The IEM (in ear monitors) Bible thread

[dave_bass5]

22 minutes ago, Greg Edwards69 said:

Comply foam tips do "go off" after a while and need replacing. A build-up of sweat, body oils and ear wax will see to that. The trouble is, I usually don't realise that that's the problem when they don't stay in place anymore.

Yeah. I’ve tried other cheaper versions and they seem to hold up a bit longer, but the Comply’s seem to fit better. 

[EBS_freak]

6 hours ago, MichaelDean said:

I had it backwards - I had a set of ACS earplugs made while I was at uni and had the same thing with those. Couldn't stand using them because as soon as I opened my mouth, the seal broke. Comply tips are fine for me though! It's so strange how something can be so different between people!

This is because for some reason unknown to me, ACS don't take open mouth impressions themselves, or advise anybody to do so, using a one inch bite block. I'm guessing you fall into that camp re:closed mouth impression?

 

Result? Seal breaks every time you open your mouth.

 

Check 1.4.1 - I talk about the importance of an impression with a bite block in there.

Edited February 20 by EBS_freak

[MichaelDean]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

This is because for some reason unknown to me, ACS don't take open mouth impressions themselves, or advise anybody to do so, using a one inch bite block. I'm guessing you fall into that camp re:closed mouth impression?

 

Result? Seal breaks every time you open your mouth.

 

Check 1.4.1 - I talk about the importance of an impression with a bite block in there.

Yep! Mouth closed. The guy also said my ears were a bit waxy, but went ahead anyway 🙄 

 

I did actually manage to make some custom sleeves of my own with two part silicone. Mix it up, bite down on something, get it into my ear, push the standard fit IEM in and let it set. Then, when dry enough, take it out and let it fully cure. After that, I got a drill bit and gently used that to make a hole connecting the IEM and where it should exit. They don't last very long (I think I generally got 4/6 months from a set) like that as the hole makes them fairly weak and they get a bit gross as it isn't smooth, but I know how good a custom fit can be! 

 

The second bend in my left ear is quite severe as well, judging by the mould. 

 

I stopped a few years ago. The band folded and it seemed like too much faff, even if it elevated the performance of the IEMs. Plus the foam tips were 90% of the way there. And now my phone doesn't have a headphone jack and I wouldn't be able to get the moulds in a rechargeable Bluetooth earphone case. Probably also a bit risky just pushing silicone into your ear too... I didn't mind the sensation though 😅

[songofthewind]

I've just had moulds made for my hearing aids. The audiologist put tiny sponges on strings into my ears before applying the two part silicon glop. No drills involved. I am looking forward to getting them next week.

[DaytonaRik]

On 20/02/2024 at 12:22, dave_bass5 said:

...i need to play in Stereo...

 

This makes a huge difference.  When you listen to a mono IEM mix everything is overlayed and can get cluttered, making it quite difficult to hear different instruments.  By utilising a stereo IEM mix then you can pan each instrument within the stereo image relative to the on-stage position which makes for a much more accurate mix.  It really is as big a game changer as using IEMs themselves.

 

The down side is that you can quickly burn through AUX sends at an alarming rate and once you have 4-5 piece bands the 6 AUX sends offered by the likes of the XR18 etc  simply don't offer enough outputs.

 

Edited February 22 by DaytonaRik

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, DaytonaRik said:

 

This makes a huge difference.  When you listen to a mono IEM mix everything is overlayed and can get cluttered, making it quite difficult to hear different instruments.  By utilising a stereo IEM mix then you can pan each instrument within the stereo image relative to the on-stage position which makes for a much more accurate mix.  It really is as big a game changer as using IEMs themselves.

 

The down side is that you can quickly burn through AUX sends at an alarming rate and once you have 4-5 piece bands the 6 AUX sends offered by the likes of the XR18 etc  simply don't offer enough outputs.

 

...but on the other hand, you do get access to Ultranet, allowing you to go down a completely different route where the number of auxes no longer matter!

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, DaytonaRik said:

 

This makes a huge difference.  When you listen to a mono IEM mix everything is overlayed and can get cluttered, making it quite difficult to hear different instruments.  By utilising a stereo IEM mix then you can pan each instrument within the stereo image relative to the on-stage position which makes for a much more accurate mix.  It really is as big a game changer as using IEMs themselves.

 

The down side is that you can quickly burn through AUX sends at an alarming rate and once you have 4-5 piece bands the 6 AUX sends offered by the likes of the XR18 etc  simply don't offer enough outputs.

 

Yeah, not sure i could get by with mono, at least not for keyboards. Too much phase cancellation etc. 

On the odd occasion I’ve had a listen to one of the other mono mixes I’ve been shocked at the difference. Non of the band have ever commented but then the signer only has a mono system so it’s irrelevant for her.

Now one of the guitarists has the Lekto and can use stereo I’m going to have to juggle the Aux’s around. 
The plan is to now have me and him using 2 each, singer has one and the final one will go to the drummer’s floor monitor.  This will then chain to the other floor monitor for the bass player and other guitarist. They don’t need anything special so they can fight it out over the mix. 

[police squad]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

...but on the other hand, you do get access to Ultranet, allowing you to go down a completely different route where the number of auxes no longer matter!

can you explain please?

[jimmyb625]

23 minutes ago, police squad said:

can you explain please?

It's basically a way of networking audio from the mixer. It allows you to use a unit (Powerplay) which will give you a custom mix, independent of any aux mixes you'd use from the desk.

 

[Muppet]

32 minutes ago, police squad said:

can you explain please?

Check out the Behringer P16M. It's a small 16 channel personal mixer that you can connect to your IEMs and you have full control over your IEM mix in stereo.  I use one and it's superb, I just run a Cat 5 cable from the XR18 mixer to the P16M, connect that to my Sennheiser IEM transmitter and off I go. You can also get a distributor module that can feed the raw audio data to another eight P16M units so you don't have to use two aux channels per person in order to give everyone a stereo feed. 

Edited February 22 by Muppet

[Kirky]

44 minutes ago, Muppet said:

Check out the Behringer P16M. It's a small 16 channel personal mixer that you can connect to your IEMs and you have full control over your IEM mix in stereo.  I use one and it's superb, I just run a Cat 5 cable from the XR18 mixer to the P16M, connect that to my Sennheiser IEM transmitter and off I go. You can also get a distributor module that can feed the raw audio data to another eight P16M units so you don't have to use two aux channels per person in order to give everyone a stereo feed. 

I'm thinking of doing the same.  Is the Phones out on the P16M enough to drive my IEMs or would I need to continue to use my P1?   I'd probably continue to used wired IEM for the time being.

[police squad]

48 minutes ago, Muppet said:

Check out the Behringer P16M. It's a small 16 channel personal mixer that you can connect to your IEMs and you have full control over your IEM mix in stereo.  I use one and it's superb, I just run a Cat 5 cable from the XR18 mixer to the P16M, connect that to my Sennheiser IEM transmitter and off I go. You can also get a distributor module that can feed the raw audio data to another eight P16M units so you don't have to use two aux channels per person in order to give everyone a stereo feed. 

interesting mate, thanks. Can this be done with an Allen & Heath sq20 I wonder. If I change desk it will be to the SQ20

[Muppet]

12 minutes ago, police squad said:

interesting mate, thanks. Can this be done with an Allen & Heath sq20 I wonder. If I change desk it will be to the SQ20

I think the Behringer unit is a rip off of the Allen and Heath ME500 version which will work with your SQ20, but I have no idea if they are interchangeable.  I would bet not!

[Muppet]

24 minutes ago, Kirky said:

I'm thinking of doing the same.  Is the Phones out on the P16M enough to drive my IEMs or would I need to continue to use my P1?   I'd probably continue to used wired IEM for the time being.

I don't use the Phones out but I reckon it should be able to drive your wired IEMs. I don't use the P1 either - can that accept a stereo input as the benefit of stereo as discussed is huge?

[MichaelDean]

25 minutes ago, police squad said:

interesting mate, thanks. Can this be done with an Allen & Heath sq20 I wonder. If I change desk it will be to the SQ20

Looks like no. A quick Google suggests that "Ultranet" is a Behringer proprietary system.

 

[jimmyb625]

1 hour ago, police squad said:

interesting mate, thanks. Can this be done with an Allen & Heath sq20 I wonder. If I change desk it will be to the SQ20

Allen & Heath do have a similar system, albeit more expensive. Do you mean the CQ20? That doesn't have it as far as I can tell. The QU-SB does, although they're more expensive and (imho) will probably end up being phased out fairly soon

Edited February 22 by jimmyb625

[Kirky]

46 minutes ago, Muppet said:

I don't use the Phones out but I reckon it should be able to drive your wired IEMs. I don't use the P1 either - can that accept a stereo input as the benefit of stereo as discussed is huge?

Thanks.  I meant to say P2.

 

I'm currently 2 gigs in with a band that have everything running through the desk, and everyone using IEMs.  Everyone else is wireless and I'm using the ubiquitous P2 and KZ-10 set up.   My main frustration at the moment is getting the mix right, currently it's being left to the band leader.  I think my order of future investment is:

 

P16M  - this will give me better control over the mix, and (if I understand correctly) stereo.

 

Then better IEMs - probably moulded, which will give me better sound quality 

 

Then wireless - a clearer stage.   I might not get this far.

 

Does all that sound sensible?

[police squad]

9 minutes ago, jimmyb625 said:

Allen & Heath do have a similar system, albeit more expensive. Do you mean the CQ20? That doesn't have it as far as I can tell. The QU-SB does, although they're more expensive and (imho) will probably end up being phased out fairly soon

yes I meant CQ20. They're bound to come up with something

[Muzz]

12 minutes ago, Kirky said:

My main frustration at the moment is getting the mix right, currently it's being left to the band leader.

I'm gigging all the time now (8 gigs in March coming up) with inears/P2, but fortunately the BL's desk has individual Monitor mixes, otherwise I'd be miserable: my mix has a smidge of/guide vocal and guitar, plenty of kit (snare, kick, toms) and me, and no percussion whatsoever (it's an oddish lineup with singing guitarist, me, drummer and percussionist). Works a treat for me, but I'm sure the BL's mix wouldn't.

[EBS_freak]

6 hours ago, police squad said:

can you explain please?

Psst. Section 3.3

[police squad]

16 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Psst. Section 3.3

perfect thank you

[Muppet]

22 hours ago, Kirky said:

Thanks.  I meant to say P2.

 

I'm currently 2 gigs in with a band that have everything running through the desk, and everyone using IEMs.  Everyone else is wireless and I'm using the ubiquitous P2 and KZ-10 set up.   My main frustration at the moment is getting the mix right, currently it's being left to the band leader.  I think my order of future investment is:

 

P16M  - this will give me better control over the mix, and (if I understand correctly) stereo.

 

Then better IEMs - probably moulded, which will give me better sound quality 

 

Then wireless - a clearer stage.   I might not get this far.

 

Does all that sound sensible?

Perfectly sensible - that's exactly my set up. With the P16M I can mix on the fly withour resorting to a phone or tablet app or worrying about anyone else. I think with your curent setup you'd probably not need the P2, but it wouldn't do any harm to still use it.  

 

The only thing you'll need to be aware of is having a long enough CAT5 cable to go from the mixer to wherever you stand. I have a flat cable on a reel that does 15 metres or so. Oh and in the mixer you'll need to route each channel to a specified channel in the P16, then label the P16!

 

[Dubs]

Just spotted some talk on this thread about the Behringer P1/P2 IEM packs... I've just upgraded from the P1 to the mono Xvive U4 wireless system expecting the only advantage to be the fact it's wireless, but actually the clarity is a massive improvement as well, especially in the low end. This was something I wasn't expecting but is really noticable, such a difference to the mix when naturally a lot of my focus is on the bass. 

[dave_bass5]

3 minutes ago, Dubs said:

Just spotted some talk on this thread about the Behringer P1/P2 IEM packs... I've just upgraded from the P1 to the mono Xvive U4 wireless system expecting the only advantage to be the fact it's wireless, but actually the clarity is a massive improvement as well, especially in the low end. This was something I wasn't expecting but is really noticable, such a difference to the mix when naturally a lot of my focus is on the bass. 

It might be because the P1 is passive.
I’ve got a P1 and P2, and there seems to be quite a difference between the two sonically. 
 

[jimmyb625]

3 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

It might be because the P1 is passive.
I’ve got a P1 and P2, and there seems to be quite a difference between the two sonically. 
 

The P1 is active, it's the PM1 that's passive.