The IEM (in ear monitors) Bible thread

[Al Krow]

On 09/04/2024 at 16:22, Al Krow said:

Ah, just missed your suggestion @cetera, but thanks a bunch for digging that out and maybe someone else will benefit. When I was looking yesterday I kept getting "not available in your territory"!

Have just ordered on the link Michael kindly provided (for which many thanks). £54 delivered including 20% VAT. Definitely worth a punt, at that price, for the current flagship KZ I reckon?

 

KZ ZAR IEM ear pieces arrived today.

 

Maybe they just suit my ear shape, but they are a better fit and, although bulkier, they provide a much better seal which was immediately obvious. The very much reduced "leakage" from external sounds is also going to have the added benefit of providing better ear protection, which is more than worth the entry price of these for me.

 

I've just A/B'd with my Sennheiser IE300 which I found comparable to, if a little quieter than, my KZ ZS10s, and I can hear bass & backing tracks so much more clearly with this KZ ZAR pair.

 

Very happy with them - already feeling like they could be a contender for the best bit of gear I'm going to get in 2024!

 

Edited April 16 by Al Krow

[Woodinblack]

32 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Maybe they just suit my ear shape, but they are a better fit and, although bulkier, they provide a much better seal which was immediately obvious. The very much reduced "leakage" from external sounds is also going to have the added benefit of providing better ear protection, which is more than worth the entry price of these for me.

 

When you say bulkier, is that also heavier? I always hae the problem of one of my KZZ10s falling out, bad ear shape I guess, but it doesn't help that its heavy.

[Al Krow]

5 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

When you say bulkier, is that also heavier? I always hae the problem of one of my KZZ10s falling out, bad ear shape I guess, but it doesn't help that its heavy.

 

Like you, I had a problem with just one of my KZ ZS10s falling out which is a bit weird, but I don't think we're the only ones to have mentioned this! 

I think the ZARs must be a little heavier as they are bigger overall in size (I mislaid my ZS10s a short while back so I don't have them on hand to directly compare). Ear shape will definitely play a part, but the better seal for me on these I suspect also means a better overall fit and therefore less likely to come out than my ZS 10s. I'll find out on Sat night when I can put them through their paces with a live band.

[Al Krow]

Actually @Woodinblack - amusingly I've just managed to locate my mislaid ZS 10s (glad I did mislay them, as it turns out, haha).

Here's a pic of them side by side - the ZAR's (on the right of the pic) have a similar footprint but are deeper to allow for their better armatures. I've not got anything sensitive enough to measure their weights - but reasonable to assume they will be a little heavier.

 

 

I've spent a little bit of time A/B'ing with a Spotify track (the start of Maria by Blondie as it happens!). There's a level of additional detail coming through on the ZARs that isn't there on the ZS 10s - on the guitar, most certainly on the drums (which sound flatter on the ZS 10s) and a richer tone to Debbie H's vox. The ZS 10s are decent enough, but the ZARs are unquestionably a step up and will be my goto pair going forward.

Edited April 16 by Al Krow

[Woodinblack]

20 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I've spent a little bit of time A/B'ing with a Spotify track (the start of Maria by Blondie as it happens!). There's a level of additional detail coming through on the ZARs that isn't there on the ZS 10s - on the guitar, most certainly on the drums (which sound flatter on the ZS 10s) and a richer tone to Debbie H's vox. The ZS 10s are decent enough, but the ZARs are unquestionably a step up and will be my goto pair going forward.

 

Well, that is handy as I bought them on your recommendation

 

[Al Krow]

7 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Well, that is handy as I bought them on your recommendation

 

Haha nice one! Look forward to finding out whether your view of them vs the ZS 10s ties in with what I'm hearing 😊

 

Edited April 16 by Al Krow

[Chienmortbb]

I blame you two if I am wasting my money ZARs. Incidentally what shop did you buy them from?

Edited April 16 by Chienmortbb

[Al Krow]

20 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

I blame you two if I am wasting my money ZARs. Incidentally what shop did you buy them from?

Scroll back a page or so to the links provided on Ali Express by our esteemed colleagues - almost half the price they are on Amazon.

 

And seriously for £50, they were worth a punt. Just turns out to be one of the better punts I've taken this year, haha!

 

Edited April 16 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

@EBS_freak love it if you got a pair and gave them a comparison to some of the high end IEM ear pieces you've got? Fact is you know your way around this stuff better than most!

If they get 80%+ of the way there for 10% of the price, that's a ratio many of us starting on the IEM journey would likely accept as a very decent trade off.

Edited April 16 by Al Krow

[99ster]

Anyone got any experience of the Behringer UL 1000G2 system?  It looks very interesting - especially at that price (£269 retail).   Thanks!

 

 

[jimmyb625]

54 minutes ago, 99ster said:

Anyone got any experience of the Behringer UL 1000G2 system?  It looks very interesting - especially at that price (£269 retail).   Thanks!

 

 

It looks quite similar to the LD MEI1000, which isn't bad.

As with the LD unit, if you're going to use it in the channel 38 frequencies (channels 5-12), you'll need to buy a licence.

[police squad]

22 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

Haha nice one! Look forward to finding out whether your view of them vs the ZS 10s ties in with what I'm hearing 😊

 

I've just ordered a set too

[Al Krow]

9 minutes ago, police squad said:

I've just ordered a set too

 

Oh dear...I seem to have started something...gonna be in so much trouble if you guys are not hearing the upgrade benefit of the ZARs over the ZS 10s I'm finding - albeit from purely a home A/B and pre-gig! 😂 

[police squad]

Just now, Al Krow said:

 

Oh dear...I seem to have started something...gonna be in so much trouble if you guys are not hearing the upgrade benefit of the ZARs over the ZS 10s I'm finding - albeit from purely a home A/B and pre-gig! 😂 

like you say, less than 50 quid, worth a go

I quite like the ZS10 that I have but am happy to try some other flavour too.

Best thing I ever did was go IEM, I enjoy playing so much more

[EBS_freak]

Sine wave on kick drums follow up...

 

This is a pub gig that I did with the band last year which I recorded multitrack.

 

Here's an explanation what is happening with each file -

 

01-Drums (no sine) : This is the drum bus using just the mics on the drums. (Kick, 2 overheads, 1 up 1 down toms and of course the snare). You can hear a bit of bleed from the vocalist in the overheads but as the rest of the band is on silent stage setups, you'll hear the bleed is pretty minimal.

 

02-KickOnly : this is the kick drum mic soloed. Listen for the fundamental (you can hear some resonance in the drum which kinda gives you a clue to where it's at). The key thing for a single kick drum mic set up is that you have are picking up the click. If you don't know what I mean by that, see if you can pick up the "tick" which sounds like a metronome. You want to hear that so give your drum some presence in the room, otherwise it will all be mush. This is a taste thing. Not too much click or your band may start sounding a bit metal when it's not. (Audix D6 is the mic which sounds like this by default with next to minimal EQ)

 

03-SineOnly: I was hearing the fundamental around 54Hz going by the recording. What you are hearing here is the desks oscillator going (sine wave at 54Hz) with a side chained gate being triggered by the kick drum mic channel. So you can hear the gate is tracking pretty close.

 

04-KickWithSine: This is the Kick and Sine channels soloed - so you should hear a lot weightier kick. Listen to this and back to 02-KickOnly and the difference should be immediately apparent. So this is really giving your the low end thud but without the mush you would get if you started pushing the frequency on the kick channel.

 

05-Drums(with sine): The drum bus with the sine wave. You can hear the drums have a load more energy and the compressor on the drum bus is crunching quite nicely due to the extra gain in the lows. Listen to this, then listen back to 01-Drums (no sine). Hopefully the difference is more than a little apparent!

 

06-MixWithSine: Lets bring in the band to see what it sounds like. Not bad for the Dog and Duck on a Friday night...

 

07-MixWithoutSine: And just to show you the difference... lets lose the sine wave.

 

And thats how you pin punters to the back wall and give it the "pro gig" sound in the pub. (I know the hyped kick drum is not everybody's thing - but loads of people commented how we sounded so different to every other band which went in there...!)

 

EDIT - dont expect to hear a massive difference through laptop speakers (majority are HPFed anyway), so use decent monitors or headphones to hear whats going on in detail.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

...as I say, if your desk can't do this (or you haven't got the outboard), you can go the trigger route.

 

And apologies for that little slap run.  (I got carried away)

Edited April 17 by EBS_freak

[Al Krow]

@EBS_freak - excellent sine wave MkII post, thanks Russ!

[Phil Starr]

9 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Sine wave on kick drums follow up...

 

This is a pub gig that I did with the band last year which I recorded multitrack.

 

Here's an explanation what is happening with each file -

 

01-Drums (no sine) : This is the drum bus using just the mics on the drums. (Kick, 2 overheads, 1 up 1 down toms and of course the snare). You can hear a bit of bleed from the vocalist in the overheads but as the rest of the band is on silent stage setups, you'll hear the bleed is pretty minimal.

 

02-KickOnly : this is the kick drum mic soloed. Listen for the fundamental (you can hear some resonance in the drum which kinda gives you a clue to where it's at). The key thing for a single kick drum mic set up is that you have are picking up the click. If you don't know what I mean by that, see if you can pick up the "tick" which sounds like a metronome. You want to hear that so give your drum some presence in the room, otherwise it will all be mush. This is a taste thing. Not too much click or your band may start sounding a bit metal when it's not. (Audix D6 is the mic which sounds like this by default with next to minimal EQ)

 

03-SineOnly: I was hearing the fundamental around 54Hz going by the recording. What you are hearing here is the desks oscillator going (sine wave at 54Hz) with a side chained gate being triggered by the kick drum mic channel. So you can hear the gate is tracking pretty close.

 

04-KickWithSine: This is the Kick and Sine channels soloed - so you should hear a lot weightier kick. Listen to this and back to 02-KickOnly and the difference should be immediately apparent. So this is really giving your the low end thud but without the mush you would get if you started pushing the frequency on the kick channel.

 

05-Drums(with sine): The drum bus with the sine wave. You can hear the drums have a load more energy and the compressor on the drum bus is crunching quite nicely due to the extra gain in the lows. Listen to this, then listen back to 01-Drums (no sine). Hopefully the difference is more than a little apparent!

 

06-MixWithSine: Lets bring in the band to see what it sounds like. Not bad for the Dog and Duck on a Friday night...

 

07-MixWithoutSine: And just to show you the difference... lets lose the sine wave.

 

And thats how you pin punters to the back wall and give it the "pro gig" sound in the pub. (I know the hyped kick drum is not everybody's thing - but loads of people commented how we sounded so different to every other band which went in there...!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Russ this is really helpful, I haven't mixed seriously since the 1970's so this is a new technique for me, though I had noticed the kick on some bands is a bit 'one note' as well as suspiciously tight I'd put that down to a sample or even very hard compression, now I'll have to see if I can spot it, another obsession :). Fortunately I'm saved from most of this because my drummer has an E-kit and sends me the signal she wants the audience to hear. Takes her sound very seriously too. We've also used a dep who sets up his own mic's and uses a trigger for the kick. First time I saw his band I couldn't believe the kick sound he was getting. They were on the bill after us and just blew us off the stage. That kick was giving a lot to how they sounded and the audience response.

[EBS_freak]

It’s amazing how much extra energy a tight kick can give a band.

[JPJ]

2 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

It’s amazing how much extra energy a tight kick can give a band.

I’ve seen a few bands that could benefit from a tight kick in the ………😝

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, JPJ said:

I’ve seen a few bands that could benefit from a tight kick in the ………😝

Or even band members……😂

[Chienmortbb]

5 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

It’s amazing how much extra energy a tight kick can give a band.

I wonder how some live sound techs learns their trade. I went to a gig about three years ago. It was to see Glenn Hughes, former Trapeze and Deep Purple bassist/vocalist. Every time the kick drum activated, it obliterated the rest of the sound until the compression released and that seemed like seconds.I could just hear the lead guitar but the vocals and bass went west.  It is not the only time the kick has dominated at a gig although the first where it so totally destroyed the mix. Now not all sound techs are like this but a lot are. What do you think is going on? Is the bass/wool heavy sounds of Dance music just altering the perception of a mix?

[JPJ]

3 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

I wonder how some live sound techs learns their trade.

Don’t automatically blame the guy/girl on the desk. We had one local venue that doubled as a music venue and a nightclub. As a result the in-house rig was tuned and configured for the bottom end heavy dance music and travelling sound techs were not permitted to retune the rig. As a result, the louder the mix, the more dominant the bottom end. I was lucky (unlucky) enough to play there on more than one occasion and whilst the power of the bass was quite something, it was also so overpowering and as a result mushy. The venue became known for having a bad sound and only a few bands I saw there cracked it, generally by not pushing the master all the way to unity. 

[Acebassmusic]

53 minutes ago, JPJ said:

..... only a few bands I saw there cracked it, generally by not pushing the master all the way to unity infinity. 

 

Corrected that for ya 😉🤣🤣

[EBS_freak]

Am I led to believe that unveiling this kick drum secret has exposed a load of hatred for it?  

 

As they say, with great power comes great responsibility. It's about knowing when to restrain yourself...!

Edited April 18 by EBS_freak