K., and do it yourself. What larks!

I used the V-Amp live for several years. A lawyer friend of mine, who has so many vi take guitars and boo-teek amplifiers it’s scary, heard a recording I did with it, and wanted to know how I’d gotten such a cool tone! You should have seen his face when I told him.

I went over to a Zoom G3, which I still have. I like it for delays and some modulation, in tandem with my B3n.

On Gumtree I recently found a Johnson Mirage JT-50 112 combo for thirty quid.
Basically a J-Station with an amp. I really dig it! The effects and delays are great. Also it does a very passable Fender Twin style clean, which is the only guitar amp sound I use. The worst thing about it is that it smells like it was kept in a curry house.

But, of course, I’m much better now that I’ve come back to playing bass, so please don’t be angry with me.

 

The J-Station had some really nice Fender-esque clean sounds. A JT-50 for £30? I'd have bought it too! Nice one!

[stingrayPete1977]

The first studio recording I ever did I lumped my Ashdown rig along and mic'd it up in the vocal booth to "get my sound" , the next time we went we used a guitar Vamp like that for the guitar tracks and I used the bass version (was it green?) , I've never recorded a physical speaker since.

Stingray plumbed straight into the desk and I'll play along to the track via the studio monitors in the control room.Job done.

[songofthewind]

You do realise, mcnach and stingrayPete, that we are talking purest heresy?

[super al]

I bought the V amp after reading about it in bass guitar magazine! Used it mainly for home practice and then at rehearsal when we had silent rehearsals at the drummer's house. We all plugged in to his PC and then used headphones to hear the mix!

Happy memories, I just use a TC electronic bh250 for practice and rehearsal now.

[leftybassman392]

6 hours ago, songofthewind said:

You do realise, mcnach and stingrayPete, that we are talking purest heresy?

If you're looking for the small willies big cabs thread, you'll find it here.

No need to thank me.

[mcnach]

9 hours ago, songofthewind said:

You do realise, mcnach and stingrayPete, that we are talking purest heresy?

 

I know! I mean... Guitars! Digital emulations! and the B word!!! (not that one, i meant BEHRINGER!!!)

The triumvirate of  evil to many

 

After a few hours playing, I was able to remember how to play Sweet Child of Mine. Once I remove the cobwebs from my memory and I get Stairway to Heaven and Smoke on the Water, I'll be ready to go down to Guitar Guitar and torture them for a while. I won't leave until I get a discount on some DR strings 😛

 

[mcnach]

It gets worse: I just ordered a new trem arm for the Floyd Rose, as I can't find the original. I know it's stored somewhere but can't find it).

Next on the list: a proper hair-metal wig

[songofthewind]

Floyd Rose?! Shush, somebody will hear you!!

[cytania]

Cheap multi effects units are a great way of learning what the plethora of effects do without having to buy each pedal. I had a Vamp2 and before I moved it on I was struck by how synthy the effects now sounded. My ears had moved on but it served it’s purpose.

[mcnach]

4 hours ago, cytania said:

Cheap multi effects units are a great way of learning what the plethora of effects do without having to buy each pedal. I had a Vamp2 and before I moved it on I was struck by how synthy the effects now sounded. My ears had moved on but it served it’s purpose.

 

Yeah, I was never a fan of its effects. A bit of reverb but nothing else. However the amp/speaker simulations sounded pretty good, and still do.

[cytania]

In the high numbers of the presets were some great synthscape simulations that worked really well with bass and could unleash your inner Hawkwind 😎

[mcnach]

58 minutes ago, cytania said:

In the high numbers of the presets were some great synthscape simulations that worked really well with bass and could unleash your inner Hawkwind 😎

 

I already waste enough time as it is, don't give me new ideas!

 

[adamg67]

I had a V-Amp 2 like that, looked like a kids toy, cost something daft like £70 and was a total eye opener. It ended up getting replaced by a Vox Tonelab which was definitely better but missing those LED endless rotary encoders that the V-Amp had. Now I just have an iRig and amplitube for guitar (already had the IPad Pro so bit of a no brainer), but then I'm not much of a guitarist. When I got back into the bass I just went straight for a Markbass Multiamp (complete with LED rotary encoders) and if/when that ever gets replaced it will be with another modelling rig, if not something like the iRig.

The V-Amps (along with Line 6) must have opened a lot of people's eyes to the fact that modelling was coming of age.