Warwick to become 'Exclusive Licensee' to Sadowsky!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, drTStingray said:

I just wonder how long you would wait and how much you'd actually pay for a new NYC build ordered now, given the worldwide craziness (shipping, Covid etc etc). 

Warwick Custom Shop does make nice stuff but I'm not entirely sure what parts for these Sadowski by Warwick Custom Shop basses are actually made there - is it the hand assembly and fittings and finish which differ or are the basic parts from NYC stock? 

Does anyone else remember when the Metros first came out - I think they were £1500 - about the price of a concurrent Stingray - probably mid/late 2000s? I was very tempted but didn't take the plunge - I've played one or two and they're very nice.

Yeah I wonder - however the cynic in me does wonder if Roger is gradually exiting from the business and they will eventually just be made by Warwick or from the Far East? 

I presume the initial quality issues with the Metrolines has now been resolved? 

I would imagine the the circuit, pickups and most of the hardware (most of which is Hipshot rebadged) come direct from Sadowsky. Reading and watching interviews with Roger I’m pretty sure the woods are all sourced in Germany as Warwick alreadY has access to some of the most amazing woods on the planet. 
I bought one of those first Metros - a ‘59 burst MV5. It was superb, light in weight, perfect fretwork and finish, flexible preamp and tight B string with a properly tight super jazz tone. I’ve recently bought an RV5 MetroExpress (again Japanese) and it’s every bit as good. 
I agree with you 100% on Roger winding down operations. They’re dropping various bits of the business - understandable as Roger has been in business a very long time, so like Pedulla he’s probably looking forward to a well-earned retirement.

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by FDC484950

[ezbass]

At least Pedulla drew a line in the sand and didn’t give away the brand. I really hope Yoshi brings out his own branded basses that run rings around Warwick.

[drTStingray]

2 hours ago, AndyTravis said:

@drTStingray his responses to the complaints on Facebook are becoming a bit irksome and irate.

A real shame. My HPJ Japanese Metroline is flawless 

I think your second paragraph is the key here.

Presuming they have sorted out the QC of the new range, I see no reason why the brand is devalued - they are great instruments, and make a specific sound which I personally like. 

Notwithstanding people's personal views of Hans, Roger and any other name you could think of (Sterling, John, etc etc) spring to mind, the brands Warwick and Sadowski remain at the upper echelon of quality instruments and always will be I would guess. 

One sometimes wonders if FMIC have got this right - faceless Corporation with no names to hurl insults at or take up QC issues - I've no idea how good or bad they are - I've never personally had any need to complain and found their products perfectly good but do remember one of our fellow Basschatters having a truss rod on a newish bass snap for no apparent reason and it took them (FMIC) nigh on twelve months to sort it out - but of course no individuals to bombard on Facebook and the like..... 

I can forsee some sort of Sadowski in my life at some point regardless 👍😀

I like Roger - as well as having developed an iconic EQ and high quality renditions of classic designs, another reason is, in the blurb which came new with my 1993 Stingray 3 band fretless is a pamphlet and one of the glowing recommendations/ reviews for Musicman basses is by none other than Roger Sadowski!! 

Edited February 13, 2021 by drTStingray

[molan]

I think Roger is only too aware of the issues coming from the Warwick made instruments and is working hard to eradicate them.

From everything I know about him, he will take this very personally and be trying his utmost to make sure that all instruments bearing his name are worthy of it.

Of course, some of this will be teething issues of new production but you didn’t really have to be much of an expert to predict that Warwick wouldn’t meet Roger/Yoshi’s exacting standards. 

The thing that gets me the most is the simple problem of weight - Sadowsky instruments are almost legendary in being light in weight whilst retaining a full and deep inherent bass tone.

Someone at Warwick QC decided to ignore this core element of the Sadowsky brand and allowed instruments to be made with heavy lumps of wood. They then let them out of the factory without owning up to people that they were bloated and overweight.

This simply never happened with Yoshi’s Metro basses. Some of the limited runs were heavier than others - like the 70’s ash bodied Miller-style natural wood ones. However, dealers were told in advance that these were going to be made using heavier, denser, ash in order to firstly nail that classic late 70’s tone and also to deliver really nice looking pieces of natural ash.

Warwick simply didn’t seem to care about this and just flogged overweight basses to dealers without a care. . .

Personally I’m looking forward to owning one when all the Warwick-related issues are sorted

 

[chris_b]

2 hours ago, molan said:

I think Roger is only too aware of the issues coming from the Warwick made instruments and is working hard to eradicate them.

Personally I’m looking forward to owning one when all the Warwick-related issues are sorted

I think Roger Sadowsky underestimated what was required to make a licencing deal perform to his very high standards. I would hope he's spitting fire at Warwick right now.

My next Sadowsky, if that even happens, will be another Yoshi Metro.

[Cuzzie]

5 hours ago, molan said:

I think Roger is only too aware of the issues coming from the Warwick made instruments and is working hard to eradicate them.

From everything I know about him, he will take this very personally and be trying his utmost to make sure that all instruments bearing his name are worthy of it.

Of course, some of this will be teething issues of new production but you didn’t really have to be much of an expert to predict that Warwick wouldn’t meet Roger/Yoshi’s exacting standards. 

The thing that gets me the most is the simple problem of weight - Sadowsky instruments are almost legendary in being light in weight whilst retaining a full and deep inherent bass tone.

Someone at Warwick QC decided to ignore this core element of the Sadowsky brand and allowed instruments to be made with heavy lumps of wood. They then let them out of the factory without owning up to people that they were bloated and overweight.

This simply never happened with Yoshi’s Metro basses. Some of the limited runs were heavier than others - like the 70’s ash bodied Miller-style natural wood ones. However, dealers were told in advance that these were going to be made using heavier, denser, ash in order to firstly nail that classic late 70’s tone and also to deliver really nice looking pieces of natural ash.

Warwick simply didn’t seem to care about this and just flogged overweight basses to dealers without a care. . .

Personally I’m looking forward to owning one when all the Warwick-related issues are sorted

 

I think you are asking an HPW leopard to change its spots.......

[molan]

7 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

I think you are asking an HPW leopard to change its spots.......

If anyone can do it then Roger is the man 😉

[Cuzzie]

1 minute ago, molan said:

If anyone can do it then Roger is the man 😉

Aye - let’s hope so for sure 🤘🏾

[AndyTravis]

@molan you’re obviously in the know from being in the trade when Metroline Japan was a thing.

happy to take as a PM, but does Yoshi’s facility produce basses under. Their own brand?

I know I was shocked when I heard who Farida made for when I worked as part of their distributor.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

On 15/02/2021 at 23:36, AndyTravis said:

I know I was shocked when I heard who Farida made for when I worked as part of their distributor.

 

If you can, please do tell. I’ve been pleasantly surprised with the few Farida basses I’ve played.

[AndyTravis]

17 minutes ago, Gareth Hughes said:

If you can, please do tell. I’ve been pleasantly surprised with the few Farida basses I’ve played.

It’s no odds to me as I think Farida have now been sold as an entire organisation last I’d heard.

Squier Classic Vibe - the mega ones

Fender Modern Player - them ones 😂

Some of the later peavey grind basses

Warwick rockbass for a while

They we’re meeting Michael Tobias at Musikmesse 2012 - about an acoustic bass. Don’t think this happened in any production.

they made the Parker acoustics- which were short lived. The bass was a beauty.

Recording King acoustics, some Ibanez acoustics (we actually ended up with 20 Farida classicals with Ibanez branded pre amps)

Tanglewood.

There were loads.

will add as I remember 

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by AndyTravis

[sshorepunk]

That’s a cool acoustic! 

[AndyTravis]

3 minutes ago, sshorepunk said:

That’s a cool acoustic! 

Don’t think many made it over here. Looks like a beauty 

[Kev]

It's an odd one.  Warwick Masterbuilt instruments are truly outstanding, I have one from 2017 and it is a work of art and plays magnificently.  They're expensive though, you're paying for that quality.

But charging more than an NYC one??  I mean yeah, its odd (if that's true, same spec etc?).  But there's no way Warwick are doing that without Roger agreeing, so I guess if they don't sell, they don't sell?

[JD1]

All of this seems to have passed me by! So couple of questions (and apologies if they’re hidden earlier). Did something go wrong with the Japan arrangement? The Metro’s seemed to be high quality and popular in equal measure? Also what is the difference between Japanese MetroLines and Japanese MetroExpresses?

Edited February 27, 2021 by JD1

[Guest]

Not sure about the Japan arrangement. Maybe Roger wanted to go in a different direction. I’ve had a couple of the original Japanese Metro basses and they were excellent. I recently briefly owned a MetroExpress and although in the surface the quality should be the same (the only difference is that there are a few set finishes with no options), It arrived with a non-working VTC pot, very light in weight, but I think mostly a light alder body as the balance was terrible (and it comes with rebadged hipshot ultralites), but the tone was every bit as good as I remember and definitely on a par with the NYC models. Fit and finish was otherwise perfect and it played beautifully out of the box. Case was identical to the Metro series too. There are one or two left for sale in the UK and IMHO a bit of a bargain at well below £2K new!
The German Sadowsky basses do not appeal to me at all. It made sense for Sadowsky to use a reputable Japanese manufacturer (whose head spent a year in the Sadowsky workshop learning the craft). It’s not that Warwick cannot manufacture a good bass, but if I want a Warwick I’d buy one. With a Sadowsky I expect it to be either the top end NYC or manufactured at a more affordable price point in Japan. £7K Warwick Sadowskys, even a limited run, are utterly pointless IMHO. And Warwick aren’t exactly known for making lightweight or super jazz basses, are they?

[Cuzzie]

4 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

Not sure about the Japan arrangement. Maybe Roger wanted to go in a different direction. I’ve had a couple of the original Japanese Metro basses and they were excellent. I recently briefly owned a MetroExpress and although in the surface the quality should be the same (the only difference is that there are a few set finishes with no options), It arrived with a non-working VTC pot, very light in weight, but I think mostly a light alder body as the balance was terrible (and it comes with rebadged hipshot ultralites), but the tone was every bit as good as I remember and definitely on a par with the NYC models. Fit and finish was otherwise perfect and it played beautifully out of the box. Case was identical to the Metro series too. There are one or two left for sale in the UK and IMHO a bit of a bargain at well below £2K new!
The German Sadowsky basses do not appeal to me at all. It made sense for Sadowsky to use a reputable Japanese manufacturer (whose head spent a year in the Sadowsky workshop learning the craft). It’s not that Warwick cannot manufacture a good bass, but if I want a Warwick I’d buy one. With a Sadowsky I expect it to be either the top end NYC or manufactured at a more affordable price point in Japan. £7K Warwick Sadowskys, even a limited run, are utterly pointless IMHO. And Warwick aren’t exactly known for making lightweight or super jazz basses, are they?

HPW invented the bass, the wheel and the telephone - jazzes will be a walk in the park for him........

[LukeFRC]

38 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

HPW invented the bass, the wheel and the telephone - jazzes will be a walk in the park for him........

I think that was disputed and for a while he had to have a “licenced by Alexander Graham Bell” on the label 

[ezbass]

The cynic in me thinks the reason Roger moved from Yoshi in Japan to, technically, a bass competitor is $$$$$$

[Doctor J]

Have basses no-one here appears to have actually played yet ever been so unpopular?

I don't understand the ire towards this project. Sadowsky knows his stuff. Warwick know their stuff. Despite the shaky embryonic stage we appear to have passed, I can't understand why anyone would think these are going to be anything less than superb.

[LukeFRC]

25 minutes ago, ezbass said:

The cynic in me thinks the reason Roger moved from Yoshi in Japan to, technically, a bass competitor is $$$$$$

Warwick are also a distributor.... you get to a certain age and get offered what essentially is your retirement and rather than have a company in japan build your basses under licence For you to distribute and sell (I would love to know what else that factory make, Ive found a range of guitars and have my suspicions) you licence your name and a manufacturer/distributor builds your stuff at three price points and you take a cut on everyone? I don’t think it’s cynic, I think it’s a guy nearing retirement and wanting to enjoy the next twenty years making arch top guitars if he feels the desire too

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Doctor J said:

Have basses no-one here appears to have actually played yet ever been so unpopular?

I don't understand the ire towards this project. Sadowsky knows his stuff. Warwick know their stuff. Despite the shaky embryonic stage we appear to have passed, I can't understand why anyone would think these are going to be anything less than superb.

It’s about dilution of the brand. It doesn’t really matter what the quality may or may not be when the name on the headstock is meaningless. At least other manufacturers that have cheaper ranges elsewhere generally handle the sourcing, quality control, distribution and warranty. A Sadowsky bass used to mean something. A Sadowsky sold by Warwick is, to me, meaningless.

[lemmywinks]

1 hour ago, Doctor J said:

Have basses no-one here appears to have actually played yet ever been so unpopular?

I don't understand the ire towards this project. Sadowsky knows his stuff. Warwick know their stuff. Despite the shaky embryonic stage we appear to have passed, I can't understand why anyone would think these are going to be anything less than superb.

A lot of them are just people who have a rather comical dislike of Warwick and the people behind the brand, probably a big crossover from Spector fans as well or at least the ones that still haven't figured out the NS1 wasn't a Stuart Spector design. It's that weird trait some people have where they align themselves with a particular brand on a personal level despite having no connection to it other than making a purchase.

Edited February 27, 2021 by lemmywinks

[Kev]

1 hour ago, Doctor J said:

Have basses no-one here appears to have actually played yet ever been so unpopular?

I don't understand the ire towards this project. Sadowsky knows his stuff. Warwick know their stuff. Despite the shaky embryonic stage we appear to have passed, I can't understand why anyone would think these are going to be anything less than superb.

I agree. It is such a bizarre thread.  Commented earlier about my top end 2017 Warwick and say again that it is exceptional, at least equal with anything else I have used in finish quality, it's stunning.

But yeah, Warwick stopped paying for a License to use the NS design Spector used for their basses when Spector stopped invoicing them, so they must be rubbish....  Silly Roger, someone better let him know.

[Kev]

4 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

A lot of them are just people who have a rather comical dislike of Warwick and the people behind the brand, probably a big crossover from Spector fans as well or at least the ones that still haven't figured out the NS1 wasn't a Stuart Spector design. It's that weird trait some people have where they align themselves with a particular brand on a personal level despite having no connection to it other than making a purchase.

The irony of Sadowsky using primarily a Leo Fender design seems lost a little too...