The IEM (in ear monitors) Bible thread

[gazhowe]

On 27/12/2023 at 15:59, MrPring said:

Thanks for the detailed response! 

 

I see the custom IEM company has universal demo units. 

 

Might make an appointment to head down and listen to some options and get my impressions done from them. 

 

Definitely wouldn't be wanting to go lower than quads 🤠

Good call to make an appointment with Paul at the Custom In Ear company. Following lots of great info in this thread from @EBS_freak and others I made an appointment with Paul in August to demo the Ultimate Ears UE6 & UE11, and 64 Audio's A4s. I went for the A4s (https://www.64audio.com/products/a4s) although the UE6 did sound good too. 

[JPJ]

So after experimenting with the combination of KZ ZS10 pros and X-Vive U4 and generally enjoying the experience, I think I am ready to upgrade the ZS10's to a custom moulded solution as I have, like many, struggled to achieve good isolation with the ZS10's irregardless of the rubber or foam tips I use. I already have a pair of ACS custom moulded ear plugs that I use when IEM is not possible so I have been looking at the various ACS IEM products and I have a question.

 

ACS offer a 'ambient' IEM that includes a port with their 17db filter - the same filter I use in my plugs. It seems the idea is that you only need to feed your instrument into the IEM with everything else on stage coming from the ambient port (or you can feed as much of the rest of the band as you need and top up with the ambient). This would work great for me as both my bands are still reliant on backline and acoustic drums. Given the amount of knowledge and experience on here, what is the collected wisdom on ambient IEM solutions?

[JPJ]

On 20/12/2023 at 10:30, bogleshake said:

 

My question is has anyone managed to make the KZ’s fit an ACS custom plug or am I going to need to stretch to the Evolve Classics, as the chat seems to be that anything less than 3 drivers are going to be insufficient for bass?

 

I've tried this and failed miserably. The tip of the KZ is seductively close in profile to the outer shape of the ACS filter, but the connection isn't strong enough to support the KZ unit, and the entry angle is also wrong such that the KZ over ear loop doesn't sit right on my ears. 

[MrPring]

Anyone had any experience with the 64 Audio N8s? 

 

Now they're probably way over my budget but are designed as custom models by a bassist and singer. 

 

I also have just dug out the email address of a 64 rep I got given at a festival about 5 years ago so hopefully he still works there and I can tap him up for an artist deal 🥸

Edited December 29, 2023 by MrPring

[MrPring]

1 hour ago, gazhowe said:

Good call to make an appointment with Paul at the Custom In Ear company. Following lots of great info in this thread from @EBS_freak and others I made an appointment with Paul in August to demo the Ultimate Ears UE6 & UE11, and 64 Audio's A4s. I went for the A4s (https://www.64audio.com/products/a4s) although the UE6 did sound good too. 

Nice one Gaz, this is my plan in the new year! 

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, JPJ said:

ACS offer a 'ambient' IEM that includes a port with their 17db filter - the same filter I use in my plugs. It seems the idea is that you only need to feed your instrument into the IEM with everything else on stage coming from the ambient port (or you can feed as much of the rest of the band as you need and top up with the ambient). This would work great for me as both my bands are still reliant on backline and acoustic drums. Given the amount of knowledge and experience on here, what is the collected wisdom on ambient IEM solutions?

My thoughts are in the opening posts.

[MrPring]

@EBS_freakdo you still have your A12t's?

 

Still use them? 

 

I saw on the old thread you preferred them to the N8s 

[JPJ]

20 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

My thoughts are in the opening posts.

Thanks, and noted 😉

[EBS_freak]

2 hours ago, MrPring said:

@EBS_freakdo you still have your A12t's?

 

Still use them? 

 

I saw on the old thread you preferred them to the N8s 

My go to are still A12ts. Still my fave model.

[bogleshake]

On 29/12/2023 at 13:08, JPJ said:

I've tried this and failed miserably. The tip of the KZ is seductively close in profile to the outer shape of the ACS filter, but the connection isn't strong enough to support the KZ unit, and the entry angle is also wrong such that the KZ over ear loop doesn't sit right on my ears. 

Thanks for this. I’ve ended up ordering a pair of ACS Evolve IEM’s in the hope that the custom fit cancels out the extra drivers of the KZ’s. 

[dave_bass5]

2 hours ago, bogleshake said:

Thanks for this. I’ve ended up ordering a pair of ACS Evolve IEM’s in the hope that the custom fit cancels out the extra drivers of the KZ’s. 

Even a different fit might do the job. I’ve had a nightmare with off the shelf IEM’s until i found the IE100’s. The fit was completely different to my previous ones and suddenly all the issue i had went away. 

[warwickhunt]

In order to persevere with going IE and zero backline I've just purchased the Sennheiser IE100 (wired) IEs via Amazon @ £83 and 'for my ear shape' these are proving a revelation over the Linsoul KZ10s.  

 

The seal/isolation is clearly improved even just with the standard foam bud that came fitted (I trialled 6 different buds with the K10s none sealed well or felt comfortable); the low profile and lighter weight also make them easier to wear.  I'm aware that they are a 1 driver unit as opposed to the 5 driver of the KZ10 but the overall sound is more pleasing to me when using program music.  A quick test with my bass (into the Mooer P1 and a Behringer P2) seems to indicate I'm getting smoother bass and less harsh top end.  Oddly before the IE100s I didn't think the KZ10s had any harshness.  I'll know better next weekend at the gig if the overall mix sounds better.  

 

Just my initial observations. 

[dave_bass5]

50 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

In order to persevere with going IE and zero backline I've just purchased the Sennheiser IE100 (wired) IEs via Amazon @ £83 and 'for my ear shape' these are proving a revelation over the Linsoul KZ10s.  

 

The seal/isolation is clearly improved even just with the standard foam bud that came fitted (I trialled 6 different buds with the K10s none sealed well or felt comfortable); the low profile and lighter weight also make them easier to wear.  I'm aware that they are a 1 driver unit as opposed to the 5 driver of the KZ10 but the overall sound is more pleasing to me when using program music.  A quick test with my bass (into the Mooer P1 and a Behringer P2) seems to indicate I'm getting smoother bass and less harsh top end.  Oddly before the IE100s I didn't think the KZ10s had any harshness.  I'll know better next weekend at the gig if the overall mix sounds better.  

 

Just my initial observations. 

Pretty much exactly what i said a few months ago when i got my IE100’s. Also comparing to the KZ’s. I do now have the IE400’s, which do sound a bit fuller, but I’d happily use my singers IE100’s if i lost mine and probably would get another set of IE100’s as the fit is slightly better. 
these are the first IEM’s  i ve had where I’m not constantly fiddling with the fit, especially my right ear. 
i do use Comply foam tips for extra isolation and these give me a rock solid seal at last. 

[WalMan]

I got an Xvive unit to try with the moulded plugs that I got from Mercury (as I'd used them before for protectors & they're near the office to be able to call in) but actually most places we gig there's not a lot of space to run around so I normally just hardwire from Aux to a Behringer P2.

 

Because the kit is not fully mic'd I got a cheapish boundary mic from Studiospares to place behind the kit for a bit of ambience & general kit and that seems to work well, and better (probably also safer/cheaper) than having my Zoom H6 to do the same job.

 

I am really pleased with how it is going so far. I don't dig in too hard on the bass now because I can hear myself better, and don't over strain on BV's for the same reason so get to the end of an evening easier & pitching better.

 

Downsides for me are trusting bandmates and sound guy to get / allow a  decent bass level in FOH as the guitarists are often after me keeping onstage levels down - fine so long as FOH is adjusted accordingly because I can hear my bass fine in the IEM's but which I sometimes wonder about re FOH. It sometimes feels like my amp is barely ticking over. Also after the last gig I need to double check that the the feeds to my aux are pre-fade - I have a sneaking suspicion some or all may not be after my head was nearly taken off by one of the loops running off the the Alesis Multipad that I had said might need pushing in FOH as I had adjusted level down on one sample and realised I had possibly overcompensated at the previous gig & forgotten to reset before the last gig.

[mrtcat]

On 27/12/2023 at 14:22, MrPring said:

Have we any other opinions on Lugs? I know your man a few pages back wasn't keen but everything else I've read has been really positive. 

I can only say positive things about my experience with Lugs.

 

I started out with UE6s bought from Custom Iem Company and was very happy with them. After a couple of years they suddenly started sounding awful. All the bottom end had gone and I was having to drive them into distortion just to be able to hear them. I considered buying Lugs 6 driver model so contacted Robert. I explained the issue I had with my UE6s and he suggested that my ear shape had probably changed a bit making it so I was no longer getting a good seal. He offered to test them to check all was working inside and confirmed all components were functioning properly. I got my ear impressions redone by a local Audiologist (anyone in Northamptonshire I can highly recommend The Ear Place in towcester) and sent them to Robert at Lugs. Within a week he had reshelled my UE6s and now they sound better than they ever did. Saved me a fortune in buying new ones and have done probably 100+ gigs since with nothing but excellent sound. I sing a lot too and have never had any issues.

[dave_bass5]

Sorry if this has been discussed already, im a bit out of the loop with Stereo wireless.

Just wondering if anyone has used or has a real world experience with this set up. Although I don’t need to move about when playing, im starting got find a cabled system to be a bit of a pain when I need to go to other parts of the stage and fix/plug things in for others etc.

 

Price seems reasonable. Must have stereo. This is digital and I know the 2.4 band is congested, but higher costing systems is a bit of a struggle right now. 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_iem_d24_b_stock.htm

Edited January 5 by dave_bass5

[warwickhunt]

6 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Sorry if this has been discussed already, im a bit out of the loop with Stereo wireless.

Just wondering if anyone has used or has a real world experience with this set up. Although I don’t need to move about when playing, im starting got find a cabled system to be a bit of a pain when I need to go to other parts of the stage and fix/plug things in for others etc.

 

Price seems reasonable. Must have stereo. This is digital and I know the 2.4 band is congested, but higher costing systems is a bit of a struggle right now. 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_iem_d24_b_stock.htm

 

For about £60 the Lekato system 'does the job'.  I'm defo not saying it is a solid piece of kit that will stand up to years of road use, especially if you aren't careful, it ISN'T.  However, for a toe in the water it is absolutely fine, especially if you are unsure.  A few people have detected a little distortion (I can't) but it could be dependent on other equipment.  I'll stress that it is light weight and plastic but it does what it says on the tin.  

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/LEKATO-MS-1-Transmitter-Automatic-Performance-Receiver/dp/B0B9W5S4N8/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2MPTLFFLZ91OR&keywords=lekato%2Bwireless%2Bin%2Bear&qid=1704485289&sprefix=lekato%2Bwireless%2Bin%2Bear%2B%2Caps%2C81&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

[dave_bass5]

8 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

 

For about £60 the Lekato system 'does the job'.  I'm defo not saying it is a solid piece of kit that will stand up to years of road use, especially if you aren't careful, it ISN'T.  However, for a toe in the water it is absolutely fine, especially if you are unsure.  A few people have detected a little distortion (I can't) but it could be dependent on other equipment.  I'll stress that it is light weight and plastic but it does what it says on the tin.  

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/LEKATO-MS-1-Transmitter-Automatic-Performance-Receiver/dp/B0B9W5S4N8/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2MPTLFFLZ91OR&keywords=lekato%2Bwireless%2Bin%2Bear&qid=1704485289&sprefix=lekato%2Bwireless%2Bin%2Bear%2B%2Caps%2C81&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

Thanks but it looks like latency is quite high. Im coming from a wired P2 (fed from an XR18) so not dipping my toe in the water, just looking  for a cheapish reliable stereo system that I can use with keys.

If I was to get something like that id probably go for the NUX B7PSM. I know its had mixed reviews, but I read a few interesting ones that state the distortion in not really noticeable in a live situation, which is fine for me. 

Im wondering now if i should I look at a UFH system instead.

Edited January 5 by dave_bass5

[warwickhunt]

I was aware of the latency but it is the only digital in my chain, so not noticeable... to me!    

 

'IF' I was serious about wanting the best and everything was crucial, I'd not be looking at this but as a tester/taster it has proven to be well worth the £60.  Our guitar player has the X-Vive and he has more drop out than I do at x5-6 times the price + if something is going to clash with desks and/or routers it tends not to be the Lekato.  Just anecdotal.  

[EBS_freak]

51 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Sorry if this has been discussed already, im a bit out of the loop with Stereo wireless.

Just wondering if anyone has used or has a real world experience with this set up. Although I don’t need to move about when playing, im starting got find a cabled system to be a bit of a pain when I need to go to other parts of the stage and fix/plug things in for others etc.

 

Price seems reasonable. Must have stereo. This is digital and I know the 2.4 band is congested, but higher costing systems is a bit of a struggle right now. 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_iem_d24_b_stock.htm

I have seen this before, it's a rebadge of the MiPro 2.4 system and I have toyed with getting one. I have no experience of it.. but the Mipro 5.8 digital system gets some great reviews and if you scroll back you'll see how good that sounds. Now, I know that doesn't necessarily translate between models... but as I say, if Thomann did the 5.8 system, I'd buy one straight off to try.

 

Maybe the 2.4 is worth a shot for you? You could always send it back if it didn't suit (although I appreciate thats a semi pita)

[EBS_freak]

26 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

I was aware of the latency but it is the only digital in my chain, so not noticeable... to me!    

 

'IF' I was serious about wanting the best and everything was crucial, I'd not be looking at this but as a tester/taster it has proven to be well worth the £60.  Our guitar player has the X-Vive and he has more drop out than I do at x5-6 times the price + if something is going to clash with desks and/or routers it tends not to be the Lekato.  Just anecdotal.  

Conversely, it could be the Lekato causing the other systems to drop out.

[warwickhunt]

21 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Conversely, it could be the Lekato causing the other systems to drop out.

 

Good point.  I know I've chopped and changed during my trials, so there's no continuity but there have been times when I've not used the Lekato and there have been issues elsewhere.  I'm back to using it again so I'll take more notice (trialling new IE with Behringer P2 and/or Lekato wireless).  

 

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

I have seen this before, it's a rebadge of the MiPro 2.4 system and I have toyed with getting one. I have no experience of it.. but the Mipro 5.8 digital system gets some great reviews and if you scroll back you'll see how good that sounds. Now, I know that doesn't necessarily translate between models... but as I say, if Thomann did the 5.8 system, I'd buy one straight off to try.

 

Maybe the 2.4 is worth a shot for you? You could always send it back if it didn't suit (although I appreciate thats a semi pita)

Thanks Russ. Yeah, those look identical. I’ll have a read up on the MIPRO.  I do feel that 2.4 will be ok. I know it’s not just about what else is being used on stage, but there are only two other wireless systems being used in the band (both XVIVE) with no issues. 

Ill have a think over the weekend but i dont mind sending it back if it doesnt work out. I might try and time it so i have it when i next gig. 

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, warwickhunt said:

I was aware of the latency but it is the only digital in my chain, so not noticeable... to me!    

 

'IF' I was serious about wanting the best and everything was crucial, I'd not be looking at this but as a tester/taster it has proven to be well worth the £60.  Our guitar player has the X-Vive and he has more drop out than I do at x5-6 times the price + if something is going to clash with desks and/or routers it tends not to be the Lekato.  Just anecdotal.  

Must admit latency has never been an issue with any wireless ive used on bass, but ive not used wirless IEM other than my singers Xvive (just to see if i liked mono). One of my guitarists also uses an Xvive for his guitar, and in neither have had issues with drop outs. 

We do now have a router on stage with a few devices connecting over 5khz and nothing on the 2.4 range. 

[Woodinblack]

I have the lekato system which I use with the chapman stick and it works for me. I don't have a problem with latency but some people seem to have more problems with it than me