Warwick to become 'Exclusive Licensee' to Sadowsky!

[ianrendall]

45 minutes ago, ezbass said:

Perhaps we might see a slew of new, US boutique builders.

Indeed, a couple of current employees already have their own thing going on. Pablo runs Valle Guitars, Erik runs Truss Guitars and Lukasz runs LPGunia Guitars. 

[warwickhunt]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

Suddenly I don't feel so hopeful about Sadowsky basses going forward!!!!

Sadowsky has 3 price bands at present and Roger will be concentrating on few basses built by a handpicked team... sounds OK.  

TBH BO neck Fender copies can be made in any guitar factory, in any country in the world; iirc Warwick have some state of the art CNC machinery, so this bodes well. 

  

[molan]

9 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

Sadowsky has 3 price bands at present and Roger will be concentrating on few basses built by a handpicked team... sounds OK.  

TBH BO neck Fender copies can be made in any guitar factory, in any country in the world; iirc Warwick have some state of the art CNC machinery, so this bodes well. 

  

There was a world of difference between Warwicks we received from the Pro range that were finished and QC’d in Germany compared to the Sadowsky instruments that arrived from Tokyo. 
 

Warwick felt like they wanted to get them out of the door as quickly as possible and pretty much every one needed adjustments and sorting before they could be sold. 
 

You could lift a Sadowsky Metro out of the box as it came from Tokyo and play it immediately. 
 

Just that extra bit of care going into the finished product rather than just another ‘sale’ going out the door

[ianrendall]

2 minutes ago, molan said:

There was a world of difference between Warwicks we received from the Pro range that were finished and QC’d in Germany compared to the Sadowsky instruments that arrived from Tokyo. 
 

Warwick felt like they wanted to get them out of the door as quickly as possible and pretty much every one needed adjustments and sorting before they could be sold. 
 

You could lift a Sadowsky Metro out of the box as it came from Tokyo and play it immediately. 
 

Just that extra bit of care going into the finished product rather than just another ‘sale’ going out the door

This is what concerns me.

Sadowsky concentrate on making instruments, Warwick concentrate on making sales.

[chris_b]

3 minutes ago, molan said:

You could lift a Sadowsky Metro out of the box as it came from Tokyo and play it immediately. 

Just that extra bit of care going into the finished product rather than just another ‘sale’ going out the door

This. Sadowsky have a legendary reputation for their QC, fit and finish. If in future their basses are going straight to the customer from Germany then do they get Warwick QC or Sadowsky QC?

[warwickhunt]

"Sadowsky concentrate on making instruments, Warwick concentrate on making sales."

Could just as easily be...

Warwick concentrate on making instruments, Sadowsky concentrate on making sales.

Time will tell I suppose.  

[Cuzzie]

1 minute ago, warwickhunt said:

"Sadowsky concentrate on making instruments, Warwick concentrate on making sales."

Could just as easily be...

Warwick concentrate on making instruments, Sadowsky concentrate on making sales.

Time will tell I suppose.  

Unlikely 

[ianrendall]

I guess we’ll need to come up with a colloquialism for this new breed. Sadwick? 😁

[mangotango]

On ‎16‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 13:02, cetera said:

I give it three years.... and then they'll produce the same instrument, change the tuning peg angle and stop paying Sadowsky for the license

 

I ex-Spector situation like that could arise....

[cetera]

18 hours ago, Wolverinebass said:

I can't wait for Hans Peter Wilfer to come out with some crap soon, like "All these designs are mine," "We pioneered the Sadowsky shape and electronics," "I own the patents to all Sadowsky basses." It won't be long before he says that "Warwick invented the wheel in 10,000 B.C." No irony will be present either.

 

..... and then he'll bolster his already burgeoning 'endorsee' list by continuing to give them away for free to every new young bassist in a Nu-metal band while making people think they wanted/bought them 😁

[warwickhunt]

I'm feeling the Warwick positivity people!  😂  

[Silvia Bluejay]

FWIW, I bought several brand new Warwicks (two Pros and three Rockbasses), and they were always perfectly set up, and ready to play. I only play flats, so I got rid of the rounds they came with, and I have slightly idiosyncratic tastes about action and saddle height, so I re-did the setup, but that wasn't because they were unplayable to start with.

I bought them from Thomann, but as far as I know, they don't even open the boxes, let alone set the basses up; they simply sell them on as they come from Warwick.

[thodrik]

35 minutes ago, Silvia Bluejay said:

FWIW, I bought several brand new Warwicks (two Pros and three Rockbasses), and they were always perfectly set up, and ready to play. I only play flats, so I got rid of the rounds they came with, and I have slightly idiosyncratic tastes about action and saddle height, so I re-did the setup, but that wasn't because they were unplayable to start with.

I bought them from Thomann, but as far as I know, they don't even open the boxes, let alone set the basses up; they simply sell them on as they come from Warwick.

I have never bought a Warwick, but have tried a few of the pro series. Always thought that they were well made basses and the fit and finish was on point. In fact, recently I was thinking of getting a team built Thumb 5 (or 6) as a back up/alternative to my Sadowsky. 

With the truss rod wheel and ease of adjustment of the bridge, Sadowsky basses are the easiest to set up instruments I have ever owned. Provided Warwick can get the shape of the neck, fretwork and fit and finish on point, they really should be able to deliver a really well set up bass. If not, then I think that the concerns of the move will be warranted. Otherwise, I am willing to give the partnership a chance. I suspect that Roger Sadowsky has gone to great pains to satisfy himself on how the instruments are going to be made.

My one query/concern is how Warwick would approach dealers. Would dealers have to agree to stock both Sadowsky and Warwick basses or will the product lines essentially be treated as separate entities? I was just thinking of dealers like Guitar Guitar, who have stocked Sadowsky stuff for years, but to my mind have not recently been dealers for German/Pro Series Warwick basses.

Edited December 18, 2019 by thodrik

[M@23]

Must make very good business sense, but seems a shame. A huge part of the charm of Sadowsky was that it was Roger and his crew. The Metros were cool because of the collaboration and story behind them. I really liked my Metro, was a very well made bass. 

Be interesting to see what happens, but it looks like they're going to get watered down a bit. 

[molan]

7 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

"Sadowsky concentrate on making instruments, Warwick concentrate on making sales."

Could just as easily be...

Warwick concentrate on making instruments, Sadowsky concentrate on making sales.

Time will tell I suppose.  

But, based on direct experience that wouldn’t be true. 
 

Sure it could change but there’s little indication to say that Roger is going to have the clout to override the Warwick sales machine that’s all about ‘throughput’. . . 

[Drax]

Fascinating background from @molan on retailing these  

I’d not really joined the dots before on how the proliferation of cheaper lines have dented the Warwick brand - and in part explains the soft second hand values. 

With MetroExpress at £800 it won’t be long before you can get a used bass with Sadowsky on the headstock for under £500. Obviously Roger & co have ran the numbers and are comfortable it all works - maybe Sadowsky is shifting towards the Sire market. 

[molan]

2 hours ago, thodrik said:

My one query/concern is how Warwick would approach dealers. Would dealers have to agree to stock both Sadowsky and Warwick basses or will the product lines essentially be treated as separate entities? I was just thinking of dealers like Guitar Guitar, who have stocked Sadowsky stuff for years, but to my mind have not recently been dealers for German/Pro Series Warwick basses.

I can only base my opinion on having been a dealer for both brands. 
 

Given an option to re-stock I would take Sadowsky without question. I wouldn’t touch another Warwick if they paid me. . .

[machinehead]

3 hours ago, Silvia Bluejay said:

FWIW, I bought several brand new Warwicks (two Pros and three Rockbasses), and they were always perfectly set up, and ready to play. I only play flats, so I got rid of the rounds they came with, and I have slightly idiosyncratic tastes about action and saddle height, so I re-did the setup, but that wasn't because they were unplayable to start with.

I bought them from Thomann, but as far as I know, they don't even open the boxes, let alone set the basses up; they simply sell them on as they come from Warwick.

I have a korean built Streamer LX4 Pro.  It's a superb instrument.

It's the same quality in every way as the German Streamer LX4 I had.  (Except for the use of different woods, but that's a design issue, not a quality one.)

Frank.

[Misdee]

To me, this is a bit of a disaster. Yet another iconic brand compromised by a mixture of ageing ownership and economics, with Spector and Ken Smith making similar arrangements to Sadowsky, and Pedulla gone completely.

What is glaringly obvious is that with this licencing deal Warwick have made a massive play to get into the Fender-derived bass market, an area they were previously excluded from by their own designs. Warwick will now be in pole position to take over the brand entirely when Roger retires. I fear that in the fullness of time they will have no scruples about compromising quality and exploiting the brand name.

[lemmywinks]

18 hours ago, Drax said:

I’d not really joined the dots before on how the proliferation of cheaper lines have dented the Warwick brand - and in part explains the soft second hand values. 

 

The used values have been gradually creeping up over the last few years, a lot of people forget that a German Corvette with active eq sold new for around £600 and before that a Fortress was £900, used prices for the budget German ranges are now circa £400-£600 and I've seen some sell on eBay for close their new price too. Even the lowly Streamer Standard BO goes for more than it did a few years ago.

 

If anything the modern Rockbass lines have added value to the older German ones as getting a new "proper" Warwick is beyond the reach of a lot of players, certainly wasn't the case when I paid £598 for mine! I know this because I've been looking at used ones (got the itch) and people seem to have put a bit more value on them recently, I can remember a German Corvette $$ being well under £700 used, now you pay that for a Rockbass and are looking at closer to a grand for a German one.

 

As for Sadowsky - why all the fuss? They're just bolt on Jazz copies at the end of the day, loads of builders make them. Last time I played one of the modern Rockbass range it was a fantastic instrument, I don't doubt Warwick can build a top class Jazz copy in the same factory, in fact given the investment they have made in mass produced CNC equipment it's hard to imagine any Chinese factory doing any better. If Roger wants to outsource his brand there then they are probably his best bet.

[therealting]

Posted by Roger on Facebook:

“Hi Everyone.....I am on holiday now after spending the last 4 days at the Warwick factory.  The quality of the new instruments are amazing.  I spent time with the amazing Warwick production manger, Marcus Spangler preparing all of the instruments for NAMM, selecting body blanks in the Sadowsky weight range and reviewing every detail.

“Many of you are expressing your opinions and there is a lot of speculation.  I want to invite you to post questions to me beginning on December 28, when I will return home and I will do my best to answer all of them..    I will not have time to review any questions posted prior to December 28.

“Thanks to all of you who have been supportive of me.  As a Japanese sushi chef who is serving an Omakase would say..."Trust Me".”

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2413733079/permalink/10157604627368080/

[Cuzzie]

Not hanging Sadowsky out there as a pantheon of the bass world, I never like this ‘Fender Clone’ copy thing are Stradivari violins called Amati copies/clones? 
Mind you Hans has a history of doing rip offs with his SpectorWick basses......

I think most of all, he is just a bit of a plum which means there is a chance a decent brand could become less so

[lemmywinks]

They're high end Jazz basses, tons of makers do this and they're all ripping Fender off. Doesn't matter how good the basses are, they're still cloning someone else's idea and if they went under you could buy a Celinder or something. In fact Celinder even cloned Sadowsky's headstock so you can get even closer to one!

 

Aside from the ripped off NS designed body shape on one of their basses Warwicks have nothing in common with Spectors, you can't make one sound or feel like the other. 

[Cuzzie]

I suppose that is sensible after losing a law suit and having to pay Spector royalties To change designs and stop that and exploit loop holes when Kramer bought Spector.

Out if Interest are G&Ls considered Fender Clones? They had to change their headstocks....

[lemmywinks]

Kramer could have easily pursued Warwick for royalties, they didn't. Did HPW actually lose a lawsuit? I thought he just agreed to license the design after he was caught making his own version, paying Spector (who also licensed the body shape) and Ned Steinberger (the guy who actually designed it). By the time Spector got the rights back he effectively had no case as the Streamer had changed enough to not be an infringement, the raked back tuners and different headstock design happened way before this btw.

 

G&L are Leo's developed versions of the basses he produced at Fender, he changed the parts which would infringe copyright. They are his basses, why would they (or Musicman) be considered Fender clones when all they share is a similar body shape? The weird thing is when you pick up a Warwick and a Spector then feel completely different, if you were blindfolded and sat down with both of them you would never guess they were very similar shapes. When you plugged them in you would hear a massive difference.

 

Did Spector ever pay Gibson for nicking the T-Bird or Fender for pinching Tele/Jazz shapes btw? Or did they change enough for them to be considered different basses?

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by lemmywinks