Warwick to become 'Exclusive Licensee' to Sadowsky!

[lemmywinks]

Some of Spectors original designs they managed to come up with when Ned Steinberger stopped answering the phone:

 

Can't help but think I've seen some of those designs before, can anybody help me out here?

[Cuzzie]

You are correct about the lawsuit, I say lose as I am sure he would have preferred to pay nothing at all rather than a licensing fee! As Spector was technically Kramer and he only owed Spector a few, then no he need not pay.

So far as the clone thing goes, my personal view is I think it’s overly harsh on most bass makers out there. Someone (Leo Fender) designed and ergonomically useful and aesthetically pleasing shape to an electric bass. If It so happens that other brands can make something just as good if not better in a similar style (mostly because of our conservative nature in trying/buying products) then I feel it’s unfair to try demonise them from the outset as a ‘clone’ which is oft used in a slightly derogatory fashion. Within the ‘same design’ there is huge variation to keep people happy

They may do it in the Violin world with Amati and Stradivari etc, but that was the point being made that the violin as an example has barely changed its design.

Personally I think a Warwick looks like a child’s drawing of a melted candle with a chubby crayon, but that’s cool, they can sound wicked and Norwood fisher one of my fave bassists used/uses one.

The main concern from most, which is justified historically, is HPW taking something and making it worse as well as an unpleasant marketing strategy-some May call it clever business but he is not someone I would get into bed with.

Time will tell

[Musicman20]

It seems a bizarre concept, but I imagine Roger wanted a change to his life and probably benefitted massively financially.

But, a MIC Sadowsky just seems wrong....for that brand. 

 

[lemmywinks]

6 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

You are correct about the lawsuit, I say lose as I am sure he would have preferred to pay nothing at all rather than a licensing fee! As Spector was technically Kramer and he only owed Spector a few, then no he need not pay.

So far as the clone thing goes, my personal view is I think it’s overly harsh on most bass makers out there. Someone (Leo Fender) designed and ergonomically useful and aesthetically pleasing shape to an electric bass. If It so happens that other brands can make something just as good if not better in a similar style (mostly because of our conservative nature in trying/buying products) then I feel it’s unfair to try demonise them from the outset as a ‘clone’ which is oft used in a slightly derogatory fashion. Within the ‘same design’ there is huge variation to keep people happy

They may do it in the Violin world with Amati and Stradivari etc, but that was the point being made that the violin as an example has barely changed its design.

Personally I think a Warwick looks like a child’s drawing of a melted candle with a chubby crayon, but that’s cool, they can sound wicked and Norwood fisher one of my fave bassists used/uses one.

The main concern from most, which is justified historically, is HPW taking something and making it worse as well as an unpleasant marketing strategy-some May call it clever business but he is not someone I would get into bed with.

Time will tell

Sadowsky et al are basically Jazz clones though, they don't just take cues from the body shape they copy it closely. Not saying that's a bad thing as everybody copies everybody else - Fender didn't exactly design that famous headstock themselves either. They have developed the design into something of their own but there's no denying what they are and they still have that core Jazz tone in there.

 

The Streamer/Spector isn't even in my top 5 Warwick shapes (it goes Fortress, Infinity, Dolphin, Corvette, Thumb if you're interested!), it's better than the Vampire, Katana and Buzzard though. Say what you want about Warwicks but they aren't a one trick pony that relies entirely on licensed NS designs, they've forged their own path over the years.

Edited December 20, 2019 by lemmywinks

[Cuzzie]

Can’t disagree with anything you say, I have nowt against a Warwick basses, quite like the sound and is distinctive for sure.

My Bro has a couple and they suit him well.

It purely a personal thing, I can’t separate the man from the product, it’s the same reason why I stopped reading some newspapers because of a principle.

Anyhow - good will to all folk and all that - enough bad chat!

[thodrik]

Interesting launch video. 

Price of the Metro Express is to around 775 Euros. Though it won't feature the Sadowsky bridge, nor from what I gather the full fat Sadowsky preamp. I suppose for that price point it isn't really possible. It looks the Sterling by Musicman equivalent to the Sadowsky line. In terms of fit and finish I am actually really curious to see how this line turns out, perhaps more than the more expensive lines. 

It seems that the Metros will be priced at above 2000 Euros, so quite a bit more than the Warwick Teambuilt basses but pretty much in line with current Metro prices. 

The Masterbuilt series with 'upgraded' Nordstrand pickups is curious. Previously, the benefit of the Metro series was that you were getting the same bridge, pickups and pre amp as the NYC basses. As far as I'm aware the previous standard Sadowsky branded J-bass pickups were generally Seymour Duncan humcancelling pickups. I'm guessing that the 'new' Metros will get these pickups and the Masterbuilt will get the new Nordstrand pickups. 

From my view, it seemed like a good presentation video. Interesting that Roger Sadowsky stated that all the CNC work is done to his specifications, so the basses really shouldn't feel too different in hand compared to the current Metro line. Also, I like the fact that Roger Sadowsky pointed out the flaws with the prototype Metro Express basses in terms of the logo and string retainer. A small indication of his general quality control and wanting things to be 'right'.

I am still cautiously optimistic. 
 

[therealting]

@thodrik Interesting, as for me swapping the Sadowsky pickups in my Metro out for Nordstrands really brought the thing to life. 

[chris_b]

28 minutes ago, therealting said:

@thodrik Interesting, as for me swapping the Sadowsky pickups in my Metro out for Nordstrands really brought the thing to life. 

Which Nordstrands did you install?

[therealting]

27 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Which Nordstrands did you install?

I went with NJ4SEs. I also have NJ4s in my medium scale Fender Jazz. They’re both fantastic pickups. 

[prowla]

On 16/12/2019 at 17:06, MrCrane said:

I think we're already liable to pay VAT for goods from Germany.

 

Plus shipping from Germany seems to be more expensive than from the US & China.

[wateroftyne]

7 hours ago, thodrik said:

Interesting launch video. 

Price of the Metro Express is to around 775 Euros.
 

...which seemed to be a surprise to Roger Sadowsky. Ha ha.

This is a really odd development. Fact is, it's going to devalue the brand, but I guess Roger is planning his exit route.

[Cuzzie]

Roger will get his cut per bass, Warwick will license the Jazz bass as their own invention and shape and then ask Fender to  change their shapes

Edited January 15, 2020 by Cuzzie

[therealting]

@wateroftyne I think it depends how good they are. Most brands have a “budget” arm these days: MTD, PRS, Fender, Elrick, KSD, Dingwall, etc. As far as I know, their high end hand built stuff is still just as sought after and their waiting lists still more than they can keep up with, all the examples above have excellent quality instruments at the affordable end, and as a business decision it obviously makes sense in an industry where many hand builders are surprisingly not-wealthy. 

[wateroftyne]

1 minute ago, therealting said:

@wateroftyne I think it depends how good they are. Most brands have a “budget” arm these days: MTD, PRS, Fender, Elrick, KSD, Dingwall, etc. As far as I know, their high end hand built stuff is still just as sought after and their waiting lists still more than they can keep up with, all the examples above have excellent quality instruments at the affordable end, and as a business decision it obviously makes sense in an industry where many hand builders are surprisingly not-wealthy. 

Are any of those premium brands, that have introduced stuff retailing for less than 800 quid..?

[therealting]

MTD Kingston Heir

PRS SE Kestrel

Fender Player

KSD Proto-J

The Elrick and Dingwall overseas-built ones are more, but still a fraction of the price of the handbuilt ones. 

[thodrik]

27 minutes ago, therealting said:

MTD Kingston Heir

PRS SE Kestrel

Fender Player

KSD Proto-J

The Elrick and Dingwall overseas-built ones are more, but still a fraction of the price of the handbuilt ones. 

I think that the Spector Legend series would cover that price point as well. 

It can certainly be done. However, even as a Sadowsky aficionado, I do think that it is diluting the brand a little. However, Sadowsky were already doing off-shore licensed products for years with the Metro and Metro Express line. If it was Vigier guitars announcing a licensing deal with Warwick then I would be more shocked.

[therealting]

@thodrik Well if the quality drops, it means that many of us now own “pre-Warwick” Metros 😉

A Sadowsky P/J at under €800 is a bargain though. Buying the preamp alone (albeit with the VTC) is about €250.

[thodrik]

1 minute ago, therealting said:

@thodrik Well if the quality drops, it means that many of us now own “pre-Warwick” Metros 😉

A Sadowsky P/J at under €800 is a bargain though. Buying the preamp alone (albeit with the VTC) is about €250.

Sadowsky or not, a nice active Jazz type with good fit and finish for sub-£800 is a good deal. There is a lot of competition at the point though. Will consumers just go with the brand they know and prefer a Mexican Fender Player bass rather than a Chinese Warwickdowsky?

It will really depend on the fit and finish and attention to detail, which is really what Roger Sadowsky built his reputation on with the NYC and prior Metro series. 

[Cuzzie]

Chiwardowsky is the new line name

[Cuzzie]

Or even Chi-sad-ick.......but don’t say it too quickly

Edited January 15, 2020 by Cuzzie

[therealting]

2 hours ago, thodrik said:

Will consumers just go with the brand they know and prefer a Mexican Fender Player bass rather than a Chinese Warwickdowsky?

To this point they have have to, since there hasn’t been one available. Obviously many people want the Fender name on the headstock, which is understandable. Having said that, Sires and the like have made an impact, and if these are lighter than those then I know which I’d rather have.
 

I can’t wait to pick a secondhand one up for £400 or so. 😂

[chris_b]

These could easily be fantastic basses but to my mind they are Warwick's. I know that's exactly what Roger Sadowsky is trying to avoid with his video, but there you go.

[lemmywinks]

5 hours ago, therealting said:

I can’t wait to pick a secondhand one up for £400 or so. 😂

Same!

[prowla]

So, are the cheap ones going to be Sadwicks?

[wateroftyne]

Here's a MetroExpress headstock.

I kid you not.

(Pic pinched from NAMM thread on TB)

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by wateroftyne