The IEM (in ear monitors) Bible thread

[warwickhunt]

I'm trialling IEM and need advice... has anyone ever not?  LOL

 

I'm trying to go IEM and no backline.

 

I tried my KZ10's with our guitarists x-vive and I wasn't convinced as I was having drop outs of either or both of my IE and my instrument wireless gear.  I bought a P2 and I seem to have the most horrendous latency/boxyness to the sound in my ears particularly when doing vocals.  No time to analyse what the cause is as it was bish/bash/bosh in/on/off/away at the gig.  

 

My set up went; vocal to desk (Soundcraft U12), bass to desk via Sansamp DI.  Aux send from desk via cable to wedge monitor (not turned up but there as a back up) > thru to cable to P2 on strap and to KZ10s.

 

Can I possibly be missing something but how come the other vocal in the band were fine and clear yet my vocal sounded like it had loads of delay/latency?  

 

Going to try new stuff this afternoon inc direct from desk to ears no monitor thru.

[EBS_freak]

Are you sure you didn't have any fx going into your aux? Or something like a fx return?

[warwickhunt]

7 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Are you sure you didn't have any fx going into your aux? Or something like a fx return?

 

I'll certainly check.

[Chienmortbb]

22 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Are you sure you didn't have any fx going into your aux? Or something like a fx return?

Good shout. Click on the channel Name at the bottom of the screen, then select EFX at the top of the next one. You can then see the amount of reverb, delay, chorus or rooms assigned to your channel. The easy way is to mute them all. I will post an image when I have cleared some crap out.

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Chienmortbb

[warwickhunt]

Cheers folks, next use is Saturday and I'll dive straight in and see if anything is applied.

 

Just to clarify; the FX sends are they assigned to FOH and aux sends independently?  

Edited May 9, 2023 by warwickhunt

[Chienmortbb]

50 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Good shout. Click on the channel Name at the bottom of the screen, then select EFX at the top of the next one. You can then see the amount of reverb, delay, chorus or rooms assigned to your channel. The easy way is to mute them all. I will post an image when I have cleared some crap out.

 

34 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

Cheers folks, next use is Saturday and I'll dive straight in and see if anything is applied.

 

Just to clarify; the FX sends are they assigned to FOH and aux sends independently?  

If you click on the AUX button you will be offered all the aux bus sliders and there is a pre post toggle at the bottom.

I should add that the UI12 has only two Aux buses as standard, but you can reassign the headphone socket as Aux 3 & 4

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Chienmortbb

[EBS_freak]

Think of it like this.

 

The FX send is how much of a particular channel you send to an fx unit.

 

Only when you turn up a slider for the FX return, will that summed fx get routed to your FoH and Auxes.

 

The FX unit sums up everything it gets and it's the FX return which dictates how much of that fx is introduced to the foh and aux busses. (So many FX sends for a mix, (whether that be for foh or aux) but only one return per fx. If you dont want any fx going to your auxes, make sure that the return is down, likewise, if you do want it to go to your aux, make sure its up. The more tuned in amongst you will probably realise that if you send something to the fx unit, you lose the option to have a different fx mix (for 1 unit) in your aux to your foh. (That's where you need to have one fx send just for foh, and another for auxes for example... or another desk) 

[warwickhunt]

9 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Think of it like this.

 

The FX send is how much of a particular channel you send to an fx unit.

 

Only when you turn up a slider for the FX return, will that summed fx get routed to your FoH and Auxes.

 

The FX unit sums up everything it gets and it's the FX return which dictates how much of that fx is introduced to the foh and aux busses. (So many FX sends for a mix, (whether that be for foh or aux) but only one return per fx. If you dont want any fx going to your auxes, make sure that the return is down, likewise, if you do want it to go to your aux, make sure its up. The more tuned in amongst you will probably realise that if you send something to the fx unit, you lose the option to have a different fx mix (for 1 unit) in your aux to your foh. (That's where you need to have one fx send just for foh, and another for auxes for example... or another desk) 

 

Took a couple of read through but I got there.    Not your explanation but I'm just getting to grips with the way digi-desks are configured etc.

[DaytonaRik]

On 28/02/2023 at 14:14, EBS_freak said:

I know you don't want to hear it - but I don't tend to recommend much from the analogue world - Shure EW300 G2+ and Shure 900+ (or 300 with the pro pack) being my go to. 

 

 

Is that the Sennheiser EW300 G2?  Potentially in the market for a new IEM system and the Sennheiser has been on my radar for a little while.

[EBS_freak]

On 09/05/2023 at 21:57, DaytonaRik said:

 

Is that the Sennheiser EW300 G2?  Potentially in the market for a new IEM system and the Sennheiser has been on my radar for a little while.

Yes. I'm advocating the EW300 G2, EW300 G3 and EW300 G4... but not the EW300 G1.

[DaytonaRik]

8 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Yes. I'm advocating the EW300 G2, EW300 G3 and EW300 G4... but not the EW300 G1.

 

Thanks - appreciate the advice, as always 👍😎

[mrtcat]

I've done over 400 gigs with my shure psm300 (with the upgraded receiver pack) and it has been faultless. If mine got nicked I'd buy the same again.

[mcnach]

1 hour ago, mrtcat said:

I've done over 400 gigs with my shure psm300 (with the upgraded receiver pack) and it has been faultless. If mine got nicked I'd buy the same again.

 

How would you know who stole it? 

 

 

[Muppet]

Sennheiser EW IEM G4 here with UE6s in stereo and no backline. It’s pricey but great quality and I love it.

[warwickhunt]

On 30/04/2023 at 14:30, warwickhunt said:

I'm trialling IEM and need advice... has anyone ever not?  LOL

 

I'm trying to go IEM and no backline.

 

I tried my KZ10's with our guitarists x-vive and I wasn't convinced as I was having drop outs of either or both of my IE and my instrument wireless gear.  I bought a P2 and I seem to have the most horrendous latency/boxyness to the sound in my ears particularly when doing vocals.  No time to analyse what the cause is as it was bish/bash/bosh in/on/off/away at the gig.  

 

My set up went; vocal to desk (Soundcraft U12), bass to desk via Sansamp DI.  Aux send from desk via cable to wedge monitor (not turned up but there as a back up) > thru to cable to P2 on strap and to KZ10s.

 

Can I possibly be missing something but how come the other vocal in the band were fine and clear yet my vocal sounded like it had loads of delay/latency?  

 

Going to try new stuff this afternoon inc direct from desk to ears no monitor thru.

 

Tonight's set up (RCF 310 is my safety net), pedal case contains Fishman Platinum Pro EQ, all my leads, guitar stand, mic etc.

 

 

Tonight's 

[DaytonaRik]

On 12/05/2023 at 21:06, Muppet said:

Sennheiser EW IEM G4 here with UE6s in stereo and no backline. It’s pricey but great quality and I love it.

 

I've been using a DB Technologies IEM2000 for about 20 years (I actually have a pair of them!)...it could be time for me to upgrade!  I'm very happy with my 64 Audio A3 custom earpieces, just feel it's time to upgrade the wireless side of things and the EW300 G4 is well and truly on the shopping list.  I lost the backline last year with the addition of the Bass Dapper pedal, but I'd long been a fan of silent stages and DI'd heads with minimal backline.  Now if only I could get the guitarists to join the silent party!

[Jack]

Good morning all, a specific question but I'm wondering if you could help me. In both of my bands I currently play what is technically ampless but I still need to bring a wedge because the stages aren't silent they're just quiet and without any monitoring I'd be relying on PA subwoofer rumble, not ideal. I'm slowly passing soundman duties in one band to our guitarist, so the ability to go to IEMs is opening up.

 

However, I'm largely deaf (down about 20dB) in my right ear. This isn't due to noise exposure, it was originally thought to be otosclerosis but that turned out to be a misdiagnosis and now I just have hearing loss and chronic pain. Oh well! Due to this I can find wearing headphones quite discomforting and disorienting unless I use a pan to go some way to balancing out the sound volume discrepancy. I don't do this often and essentially just can't wear headphones. This leads to two problems with IEMs.

 

1. I assume that with a stereo system there'd be nothing stopping me from setting the LR channel levels differently, are there any mono systems with a pan/balance control or similar that I can just use to dip my toes in? I love the simplicity of the Xvive system, but it's mono and no pan. It's not so much the money of the stereo system, it's the having to go with another rack bag, plug, everything. If I could spend £150 on the easy system just to see if I can like IEMs then I have no qualms about going all in afterwards, but I really, really hate headphones. Would one IEM and one normal earplug work?

 

2. If I do this, I'm paradoxically worried about IEMs damaging my hearing. Because of the volume 'averaging' that your ears do, and because I think it's 20dB quieter than it actually is, I'm worried about having a comfortable volume in my left ear and blasting my (already damaged) right ear to bits with a signal that's 20dB hotter than that. Is there any kind of way to measure actual IEM volume? I know I could get one of those million pound face simulating mics but, well.

 

Thanks in advance. And if anyone know an audiologist who wants to make a career out of treating Jack's Syndrome then do please let me know.

[Kev]

On 14/04/2023 at 08:56, mcnach said:

 

 

I just got one of these (£41 on Amazon).

 

I have been using a wired IEM system for a little while, simple but it works, although that thick combined instrument/phones cable is not the most comfy. I bought a U4 to give the wireless option a try but ended up selling it unused since, of course, most of my gigs at the moment seem to be those where I need an amplifier.

 

But for £41, being stereo, I thought it could be useful at home, and that's what I got it for.

 

It sounds good, no significant noise added (I thought for a minute that there was some hiss but turned out to be my drum machine, so very quiet overall), and the units are tiny and superlight. I'm waiting for a Backbeat (ordered in September, shipping this month, yay!), so with the MS-1 and the Backbeat I hope to have a nice home setup at least.

 

I have not yet experimented with cummulative latencies, that's for the weekend. Used on its own (using a Zoom R16 as a mixer/recorder, where the drum track is recorded direct, and sent to my ears via the MS-1) it's just fine. I tried adding my ancient Line6 G30 wireless instrument unit to the mix. Not sure what's its latency, but I'm pretty sure it was around 4-5ms. Again, that worked well. But I'm not sure how it'll be once I start adding digital FX etc, this unit is not going to suit everybody but if you use no effects, or a few analog ones it'll probably be okay too. 

 

For a cheap home-use solution they seem quite useful as long as your personal chain does not take the latency to the point it gets noticeable.  

 

Interesting read.  I am thinking of picking up a Lekato MS-1 for live use. Band is struggling along on a basic Gear4music IEM system and the receivers are becoming less and less reliable, so i'm wondering if this is a short term solution to risking silence at a gig, if they will work well enough, before I magic up the money for a proper system.

[JohnDaBass]

All great stuff Guys but just watched a couple of hours of the Jeff Beck tribute concert on UThube, and not an IEM in sight. 

Lots of titchy, tiny (Fender) combos miked and played at comfortable levels. Lovely sounding Laney Digbeth amp & 4x10 or 4x8 cab.

Am I missing something 😒

[EBS_freak]

5 minutes ago, JohnDaBass said:

Am I missing something 😒

Yes, these are old boys, all sporting tinnitus.

[JohnDaBass]

29 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Yes, these are old boys, all sporting tinnitus.

Pardon 😂

[jimmyb625]

47 minutes ago, JohnDaBass said:

All great stuff Guys but just watched a couple of hours of the Jeff Beck tribute concert on UThube, and not an IEM in sight. 

Lots of titchy, tiny (Fender) combos miked and played at comfortable levels. Lovely sounding Laney Digbeth amp & 4x10 or 4x8 cab.

Am I missing something 😒

 

Well, you seem to have missed this singer for starters... 🤣

[EBS_freak]

You mean the younger singer (that’s gets the importance of protecting her ears and hearing a much better mix) that has an IEM in her left ear (you can see the cable running parallel with her neck) and the other one hanging over her left shoulder? (Admittedly I wouldn’t recommend doing that)

Edited May 25, 2023 by EBS_freak

[jimmyb625]

15 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

You mean the younger singer (that’s gets the importance of protecting her ears and hearing a much better mix) that has an IEM in her left ear (you can see the cable running parallel with her neck) and the other one hanging over her left shoulder? (Admittedly I wouldn’t recommend doing that)

Yes, that's the one! 

 

Also, despite him not using them here (which I'd guess is because he's only on for a couple of songs) Rod Stewart was an early adopter of IEM's for his band.

[Woodinblack]

Hardly a tribute to Jeff Beck then - he had quite bad tinitus which he found quite depressing so wore IEMs