Warwick to become 'Exclusive Licensee' to Sadowsky!

[spike]

18 minutes ago, ianrendall said:

It does seem a little out of character for someone like Roger to hand over production to a high profile company - a competitor even - like Warwick.

Either something went very very wrong in Tokyo such as QC issues or simply not able to match demand quick enough for whatever reason.

Or Sadowsky as a whole are in financial trouble and need the backing of a larger company with deeper pockets, and part of the rescue package was a licensing deal.

Or it might just be that Rog wants an easier way to get basses into Europe and Warwick was the answer. 
 

A few months ago Sadowsky were teasing images of what appeared to be a Sadowsky-built Marcus Miller sig to tie in with the 40th anniversary. Then all of a sudden it was delayed. I wonder if this new agreement has anything to do with it. 

Or Roger wants to take life easier and doing a manufacturing and distribution deal with Warwick means less work for him and a nice pension too.

[Mike2tone]

2 hours ago, thodrik said:

Okay. Sounds like an equivalent or something similar to the Satin line. Though if it is like Custom Shop Warwick prices then the price could be even higher than current Satin/NYC prices.

Though if the Metro prices are similar to the team built prices for the Thumb, Streamer etc, then that is much lower than current Metro prices

Honestly, I am intrigued to see how it works out.

Yes, I assume the Metroline will be built in Germany/Czech Republic like the GPS Warwick and the high end will be made fully in Germany, with prices near the NYC range.

 

I hope you right in terms of prices but will this mean that the Express line will be sub £1,000 like the Rockbass gear, as I guess they will be made in the same factory?

First basses should be shipping in May so I guess we will know more after NAMM.

[Mike2tone]

1 minute ago, spike said:

Or Roger wants to take life easier and doing a manufacturing and distribution deal with Warwick means less work for him and a nice pension too.

A bit like Stuart Spector selling over to Korg but with the difference that Roger will continue to own and oversee the US made line, I guess

[ianrendall]

5 minutes ago, spike said:

Or Roger wants to take life easier and doing a manufacturing and distribution deal with Warwick means less work for him and a nice pension too.

That too, but I though that Tokyo was doing the manufacturing and distribution of Metro instruments on behalf of Roger, unless I’ve missed something?

[spike]

That's what it looks like to me

Replying to Mike2tone's post

Edited December 16, 2019 by spike

[Silvia Bluejay]

@BlueMoon and @thodrik, the two threads have been merged as per your request.

[molan]

2 hours ago, ianrendall said:

Either something went very very wrong in Tokyo such as QC issues or simply not able to match demand quick enough for whatever reason.

More likely that simple cost of production in Japan is one of the highest in the world. 

Certainly way more than the location that Warwick use for their team-built instruments. 
 

My guess would be that cost of production will fall through the floor and prices will rise to cover licensing and distribution arrangements. 

[molan]

1 hour ago, ianrendall said:

That too, but I though that Tokyo was doing the manufacturing and distribution of Metro instruments on behalf of Roger, unless I’ve missed something?

We Certainly bought all Metros via a contact in LA (that appeared to be a sub-contracted third party) and had them shipped direct to UK from Tokyo. 

[ped]

Sign of the times - many of these master builders like Roger Sadowsky, Ken Smith and Michael Pedulla are thinking about the future. We should count ourselves lucky when there’s a sustainable plan. Warwick have some of the most advanced manufacturing in the world and I’m sure they can screw a neck on just as well as anyone else.

[thodrik]

1 hour ago, ped said:

Sign of the times - many of these master builders like Roger Sadowsky, Ken Smith and Michael Pedulla are thinking about the future. We should count ourselves lucky when there’s a sustainable plan. Warwick have some of the most advanced manufacturing in the world and I’m sure they can screw a neck on just as well as anyone else.

I think that this is similar to how I view it. Roger Sadowsky cannot keep going forever as an individual. A lot of the boutique luthiers will be looking at retirement and succession plans, same as any other business. 

1 hour ago, molan said:

More likely that simple cost of production in Japan is one of the highest in the world. 

Certainly way more than the location that Warwick use for their team-built instruments. 
 

My guess would be that cost of production will fall through the floor and prices will rise to cover licensing and distribution arrangements. 

I would hope that the prices do not rise too much from the current Metro line. The Metro basses are expensive as they are. It is about £2500 for a Metro MV4 or RV4, which I consider is over the odds (I paid £1600 for mine in 2009).  

I think that that the goal for the Warwick Metro would be to sell them at around £2000, which is currently still about £500 north of a 'team built' Warwick Thumb 4. I would like to believe that Roger Sadowsky would not have moved  production if it meant that the cost for the end consumer was going to be more expensive. We will no doubt see in due course. 

Edited December 16, 2019 by thodrik

[ianrendall]

Well, the word over on the other site is this, posted by an employee, probably Lisa

We're just moving the Metro and MetroExpress lines there for better worldwide distribution. It's no secret that we've been having issues getting the MetroExpress basses into the hands of players. This should hopefully eliminate the back orders and delays on that line.

And

We are moving the Metro/MetroExpress from Yoshi/Japan to Warwick/Germany for better worldwide distribution.

Another reply from the same employee says that shifting of Satin basses to Warwick is TBD.

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by ianrendall

[Musicman20]

I just hope the prices go down and the quality stays as is. Strange agreement; never imagined this would happen. 

[chris_b]

Sadowsky had been trying to get the new factory made Metro Express up and running as an in-house project and seem to have met with a few problems.

I guess handing it all over to a company experienced in production line manufacturing and world wide distribution and management will resolve all those issues.

Edited December 17, 2019 by chris_b

[Wolverinebass]

I can't wait for Hans Peter Wilfer to come out with some crap soon, like "All these designs are mine," "We pioneered the Sadowsky shape and electronics," "I own the patents to all Sadowsky basses." It won't be long before he says that "Warwick invented the wheel in 10,000 B.C." No irony will be present either.

[thodrik]

If you can speak German (or operate Google Translate) 

https://www.bonedo.de/artikel/einzelansicht/sensationsmeldung-warwick-baut-sadowsky-instrumente.html

Basically:

Metro Express (production process equivalent to existing Rockbass Warwicks): 799-999 Euros 

Metroline (equivalent to German 'team built' Warwicks: 2000-3000 Euro 

Sadowsky Masterbuilt (equivalent to NYC bass, but made by Warwick Custom Shop I presume: 3000-4500 Euros

Not going to even guess what the £ equivalent will ultimately be. However from a strict Euro comparison from Thomann: 

- Metro Express; massive savings, almost half the price (half the quality?)
- Metroline: pretty much the same, (though hopefully with more options in terms of finishes?)
- Masterbuilt: comparable to 'Satin range' but with far more options and much cheaper than most NYC basses apart from the more 'stock' plain versions. 

There are a few pics on the site of the Masterbuilt line. In terms of 'bling' they are certainly comparable to some of the NYC lines, more than even a lot of the Satin series I see. 

Given the look of the basses, it seems that this partnership has been in the works for a while. I am cautiously optimistic and I say that as an owner of an older Metro and NYC. 

[Cuzzie]

21 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

I can't wait for Hans Peter Wilfer to come out with some crap soon, like "All these designs are mine," "We pioneered the Sadowsky shape and electronics," "I own the patents to all Sadowsky basses." It won't be long before he says that "Warwick invented the wheel in 10,000 B.C." No irony will be present either.

If you dance with the devil.....

[Drax]

Keen pricing on the Tesco Metro Express. 
Not much distance between Masterbuilt and NYC.. 

[NJE]

I really hope someone at Sadowsky reads this thread and realised what a stupid name Metro Express is for the UK market. I don’t think I could own one simply because of the Tesco association 😂

[warwickhunt]

Latest that I could find.  Roger will also move to a smaller premises in 2020 and produce 5 - 10 instruments a month with a small team.

Sadowsky instruments made in Warwick will be available in three different price ranges:

MetroExpress Line, manufactured at the Warwick factory in China. The prices will range between 799,- and 899,- Euro.
MetroLine with 100% production in Germany, comparable to the quality of the Warwick Teambuilt series (here, for example, very high-quality UV varnishes are used). The prices will be between 2.090,- and 2.890,- Euro.
Sadowsky Masterbuilt: This series, also manufactured 100% in Germany, forms the upper end of the range and is qualitatively comparable with Sadowsky's previous US basses. The instruments are equipped with Tone Chambers, for example; custom-made instruments will also be available here. The prices are (without Custom Shop Options) between 3.100,- and 4.500,-.

[molan]

Having actively worked with both Warwick and Sadowsky I'd say there's a world of difference between the two of them in terms of sales tactics, genuine interest in 'musical instruments' and everyday quality.

The latter is really the most important from an end customer basis. Instruments out of the German factory (and I use that descriptor advisedly) simply weren't as good as those coming from Tokyo in terms of final build quality, fit and finish. It always amazed me that you could take a Sadowsky Metro out of the box and it would be pretty much in tune and ready to go. Every bass from the German (oops, it's that word again) Warwick Pro range needed setting up.

Sadowsky were also bang on delivery times and you could actually pick what you wanted to buy - Warwick more or less told you what you could have and then, seemingly, delivered them when they felt like it.

The thought of poorly finished Chinese Sadowsky instruments fills me with dread. Whilst it wasn't true for all Chinese Warwicks, I have seen some absolute dogs get through their quality control system. Somewhat ironically, Spectors out of China were even worse. Killed resale values of used Warwicks across the board with even older genuine German models plummeting in value. You'd think that cheapo poor 'copies' would make the original stuff more desirable and maybe push prices up but we saw a long term decline in values of all Warwicks. Only possible exceptions were a few very old Streamers & Thumbs but even they were a fraction of the price of a new German masterbuilt instrument.

[ianrendall]

1 hour ago, warwickhunt said:

Latest that I could find.  Roger will also move to a smaller premises in 2020 and produce 5 - 10 instruments a month with a small team.

That doesn’t sound like a company that has its house in order.

[thodrik]

55 minutes ago, ianrendall said:

That doesn’t sound like a company that has its house in order.

To me it sounds like a 70 year old man who wants to slow down and just get back to building instruments rather than continue to manage an ever growing business. Kinda like Stuart Spector selling on to Korg. These guys have put a lot of time in and as far as I’m concerned they are entitled to choose their own succession/retirement plan.

The demand for the Metro Express (and to a lesser extent the Metro and NYC models) far outstripped the actual supply of instruments. Rather than having to manage every aspect of the business, this deal potentially allows the supply of basses to grow but also allows Roger Sadowsky to keep building instruments without the extra pressure of managing foreign production and distribution.

It does sound though that ‘something’ happened with Japanese production that Roger Sadowsky didn’t like that resulted in him stopping Japanese production altogether. If Warwick deliver duds though then I suspect Roger Sadowsky will look for a different licensee.

[ianrendall]

47 minutes ago, thodrik said:

To me it sounds like a 70 year old man who wants to slow down and just get back to building instruments rather than continue to manage an ever growing business. Kinda like Stuart Spector selling on to Korg. These guys have put a lot of time in and as far as I’m concerned they are entitled to choose their own succession/retirement plan.

Perhaps I jumped the gun a little. None of us know what went on behind closed doors to lead to this decision, but I don’t think Roger would have made his choice to use Warwick without careful thought. 
I do feel for the staff in NYC that may be let go though. Having Sadowsky on their CVs and learning from one of the best in the business will stand them in good stead though. 

[chris_b]

4 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

Latest that I could find.  Roger will also move to a smaller premises in 2020 and produce 5 - 10 instruments a month with a small team.

Sadowsky instruments made in Warwick will be available in three different price ranges:

Suddenly I don't feel so hopeful about Sadowsky basses going forward!!!!

[ezbass]

19 minutes ago, ianrendall said:

Having Sadowsky on their CVs and learning from one of the best in the business will stand them in good stead though. 

Perhaps we might see a slew of new, US boutique builders.