The IEM (in ear monitors) Bible thread

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, Muppet said:

A festival stage manager has asked me what frequency I'd like for my unit. Its a channel 38 Sennheiser G4. He's asking because he's got a number of mics on that channel. I've gone back to him asking him to tell me what to use, does that make the most sense? 

If he's co-ordinating the wireless, he should be allocating the frequency. You can't randomly choose a frequency and build the other frequencies around it.... that's a sure fire way not to get intermod free frequencies!

 

Bloomin' numpties passing for sound professionals.

[Al Krow]

Apologies if this has already been covered, but...

 

Our two vocalists, but not the rest of the band, in my covers band are both looking to start using IEMs. Currently we have an Allen & Heath desk with one aux out and we can potentially make use of the headphone out from the desk also. We're not looking to get a new desk at this stage.

 

Is there a decent quality and reasonable value for money option you would recommend that they get? 

[Chienmortbb]

On 05/08/2022 at 19:12, Muppet said:

A festival stage manager has asked me what frequency I'd like for my unit. Its a channel 38 Sennheiser G4. He's asking because he's got a number of mics on that channel. I've gone back to him asking him to tell me what to use, does that make the most sense? 

Scroll down on this link to Channel Allocation. Ask the  Stage Manager whether he is using the Ofcom Ch38 Channel plan then you 're both talking the same language,

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/manage-your-licence/radiocommunication-licences/pmse/pmse-technical-info/mics-monitors/shared

 

 

[Simon C]

On 07/08/2022 at 13:45, Al Krow said:

Apologies if this has already been covered, but...

 

Our two vocalists, but not the rest of the band, in my covers band are both looking to start using IEMs. Currently we have an Allen & Heath desk with one aux out and we can potentially make use of the headphone out from the desk also. We're not looking to get a new desk at this stage.

 

Is there a decent quality and reasonable value for money option you would recommend that they get? 

Do you mean decent quality IEMs, or something between the desk and the IEMs, or something else?  

 

I use KZ ZS10 PRO for the IEMs.  I like them.  About £45 on Amazon and you get some ear bling without having to have your ears pierced.  Others I know have had good experiences with CCA (CCA-C12 may be the model number); they are similarly priced.  They will need an extension cable though.  The supplied on is only around 1m (+/-) long - if they just run off that they won't even be able to bend down to pick up a drink of water.

 

Church provide an Allen and Heath ME1 personal mixer for those of us using IEMs.  It works really well in that you can not only adjust levels for each input (vocal or instrument) but can also pan left and right.  The panning functionality helps with separation and clarity - I suspect this means I can run at a lower volume whilst still hearing everything.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Simon C

[EBS_freak]

Not enough people appreciate the MASSIVE difference that stereo IEMs provide.

[Simon C]

18 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Not enough people appreciate the MASSIVE difference that stereo IEMs provide.

Do you mean because of the ability to pan left and right?

[Woodinblack]

19 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Not enough people appreciate the MASSIVE difference that stereo IEMs provide.

 

This person appreciates the MASSIVE cost difference that stereo IEMs provide!

[DaytonaRik]

On 11/08/2022 at 16:28, EBS_freak said:

Not enough people appreciate the MASSIVE difference that stereo IEMs provide.

 

Once you've heard a stereo IEM feed you will NEVER, and I mean NEVER want to go back to a mono feed.  Instead of struggling to hear things that are sonically similarly (e.g. multiple guitars) but stacked on top of one another, everything just becomes so clear in its own 'on stage' paned position in a stereo mix.  If you thought IEMs were an eye opener, stereo IEMs are from another dimension!

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by DaytonaRik

[Chienmortbb]

50 minutes ago, DaytonaRik said:

 

Once you've heard a stereo IEM feed you will NEVER, and I mean NEVER want to go back to a mono feed.  Instead of struggling to hear things that are sonically similarly (e.g. multiple guitars) but stacked on top of one another, everything just becomes so clear in its own 'on stage' paned position in a stereo mix.  If you thought IEMs were an eye opener, stereo IEMs are from another dimension!

 

However a stereo FOH mix rarely works well in my opinion.

[EBS_freak]

3 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

However a stereo FOH mix rarely works well in my opinion.

Never stereo on FoH. You could be shortchanging your audience if they are in the wrong place.

[DaytonaRik]

21 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

However a stereo FOH mix rarely works well in my opinion.

 

The X32 family of desks have a dedicated pan per channel when sent to stereo aux busses (IIRC the right channel send level of the pair is replaced by a pan control)  Always mono FoH but stereo IEMs - lovely!

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by DaytonaRik

[jimmyb625]

1 hour ago, DaytonaRik said:

 

Once you've heard a stereo IEM feed you will NEVER, and I mean NEVER want to go back to a mono feed.  Instead of struggling to hear things that are sonically similarly (e.g. multiple guitars) but stacked on top of one another, everything just becomes so clear in its own 'on stage' paned position in a stereo mix.  If you thought IEMs were an eye opener, stereo IEMs are from another dimension!

 

One word of caution though, don't get too reliant on a stereo mix.

It's great if you're taking your own desk, but at all of the festivals or gigs we've done (without our own desk) they haven't been able to provide stereo feeds.

[DaytonaRik]

44 minutes ago, jimmyb625 said:

One word of caution though, don't get too reliant on a stereo mix.

It's great if you're taking your own desk, but at all of the festivals or gigs we've done (without our own desk) they haven't been able to provide stereo feeds.

 

We're not in that league!  The biggest thing we've played is a bike rally and the on-hire sound engineers were great.  In the event we get to playing festivals then I'd add a couple of splitters to my rack and run our own IEMs, leaving wedges to the sound guys

 

We play pubs but use IEMs and wedges to keep the backline levels to an absolutely minimum...and even then it's a struggle to a get one guitarist to turn that down as after serving on Tornado's on the flight line (avionics engineer) his hearing (particularly table) is shot.  I've tried to get him to use IEMs but to no avail.  Our vocalist described it as 'having aliens in her head' - eeerrrrrr....yeah...okay!  The dummer meanwhile loves being able to hear everything for a change, and the other guitarist is looking at trying my spare setup at some point.

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by DaytonaRik

[EBS_freak]

Did a festival at weekend. Rider in advance stated we wanted to have a splitter to be made available. It was.

I guess it all depends upon the festival and the calibre of the sound hire in place. Appreciate that not all festivals will cater for this... but communication is key.

[EBS_freak]

On 12/08/2022 at 11:30, Woodinblack said:

 

This person appreciates the MASSIVE cost difference that stereo IEMs provide!

A P1 can run stereo, as can a P2 (unbalanced). The real cost is how many auxes are available to you.

[EBS_freak]

...but then if you are running something ultranet enabled (XR18, X32) - then P16M is surely a budget friendly stereo solution?

[Woodinblack]

27 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

...but then if you are running something ultranet enabled (XR18, X32) - then P16M is surely a budget friendly stereo solution?

 

Indeed - and I guess at that point it shows where the difference in 'budget friendly' is for different people!

 

[EBS_freak]

I guess if people arent in the position to spend anything, then I guess thats why alot of people say "tried IEMS and they were rubbish".

 

I'd hope that people are gigging with enough to provide 2 auxes and a P2 with a set of ZS somethings to at least try...?

[DaytonaRik]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

A P1 can run stereo, as can a P2 (unbalanced). The real cost is how many auxes are available to you.

 

I picked up a used P1 for our drummer for £30 - a perfect solution for non-mobile musicians!

[Woodinblack]

14 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

I guess if people arent in the position to spend anything, then I guess thats why alot of people say "tried IEMS and they were rubbish".

 

Whats this got to do with spending nothing?  I already have IEMs, this is your assertion about stereo is a must

 

 

14 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

I'd hope that people are gigging with enough to provide 2 auxes and a P2 with a set of ZS somethings to at least try...?

 

I have a P2 (although the drummer uses it). I have an X18, so I have 4 aux busses. The drummer uses one (with my P2 - he doesn't want stereo, all he wants is his vocal in ears). I could use 2 of the other 3, as noone has bothered with inears in the rest of the group, but then I have to get it to me. I don't want to use a p2, as I am fully wireless, so it would break the purpose of that, si I would have have to get a stereo wireless as well.

If I used a P16M, where would I put that? another box to power and connect as well as the mixer, the PA, the lights, the IEM, the bass, the speakers, the X Touch etc.

[EBS_freak]

4 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Whats this got to do with spending nothing?  I already have IEMs, this is your assertion about stereo is a must

 

 

 

I have a P2 (although the drummer uses it). I have an X18, so I have 4 aux busses. The drummer uses one (with my P2 - he doesn't want stereo, all he wants is his vocal in ears). I could use 2 of the other 3, as noone has bothered with inears in the rest of the group, but then I have to get it to me. I don't want to use a p2, as I am fully wireless, so it would break the purpose of that, si I would have have to get a stereo wireless as well.

If I used a P16M, where would I put that? another box to power and connect as well as the mixer, the PA, the lights, the IEM, the bass, the speakers, the X Touch etc.

I dont believe I have ever said that stereo is a must. It is certainly preferable.

 

Hang on, you never said anything about being wireless. I was talking about stereo and the fact that stereo doesn't necessarily come at a greater cost.

 

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Hang on, you never said anything about being wireless. I was talking about stereo and the fact that stereo doesn't necessarily come at a greater cost.

 

Not in this post, although I have mentioned it quite a bit that I use an XVive U4 (or whatever it is called). If there was something in stereo that was affordable and worked as easily as that, then I would use it. I do only have the 4 ports but as the singer doens't like IEMs and the guitarist says he can't use them and doesn't seem to be in a hurry to buy himself a monitor, and the drummer will never need more than 1 channel, I would be happy to use it.

Although as there is only a guitar and a sax and vocals, not sure how much use it would be.

[EBS_freak]

I suppose you could get another XViveU4, and take each output into a PM1 (passive) for volume control.

 

The real nice stereo separation comes when you mic up drums. I'm assuming that you only have guitar, sax, bass and vocals? A pan of guitar and sax with bass and vocals down the middle seems a logical starting point. If you have any stereo fx going into your IEMs, they obviously sound pretty amazing - (e.g. stereo reverbs)

Edited August 15, 2022 by EBS_freak

[DaytonaRik]

11 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

I suppose you could get another XViveU4, and take each output into a PM1 (passive) for volume control.

 

The real nice stereo separation comes when you mic up drums. I'm assuming that you only have guitar, sax, bass and vocals? A pan of guitar and sax with bass and vocals down the middle seems a logical starting point. If you have any stereo fx going into your IEMs, they obviously sound pretty amazing - (e.g. stereo reverbs)

 

The drummer and I pan our IEM feeds as if it were a live stage - toms and o/heads panned as per the kit with guitars panned a little wider left/right.   Kick, snare, bass and lead vocal down the middle and backing vocals left/right of centre. Not sure how 'by the book' that is but it works pretty well for us  

[EBS_freak]

Sounds fair enough. I always hard pan the drum over heads, gives a really wide sound - and obviously brings in a nice big of ambience to give a real nice wide sound stage.

Edited August 15, 2022 by EBS_freak