deaver Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Numpty advice time again Im afraid. I'd like to put together a preamp/poweramp/cab rig but I'm struggling to find coherent advice regarding the power amp/preamp combination. I think I've got the cab concept sorted in my head, however... 1. Bass-specific power amps seem to be well pricey - is this a necessity for a decent tone? 2. How well matched (if at all) do the amps have to be? 3. Can anyone point me towards a good web resource? 4. Can anyone show me any working examples - something that would be feasible at a second hand price of £200-300 All advice/recommendations welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 [quote name='deaver' post='383525' date='Jan 17 2009, 07:56 PM']Numpty advice time again Im afraid. I'd like to put together a preamp/poweramp/cab rig but I'm struggling to find coherent advice regarding the power amp/preamp combination. I think I've got the cab concept sorted in my head, however... 1. Bass-specific power amps seem to be well pricey - is this a necessity for a decent tone? 2. How well matched (if at all) do the amps have to be? 3. Can anyone point me towards a good web resource? 4. Can anyone show me any working examples - something that would be feasible at a second hand price of £200-300 All advice/recommendations welcome[/quote] 1. Bass-specific power amps seem to be well pricey - is this a necessity for a decent tone? Not necessarily. It really depends on the tone you want- I use a Boss VF1 effects unit as a preamp with the effects bypassed, and other people use things like the Avalon U5 (I think) or microphone preamps which is not instrument specific. 2. How well matched (if at all) do the amps have to be? If you mean the pre and power amps, not really IMO. All a power amp should do is make your signal louder. 3. Can anyone point me towards a good web resource? Try doing a search here on the amps forum of Talkbass maybe? 4. Can anyone show me any working examples - something that would be feasible at a second hand price of £200-300 Boss Vf1 + BK electronics power amp module +cheap 1x15"= total cost slightly over what you're looking for, but you can probably get a 2nd hand Ebay power amp within budget, especially if you can handle a bit more size and weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Sorry but IMO opinion for that budget you are wasting your time. If you were spending £2-3K though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceguyhomer Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 (edited) I'm with bass_ferret, you need to think of spending a lot more than that IMHO. If you're on a budget, why go the pre/power route anyway? Edited January 18, 2009 by niceguyhomer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaver Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 Velvetkevorkian; thanks for the advice. I've had time to do a little more research on here and am starting to get a clearer picture. I'd had a look around before but must have been looking in the wrong forum as I coudn't turn anything up. [quote]Sorry but IMO opinion for that budget you are wasting your time. If you were spending £2-3K though?[/quote] Whatever [quote]I'm with bass_ferret, you need to think of spending a lot more than that IMHO. If you're on a budget, why go the pre/power route anyway?[/quote] I'm not on a budget as such. That was just a figure knocking around in my head. I'm just interested in what can be done - I'm only a hobbyist with no pretensions to anything grander. I should also have added that the £300 figure excluded the cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 You're going pushing it at £300 even second hand. You're going to need to add about another 150-200 to be realistic. Remember you're going to need to budget for a rack case to hold the units and maybe for some special cables if your going single-output pre amp into a stereo power amp. Also any power amp within your budget is going to be very heavy compared with modern amps. My last rig comprised a Pod2 XT Pro, and a 600+600 Class D amp in a 4U case. Total including cables and rack power distribution around £1000 new... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='383694' date='Jan 18 2009, 01:31 AM']Sorry but IMO opinion for that budget you are wasting your time. If you were spending £2-3K though?[/quote] ... and BF jumps in with both feet first! 1. Bass-specific power amps seem to be well pricey - is this a necessity for a decent tone? No. 2. How well matched (if at all) do the amps have to be? Don't 'have' to be at all. 3. Can anyone point me towards a good web resource? Hmmm... No. 4. Can anyone show me any working examples - something that would be feasible at a second hand price of £200-300 Again, No but I've owned a couple examples (Tech21, BBE, H&K Fortress into variously Peavey DPC, Yamaha, Carver) which cost a bit more than your budget but certainly nowhere near even £1k. You could get a used preamp for not a lot of money depending on what you want and power amps these days are relatively cheap (even new) though you could obviously spend silly money if you wanted. Actually thinking about it I reckon you could put together a pre/power rig for not a huge amount more than £300 especially if you are open to trying some early preamps (Yamaha did a 2U one iirc) that may look a bit dated but do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 [quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='383536' date='Jan 17 2009, 08:15 PM']1. Bass-specific power amps seem to be well pricey - is this a necessity for a decent tone? Not necessarily. It really depends on the tone you want- I use a Boss VF1 effects unit as a preamp with the effects bypassed, and other people use things like the Avalon U5 (I think) or microphone preamps which is not instrument specific.[/quote] Sorry, I misread the "power amp" here as "preamp". As Mr Hunt said, bass specific power amps aren't necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Its my opinion and I am sticking with it. Cant see the point at that price and if thats not the budget then why say it is? And I am Mr Hunt as well, but not so obviously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 You could always go with one of those Thomann own brand T-amps, or even a Behringer amp. Then you could pick up a decent rack EQ for between £1-200 and that in theory is all you need (excluding the cab of course). I'd recommend something like a valve compressor too if you're into that, those DHA rackmount models look great. And there you have a perfectly decent rack setup, all-in for about £600! Certainly not 3k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaver Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='384391' date='Jan 18 2009, 09:37 PM']Its my opinion and I am sticking with it.[/quote] Fair enough, I don't believe you are known for your prevarication. [quote]Cant see the point at that price and if thats not the budget then why say it is?[/quote] The price was a loose bottom end estimate based on a trawl of the sale threads here and on ebay and wasn't meant to be an absolute nailed down budget (though that abviously wasn't clear in the original post) I'm still interested in garnering opinion on this as I'm a bit puzzled by the whole thing. I'll try and post something more coherent tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I have 2 preamp/power amp set-ups. Both have a valve preamp going into a 2-channel power amp. Main one: Aguilar DB680 + Eden WT1000. Way out of your budget. I think it cost me around £1100 in total. 2 x 500 Watts. Spare one: Warwick Quadruplet + QSC RMX850. Possibly [i]just[/i] within your budget second-hand. 2 x 300 Watts. Don't bother with a bass-specific power amp (says the guy who has one and swears by it). It's probably not worth the extra money for your needs. The advantage of a preamp/power amp set-up is flexibility: you can get the tone you want with the power output you need - and you can upgrade/change one without having to change the other. If you want a small, light-weight option, this is probably not it (although the first example photo doesn't look all that big). Any preamp/power amp set-up would realistically be between 2U and 5U in size, with 3 or 4U being the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaver Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 Many thanks for the replies, an interesting mix of opinions as always. I like the flexibility suggested by The Funk and his backup rig looks like the sort of thing I might look into. BeLow, I'd be interested to see how your finished setup works out. I don't really know which route I'll take in the long run, I started the thread partly to provoke a bit of debate - the pre/power amp setup seems to be poorly served for aged amateurs like myself (there may well be a good reason for this). Still more than happy to receive any more wisdom or opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceguyhomer Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I got really good results using an EBS Microbass II powered by a s/h Yamaha amplifier - total cost to me: £450. I dunno if the bass made a difference but it was a Bongo 5HS (high output) and the cab was an Epifani UL310 (very efficient). There will be a way deaver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 How about a pre amp 'pedal' type unit (MXR, Sans Amp, Sadowsky, Aguilar, etc) into a power amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='acidbass' post='384432' date='Jan 18 2009, 10:10 PM']You could always go with one of those Thomann own brand T-amps, or even a Behringer amp. Then you could pick up a decent rack EQ for between £1-200 and that in theory is all you need (excluding the cab of course).[/quote] That'd work with an active bass, but if you were using passive you'd need something to match the high impedance of the bass to the low impedance of the EQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Let's go bargain hunting! Power amp: Up until recently this was available - 400W power amp for £95 - [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=38568"]Click here[/url]. Not available now, but don't say there aren't bargains to be had. Pre-amp: I use an [url="http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=ART+tube+MP+preamp&meta="]ART Tube MP preamp[/url] and I like the sound. I got mine for a bargainous £37. Doesn't do anything bad to it and warms it up slightly. No eq though, so you could try the [url="http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=ART+tube+MP+studio+preamp&btnG=Search&meta="]Studio version[/url] that has built in eq curves (I believe) to suit different applications. That is £59. Eq: Until I picked up my new bass I used the [url="http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=Boss+GEB-7&meta="]Boss GEB-7[/url] just to dial in a touch of bass and treble. That is £65. Again, good sound, not noisy, good feature set, allows flexibility. So... minimum price would've been £132 (second hand amp + Art Tube MP). Highest price would've been £219 (second hand amp + Art Tube MP Studio + Boss GEB-7). And only the amp was second hand. If you could find the other components/alternatives second hand you'd be laughing. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I just picked up an 800w stereo 1u digital power amp for £90 which I will use with my Vbass as the pre - cheap and easy! The BK electronics one looks superb too and they are great people over at BK. They will be coming to BC soon with some special offers, so watch this space... Cheers ped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 *SHAMELESS PLUG* How about my very nice [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300286912939&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=020"]Crown XTi-1000 power amp[/url], now for the bargain price of 300 quid? I used it with a Focusrite Trakmaster pre-amp... this is actually intended primarily as a vocal recording channel strip, but makes a fabulous bass pre-amp too thanks to its brilliant compressor and clear, transparent tone. Vocal pre-amps like this and the TL Audio stuff are well worth considering if a clean uncoloured tone is your cup o' char. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I like your description/listing Rich! Good stuff. ped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaver Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Puts down violin and pipe. Dons deerstalker. "Excellent Watson, the game's afoot". Not sure it really works with a bald Mancunian in the lead role but here we go anyway. I'll let you know how I get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tl Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 [quote name='ped' post='389804' date='Jan 23 2009, 05:06 PM']I just picked up an 800w stereo 1u digital power amp for £90 which I will use with my Vbass as the pre - cheap and easy! The BK electronics one looks superb too and they are great people over at BK. They will be coming to BC soon with some special offers, so watch this space... Cheers ped[/quote] What make/model would that power amp be? £90 sounds like a bit of a bargain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Here we go: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150322544472&mfe=sidebar"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...amp;mfe=sidebar[/url] Looks OK - it won't be used a great deal so unless it takes my face off I will be happy! Cheers ped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tl Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Hmm, interesting. Any idea on the depth of that thing? All the 1U class-D amps I've come across (albeit in a fairly limited search) are stupidly deep, and hence won't fit in to a standard rack case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GremlinAndy Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 You say that the pre - power set up isn't well served... but the choices of pres out there is staggering IMO. And as for power amps, well since just about any PA amp is suitable as the power stage behind a 'bass specific' pre, ...you can find them everywhere in all sizes, shape, wattage, and weight. Easy peasy. It's great having the flexibility... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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