wateroftyne Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 OK - best advice I can give you, then... YouTube, your bass & a cup of tea. Have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='mcgraham' post='386241' date='Jan 20 2009, 03:30 PM']Touche... I don't quite agree, but I can't deny there are a lot of immensely knowledgable but dire musicians out there.[/quote] Well, you can't teach someone to have an imagination - that's all I'm saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Eight, I don't pretend to speak for everyone, I was merely making an observation that was my opinion. As for the rest of your post... it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. [quote]I just have 10 songs to learn in a week (plus full time work, family, etc.) in a style of music I've never really even listened to, let alone played. I'm not planning to churn out shed loads of mass-produced country songs using major pentatonics with a few minor thirds thrown in, I just want to prepare for the audition in the easiest way possible.[/quote] Hence what spurred me to write the lengthy post above. [quote]Well, you can't teach someone to have an imagination - that's all I'm saying.[/quote] It's true. Although I would say that a person can develop creativity through study; I certainly did. Or perhaps I merely provided myself with the artistic tools with which to express what was already there... *throws up violently* Sorry, I'm allergic to pretentiousness. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='mcgraham' post='386350' date='Jan 20 2009, 04:25 PM']Or perhaps I merely provided myself with the artistic tools with which to express what was already there...[/quote] I'm with you on that, minus the vom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) [quote]I'm with you on that[/quote] It's a bit hard to reliably tell which it is. How can one tell whether they will be a creative musician or not before embarking on a long period of in depth study? I'd be pretty bummed if I knew all the stuff I did and couldn't write or make one bit of interesting music. Equally so I can't imagine NOT being able to do so, knowing all the stuff I know! That statement is not intended to be boastful, I just couldn't imagine someone having [i]really[/i] learned all such relevant material and then NOT being capable of coming out with interesting music. However, that doesn't seem to stop some musicians... and I use that term loosely. Mark Edited January 20, 2009 by mcgraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='Galilee' post='386296' date='Jan 20 2009, 03:51 PM']in a style of music I've never really even listened to, let alone played.[/quote] Without putting a downer on the subject. Thats exactley the impression you dont want to give at an audition. Maybe its worth immersing yourself in plenty of the style of music involved. Just listening, and getting a vibe for it. Rather then maybe worrying about scales and modes. [ worry might be the wrong term ] You might find you are going to an audition and hating the music, [ and that will show ] Or on the other hand, you might think i love this stuff [ and that will show ] Whatever happens good luck with it all. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) [quote name='mcgraham' post='386371' date='Jan 20 2009, 04:37 PM']How can one tell whether they will be a creative musician or not before embarking on a long period of in depth study?[/quote] Nothing wrong with a long period of in depth study. Everyone on these boards who has a strong opinion of theory v. feel has undertaken a long period of indepth study. The only problem with some music schools is that they get everyone to study the same sh*t. I have a friend who's a guitarist at ACM. Whenever he tells me what songs they're making them learn I laugh because it's always without fail the most obvious one. Having said that, I've seen a few players from ACM and the like who are killer. But I don't think the schools encourage them to discover their own voice or develop their own approach to music. They seem to emphasise solely playing something that fits. Edited January 20, 2009 by The Funk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote]They seem to emphasise solely playing something that fits.[/quote] I'd edit that to say: 'They seem to emphasise solely playing something that [i][u]they think[/u][/i] fits.' When I first started playing I listened to a lot of Primus. I was amazed at how it sounded. I'd started listening to music relatively late for a child of my generation (mid teens) and had no preconceptions about music. I couldn't tell you what they were doing, all I could tell you was that it didn't sound 'right' in the theoretical sense of things, but it fitted so well. I wanted to know why that was. However, the worship director at my church completely quashed my attempts to mess around with these ideas in practice. Because they didn't fit 'to him'. Fair enough I hadn't got it down at that point and they weren't working, but to him it was 'wrong', so he wanted it gone. I soon realised this wasn't going to be beneficial for my musical development so I worked on it a lot in my own time, just figuring out what was being played by ear, figuring out theoretical reasons for why it worked, and then identifying more qualititative ways of identifying why I liked stuff and why I didn't. This last part worked wonders for my ear. Essentially, all I'm wanting to add is that preconceptions are often the biggest killer of creativity and musicianship. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) [quote name='mcgraham' post='386350' date='Jan 20 2009, 04:25 PM']Eight, I don't pretend to speak for everyone, I was merely making an observation that was my opinion.[/quote] Sure thing. [quote]as for the rest of your post... it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me[/quote] Ok, I'll try to put my opinion a little blunter. If you're talentless, then it doesn't matter if you know music theory or not. If you're talented, you'll find a way thats best for you to use to that talent. Maybe that includes theory, maybe it doesn't. I do not believe music theory stifles creativity one bit. Music theory does not tell you to do anything; its not rules and its not a prescription. Its theories and explanations. Understanding cadences does not restrict you from using any note available to you on your instrument to end your measure/piece etc. etc. Just in the same way as a fairly adequate knowledge of English grammar and spelling doesn't prevent me from typing something like "lolwut n00bs" as a stylistic parody of World of Warcraft players. I certainly don't recall anyone credible saying that music theory is a replacement for ears; and I would never say that you must must learn music theory if frankly, you don't want to. But to suggest that it is actually detrimental to creativity is completely unfounded. Edited January 20, 2009 by Eight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiltmilk_2000 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Theory versus feel? surely either is seriously diminished without the other? I started the thread about minor modes which was mentioned earlier in this discussion. I wasnt looking for someone to supply a magic answer or anything... or to tell me what to play when... And I dont think our original poster here was either. More I wanted to understand the theory of minor modes so that I could analyse what I already play (through feel!) and try to see why it works or why I like what I like. You've got to have parameters and rules so you can decide when to break them! Sometimes i think the less knowledgable on these boards (myself included) can rub people up the wrong way simply because our lack of understanding leads us to phrase questions in a way that makes it sound like were looking for someone to come along with a magic wand. Personally I think the fact that someone is on a forum like this, looking for answers and to improve as a musician, says they are prepared to actively go out of their way to improve their knowledge of theory AND how to use that theory with feeling. what's so funny 'bout bass love and understanding?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) [quote name='spiltmilk_2000' post='386465' date='Jan 20 2009, 05:44 PM']I started the thread about minor modes which was mentioned earlier in this discussion. I wasnt looking for someone to supply a magic answer or anything... or to tell me what to play when... And I dont think our original poster here was either. More I wanted to understand the theory of minor modes so that I could analyse what I already play (through feel!) and try to see why it works or why I like what I like. You've got to have parameters and rules so you can decide when to break them![/quote] I totally agree with what you said - but I often think that last expression doesn't help. To people who don't like the idea of the theory side, it might suggest that music theory is somehow a rule that "learned" people follow and ignorant/rebellious/creative people do not. Which in my opinion, is untrue and unfair. edit: I guess saying that perhaps you need to understand the convention before you break it doesn't have much of a ring to it. I prefer to think about music theory as a way of qualifying and quantifying elements of music. It gives people a way of discussing music in detail (as opposed to a vague comment like 'moody' as I used in another thread). As you said, working out how/why you like certain things in music (other people's and your own) and sharing those opinions. Analysing effectiveness - particularly in your own music e.g. you wanted a certain feel, but why didn't you get it. etc. There are benefits when writing music too. I've never said that anything you learn from music theory can't be similarly achieved by people who never study it. For me, I *know* it helps - the more I learn the more productive, creative and inspired I am. Others have to do what seems right for them. Edited January 20, 2009 by Eight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I thought most country bands got up in arms if you use anything more exotic than root and fifth? That's a dead easy scale... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirky Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Have a listen to 'She' be Gram Parsons, a lesson in country/ballad bass playing. No idea who the player is. Major scales, root and fifth, minor scales when required. Martin PS Good luck with the audition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoBass Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Regarding country bass, I believe it was Dave Pomeroy who said, "Think of the simplest thing you can play and play half of that." Care to post the list of tunes you're working on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirky Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [quote name='GonzoBass' post='387113' date='Jan 21 2009, 08:16 AM']Regarding country bass, I believe it was Dave Pomeroy who said, "Think of the simplest thing you can play and play half of that." Care to post the list of tunes you're working on?[/quote] +1. What are the songs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galilee Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 I've pretty much nailed these now I think. Just repetitive practise required now for familiarisation. They're a mix of country rock (I guess) and rock 'n' roll standards. Life in the Fast Lane - Eagles Peaceful Easy Feeling - Eagles Tequila Sunrise - Eagles If Tomorrow Never Comes - Garth Brooks (hate this one!!) Walk of Life - Shooter Jennings Blue Suede Shoes - Elvis Presley I Saw Her Standing There - The Beatles (this is much busier than I expected) Blueberry Hill - Fats Domino F.B.I. - The Shadows Call Me the Breeze - Lynyrd Skynyrd They also want me to pick a song where I'd take lead vocal for them to learn. I'm thinking Turn The Page by Metallica (or Bob Seger), which is about the countriest thing in my collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Have a look at the Southern Rock thread in Off-topic if you want some ideas for tunes to do lead vocal on. Some of those tunes above don't look so country to me - do they play them differently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galilee Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Lord knows, maybe. Or possibly they just threw an audition list together and filled it out with a few rock 'n' roll 'standards'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 You could try doing Blueberry Hill in the style of Richie Cunningham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galilee Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 I kind of default to doing them all in the style of Ryan Martinie at the moment. I need to roll off the treble and dig in less.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoBass Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 May I suggest a tune for you that might fit with that list? Chuck Berry's "No Particular Place to Go" is very singer/player friendly. (verses occur between the riffs and no difficult vocal notes) [url="http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/No-Particular-Place-To-Go-lyrics-Chuck-Berry/09DE2BCA4792CCDF48256BCA0023692F"]Lyrics Here[/url] You could grab the mp3 or midi file easy enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirky Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Another good one is Move it on Over - Hank Williams did it best. Just straight rockabilly really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galilee Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 Got the gig. Thanks for all of your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_the_bassist Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 [quote name='Galilee' post='394901' date='Jan 29 2009, 08:26 PM']Got the gig. Thanks for all of your help. [/quote] woohoo! nice one mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 [quote name='Galilee' post='394901' date='Jan 29 2009, 08:26 PM']Got the gig. Thanks for all of your help. [/quote] Good sh*t! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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