Can someone please explain Warwick pricing?

[Newfoundfreedom]

I had a Double Humbucker Warwick Thumb many moons ago, which if I remember correctly, I paid about £1200 for new. 

Now I'm seeing Warwick's at all kinds of prices, at both ends of the spectrum.

Can someone please explain to me the range and pricing structure?

I've figured that the Rockbass is kind of the equivalent of Squire to Fender, i.e the mass produced in the far East somewhere range. But what's going on with the others? 

I've seen Corvette's go from two to three hundred quid, to well over a grand. What's that all about? 

Obviously, condition will reflect value, but all things being equal. 

I quite fancy another Warwick, but I've no idea what the lower value ones are like. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Newfoundfreedom

[nige1968]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-f0qFeIpPEnY01jWkw3enNaMzQ/view

[Newfoundfreedom]

3 minutes ago, nige1968 said:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-f0qFeIpPEnY01jWkw3enNaMzQ/view

Nice one. Thanks Nige. 

That covers the model changes, but still doesn't explain the massive varience in prices. 

[nige1968]

Do you mean second-hand or new?

Second-hand, you pay more (£1,000+) for early models, custom shop and anything neck-through.  Early- to mid-noughties models with chunky necks tend to be less sought-after. They still aren't trendy items second-hand, partly I guess because right now passive Fenders are what 'the kids' are into and partly because the oil finishes can look icky if not properly cared for. Some models are probably more popular than others but it's in the eye of the beholder, really. Chinese and Korean instruments can be found for not much moolah.

New, you pay sky-high dollars for Custom Shop basses, £1,500 upwards for 'German Pro Series' (parts sourced from various luthiers and assembled on the German production line) and anything up to £1,000 for Chinese Rockbasses.

Hope it's helpful and reasonably accurate.

 

 

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

I quite fancy another Warwick

new prices are crazy crazy.... secondhand prices aren't. My top tip for buying basses ... decide what you want (model wise) look around the internet for one... then just give @warwickhunt a bell and see what you can make him part with - he's got a collection of very very good warwicks, and normally early (ie pre 1991) models, and if you ask nice some of them he's not super attatched too. 

[Newfoundfreedom]

13 minutes ago, nige1968 said:

Do you mean second-hand or new?

Second-hand, you pay more (£1,000+) for early models, custom shop and anything neck-through.  Early- to mid-noughties models with chunky necks tend to be less sought-after. They still aren't trendy items second-hand, partly I guess because right now passive Fenders are what 'the kids' are into and partly because the oil finishes can look icky if not properly cared for. Some models are probably more popular than others but it's in the eye of the beholder, really. Chinese and Korean instruments can be found for not much moolah.

New, you pay sky-high dollars for Custom Shop basses, £1,500 upwards for 'German Pro Series' (parts sourced from various luthiers and assembled on the German production line) and anything up to £1,000 for Chinese Rockbasses.

Hope it's helpful and reasonably accurate.

 

 

Yes I was talking about second hand prices. 

Thanks Nige. 

[Chris2112]

Warwick's range is now more confused than ever. They have a number of different ranges and it may not be clear to the uninitiated just what they're looking at. 

GPS Team-built is the German-made range, but not the Custom Shop. They are analogous to the old German-made 'basic' range which included everything from the Corvette Standard right up to the Dolphin Pro II and the Streamer Stage II. There are a range of discontinued Korean models called the 'Pro Series'. The 'Rockbass' range is the cheap tut, but even their prices have absolutely ballooned in recent years. They do a Rockbass Robert Trujillo Streamer that retails at nearly £1500! 

Warwick have always been expensive to buy new, relative to their competition. 

[Guest]

Warwick invested millions in their six axis machinery to carve custom shop basses to very close to the finished product and also to guarantee consistency with work like fretting and the curves where laminated woods are glued (e.g. the body to the through neck and the curved streamer and thumb bodies). The custom shop now offers almost anything imaginable, included discontinued models, longer scale lengths, different string spacing and models with more strings (6-string Streamer Stage II, for example), and you pay for this customisation, but even the standard models are Fodera pricing new.
The used market has never really reflected the retail price, particularly in the U.K. - and many sellers post things up at completely unrealistic prices. I would expect a passive original German corvette to be £400 tops, a Streamer stage 1 to be no more than £800-900 (unless it’s a rarer 6 string or in a high polish finish, or customised) and a thumb NT £900-£1000. The Infinity is a bit less common and was more expensive new, but even then I wouldn’t pay more than £1,200, even for a mint model. Limited edition models or rare models don’t really command much of a price premium - it’s not as if it’s a ‘59 Precision, is it! On the plus side, as they’ve gone firmly out of fashion, bargains are there to be had. I used to own several but I’ve gone right off them over the years - mainly due to the poor ergonomics, baseball bat neck from the mid-90s to mid-00s, headstock-heavy balance in a 5- or 6- and the tone from the MEC electronics is decidedly average. A very old streamer with EMGs (a la Stuart Zender back in the day) is definitely worth checking out as they have a really nice feel and a properly punchy sound. On the plus side almost every Warwick 5/6 I’ve owned has got a fantastic low B - the best and most articulate of any bass I’ve played.

[CamdenRob]

I appreciate this is a thread on pricing rather than the instruments in general but anyway... I had a thumb NT 6 and it sounded absolutely awesome but the horrendous neck dive made it virtually unplayable... even on a strap you actually had to hold the neck up (and the body down with the other arm) or it would just swing down and the body would hit you in the face  😕 ... really did sound incredible though.

[LukeFRC]

13 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

Warwick invested millions in their six axis machinery to carve custom shop basses to very close to the finished product and also to guarantee consistency with work like fretting and the curves where laminated woods are glued (e.g. the body to the through neck and the curved streamer and thumb bodies). The custom shop now offers almost anything imaginable, included discontinued models, longer scale lengths, different string spacing and models with more strings (6-string Streamer Stage II, for example), and you pay for this customisation, but even the standard models are Fodera pricing new.
The used market has never really reflected the retail price, particularly in the U.K. - and many sellers post things up at completely unrealistic prices. I would expect a passive original German corvette to be £400 tops, a Streamer stage 1 to be no more than £800-900 (unless it’s a rarer 6 string or in a high polish finish, or customised) and a thumb NT £900-£1000. The Infinity is a bit less common and was more expensive new, but even then I wouldn’t pay more than £1,200, even for a mint model. Limited edition models or rare models don’t really command much of a price premium - it’s not as if it’s a ‘59 Precision, is it! On the plus side, as they’ve gone firmly out of fashion, bargains are there to be had. I used to own several but I’ve gone right off them over the years - mainly due to the poor ergonomics, baseball bat neck from the mid-90s to mid-00s, headstock-heavy balance in a 5- or 6- and the tone from the MEC electronics is decidedly average. A very old streamer with EMGs (a la Stuart Zender back in the day) is definitely worth checking out as they have a really nice feel and a properly punchy sound. On the plus side almost every Warwick 5/6 I’ve owned has got a fantastic low B - the best and most articulate of any bass I’ve played.

I've had a few so kinda keep an eye on the secondhand prices - I would put the used prices a tiny bit higher that that esp for a early (pre'92) or later (after they got all the CNC stuff and went back to high quality)  - £1200 or so for a SS1, £1400-1800 for Thumb or dolphins or whatever (again the older ones) depending on how many strings they have and age/ condition etc. 

Secondhand, and the older ones you can get an amazing custom quality bass for silly low money. The early ones have thin thin necks too - I used to have a 1985 thumb and the neck was so thin. The downside is sometimes the sound sits in the mix in really odd places. 

[Guest]

Oh I agree with you - definitely a bit more for the 80s models as they’re hand-carved, with lovely Wengé necks and don’t have the MEC electronics. Ditto models produced since they went full-bore with the custom shop - but the issue is that you can get really well-made instruments at well below £1K, so you’d have to really want a Warwick to pay custom luthier prices for what is effectively a machine-made instrument - and that’s before any custom options. My fave was the Streamer Stage 1 5 and 6 - however I can’t see myself spending nearly £6,000 on a new one 

[LukeFRC]

11 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

Oh I agree with you - definitely a bit more for the 80s models as they’re hand-carved, with lovely Wengé necks and don’t have the MEC electronics. Ditto models produced since they went full-bore with the custom shop - but the issue is that you can get really well-made instruments at well below £1K, so you’d have to really want a Warwick to pay custom luthier prices for what is effectively a machine-made instrument - and that’s before any custom options. My fave was the Streamer Stage 1 5 and 6 - however I can’t see myself spending nearly £6,000 on a new one 

The basses from 1984 onwards had MEC made preamps in them. Not sure when the MEC pickups came in - very late 80's. My 91 streamer had them in. Hate active pickups though so it now wears Bartolini

[Chris2112]

I know MEC electronics have often cited as a weak point in Warwick basses but I really don't think they deserve the stick they get. It made sense for Warwick to move to an in-house electronic package for profitability and though I generally prefer Bartolini and EMG pickups, I think Warwick made a pretty good go of developing some decent pickups and preamps for their basses. Certainly, their chosen voicing seems to suit the basses themselves and I don't think anything is lost by keeping an MEC set in place. 

OTOH, I found Stuart Zender's tone very crappy and bland. I've never seen what the fuss was about with that bloke, but the sound of EMG P/J's can be a thing of beauty - Victor Wooten makes them sing. 

[4000]

7 minutes ago, Chris2112 said:

I know MEC electronics have often cited as a weak point in Warwick basses but I really don't think they deserve the stick they get. It made sense for Warwick to move to an in-house electronic package for profitability and though I generally prefer Bartolini and EMG pickups, I think Warwick made a pretty good go of developing some decent pickups and preamps for their basses. Certainly, their chosen voicing seems to suit the basses themselves and I don't think anything is lost by keeping an MEC set in place. 

OTOH, I found Stuart Zender's tone very crappy and bland. I've never seen what the fuss was about with that bloke, but the sound of EMG P/J's can be a thing of beauty - Victor Wooten makes them sing. 

Horses for courses. I absolutely love Zender’s sound and think Wooten’s sound is terrible, one of my least favourite bass sounds. Still, I also hate Barts. I had them in a few Seis until I realised that, for me, they were the weak link.

FWIW Martin Petersen rates MEC electronics. 

My favourite sounding Warwicks were the early Thumbs with EMGs. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by 4000

[Al Krow]

44 minutes ago, 4000 said:

My favourite sounding Warwicks were the early Thumbs with EMGs. 

Not surprised to hear that:"early Thumbs with EMGs" aka Spector basses 😉

[Chris2112]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Not surprised to hear that:"early Thumbs with EMGs" aka Spector basses 😉

You're thinking of the Streamer - all maple, neck thru, NS body shape, high mass single piece bridge, EMG and active preamp - yeah, very much the Spector recipe! I used to have a Streamer Ltd Edition 1990 model, which was all maple neck thru with two Bartolini soapbars. It was very middy, bright and aggressive. Any Spector fan would have loved it. 

[4000]

Have never got on with Spectors. Nothing like the early Thumbs. 

[dmccombe7]

My 89 Thumb NT has EMG's. The pre-amp module failed few yrs ago and the only available option from Warwick was to fit the MEC pre-amp. I can't hear any difference. I had the work completed by luthier Chris McIntyre who came highly recommended. He was 1st class altho he won't deal directly with Warwick after he had a big falling out with them over parts and prices.

Spot on about the necks and playability. One of the nicest basses i've ever played. It would take a lot of coaxing for me to sell mine.  Had it since new.

Dave

[[email protected]]

I've had a Rockbass when they first come out and it was average at best, not up to a squire IMHO. Currently I've a passive '97 Corvette 5 for the occasional recording session where a 5 is needed and it's great. Personally I always preferred the passive basses that they made, the active ones that I tried always sounded a bit wasp in a jar!!!!

[Monkey Steve]

My main bass is a Warwick custom shop 5 string Stage I Streamer.  Fortunately I had a lot of spare cash when I got it...

I've always liked the Warwick's I've played, and over the years I've had a few.  However, there was a period a few years ago when the German made standards seemed to disappear from the shops and the Rockbass took over.  I know from speaking to some stores that Warwick's distribution was an issue for ages.  They then seemed to focus on charging as much as possible for basses that were made in Germany, with the Custom Shop/Masterbuilt range, which weren't much different to what could be bought for a third of the price a few years previously

I know I've overpaid for my bass, but it was exactly what i wanted, having boiled down everything i liked from the others I'd had.  the kicker is that secondhand  it's worth a very small fraction of what I paid for it, so I'm never getting most of that money back should I ever want to move it on (so just as well I love it).  It's definitely worth keeping an eye out for second hand German Warwicks - £1k for a S/H Stage I or II is a bargain

The MEC ($$) pickups are fine, though the active electrics are a bit under powered so maybe I'll tweak those

One thing I would offer is that the neck thru (NT) models have fantastically slim, fast necks compared to the bolt ons