The IEM (in ear monitors) Bible thread

[dave_bass5]

I’ve got the Thomann’s version of the MI 2.4 and also found i kept knocking the volume knob. I did have it just on my side but I’ve had to move it to the back. A pain at first but now it’s ok. 

[police squad]

17 hours ago, Jack said:

Thanks for the input! Does the engineer mode disable the volume control?

I have no idea!!

I literally just turned it on, worked out how to go mono or stereo (in my duo with backing tracks, I listen to the out front sound thru the headphone socket on the desk) and you have to 'lock' the frequency/channel. Otherwise its too easy to change it by mistake when clipping the reciver to your belt etc.

I've used it on a handful of gigs but did my back 6 weeks ago and haven't touched anything since

[lemmywinks]

Just got some cheap Spinfit CP100 tips for my KZ ZS10, on sale at £9.49 for two pairs delivered (large size) here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325357841077?

 

Much better fit than stock tips, instant seal and don't fall out or work loose. Although they're for a smaller 4mm (ZS10 are 5mm I think?) diameter IEMs they push on fine with a little bit of encouragement and feel very secure.

[Phil Starr]

On 21/04/2024 at 15:39, gorandelac said:

The thing for me with customs is really do you really get a better picture? How much better can it be? I mean, what can be better, sound, headroom, isolation?

What justify iem for 500 Euros and up?

 

I think we nearly all feel this. The price hike from no in-ears to moulded customs is just so huge for a covers band going out for £300 a night shared 5 ways. £500+ is a year's income from the band once you've paid for fuel and other incidental expenses and a lot to risk if it isn't quite right. On the other hand I've never regretted taking @EBS_freak advice. What to do?

 

So I'm going to take one for the team. I've been in touch with Snugs who make moulds largely for bikers and hunting shooting people. Very West Country They are quite near me and I'm going out there to get my ears scanned. They make custom moulded ear buds for a limited range of headphones but I've been talking to them about making customs for the KZ ZS10 pro's. Also possibly for my Sennheiser IE100's. The deal is that I have to leave the 'phones with them whilst they work on them. I have two ZS10's so that isn't a problem.

 

Crucially this costs £169.95 for a pair of custom buds so potentially giving me ZS10 based IEM's that seal reliably, and don't need pushing back in all the time, for just over £200 rather than the £500+ you'd pay for a fully custom IEM of unknown sound quality. I know Russ is going to tell me I'm potentially wasting even more money and will end up paying for full fat in-ears but I'm curious  and happy to take the hit. If it is noticeably better than I have now it might be an affordable move for a lot of people. At the moment I'm getting great sounds out of my ZS10 pro's at the beginning of the set but that deteriorates as the evening goes on and they start slipping loose so just playing the whole set with them sounding their best is well worth £200.

 

So the only question is.... Which earphone should I try? Are people going to shift to ZAR's or the latest iteration of the ZS10's. Once they've made one for me Snugs will offer them to anyone who wants them so it would make sense for them and me to start off with the most popular model. I'm happy to pay out the £50ish cost of buying yet another iteration of the ZS10.

Edited June 11 by Phil Starr

[jimmyb625]

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

 

I think we nearly all feel this. The price hike from no in-ears to moulded customs is just so huge for a covers band going out for £300 a night shared 5 ways. £500+ is a year's income from the band once you've paid for fuel and other incidental expenses and a lot to risk if it isn't quite right. On the other hand I've never regretted taking @EBS_freak advice. What to do?

 

So I'm going to take one for the team. I've been in touch with Snugs who make moulds largely for bikers and hunting shooting people. Very West Country They are quite near me and I'm going out there to get my ears scanned. They make custom moulded ear buds for a limited range of headphones but I've been talking to them about making customs for the KZ ZS10 pro's. Also possibly for my Sennheiser IE100's. The deal is that I have to leave the 'phones with them whilst they work on them. I have two ZS10's so that isn't a problem.

 

Crucially this costs £169.95 for a pair of custom buds so potentially giving me ZS10 based IEM's that seal reliably, and don't need pushing back in all the time, for just over £200 rather than the £500+ you'd pay for a fully custom IEM of unknown sound quality. I know Russ is going to tell me I'm potentially wasting even more money and will end up paying for full fat in-ears but I'm curious  and happy to take the hit. If it is noticeably better than I have now it might be an affordable move for a lot of people. At the moment I'm getting great sounds out of my ZS10 pro's at the beginning of the set but that deteriorates as the evening goes on and they start slipping loose so just playing the whole set with them sounding their best is well worth £200.

 

So the only question is.... Which earphone should I try? Are people going to shift to ZAR's or the latest iteration of the ZS10's. Once they've made one for me Snugs will offer them to anyone who wants them so it would make sense for them and me to start off with the most popular model. I'm happy to pay out the £50ish cost of buying yet another iteration of the ZS10.

Have you tried after-market foam tips on them Phil? I tried some Comply isolation plus tx-500 (seems an overly long name) and found they were pretty good with my zs10's.

That said, I'd be interested to hear how you get along with custom moulds. I was half-considering going down that route, however given the current state of the band, I'm not sure it's a worthwhile investment.

[EBS_freak]

8 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

 

I think we nearly all feel this. The price hike from no in-ears to moulded customs is just so huge for a covers band going out for £300 a night shared 5 ways. £500+ is a year's income from the band once you've paid for fuel and other incidental expenses and a lot to risk if it isn't quite right. On the other hand I've never regretted taking @EBS_freak advice. What to do?

 

So I'm going to take one for the team. I've been in touch with Snugs who make moulds largely for bikers and hunting shooting people. Very West Country They are quite near me and I'm going out there to get my ears scanned. They make custom moulded ear buds for a limited range of headphones but I've been talking to them about making customs for the KZ ZS10 pro's. Also possibly for my Sennheiser IE100's. The deal is that I have to leave the 'phones with them whilst they work on them. I have two ZS10's so that isn't a problem.

 

I know Russ is going to tell me I'm potentially wasting even more money and will end up paying for full fat in-ears but I'm curious  and happy to take the hit.

 

I 100% get it. It is a leap of faith. And it's loads of money for something which effectively looks like something you get free with your phone. I was exactly in the same position. Everybody tip toes in - and even worse - historically, there was no affordable multi-driver universal IEM to do that with. You will save the money if you go full in day 1... but there's that confidence thing... and yes, it's a lot of cash as soon as you commit to the custom IEM route.

 

Remember this when you get to the inevitable though  "If you ask any musician sporting custom IEMs whether they would ever give them up, listen to the answer. It will be consistent."

 

Custom tips is a good half way house... but I can already tell you the bit you will be annoyed with. The fit will will be great - but when you take the IEMs out of your ear, the fit on the custom tip will be so good, it will stay in your ear when the IEM comes out. And the other element of course, is that they won't lie as flat as they could... so get ready to potentially channel your inner Shrek.

 

But genuinely - I am looking forward to hearing about your updates!

[EBS_freak]

Oh and @Phil Starr - it's nice to hear somebody appreciates my advice. Its all based on real world experience and my own journeys - and I genuinely want to get people to a better place as quickly (and as cheap) as possible so they can enjoy what I have enjoyed.  

[Al Krow]

9 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

 

I think we nearly all feel this. The price hike from no in-ears to moulded customs is just so huge for a covers band going out for £300 a night shared 5 ways. £500+ is a year's income from the band once you've paid for fuel and other incidental expenses and a lot to risk if it isn't quite right. On the other hand I've never regretted taking @EBS_freak advice. What to do?

 

So I'm going to take one for the team. I've been in touch with Snugs who make moulds largely for bikers and hunting shooting people. Very West Country They are quite near me and I'm going out there to get my ears scanned. They make custom moulded ear buds for a limited range of headphones but I've been talking to them about making customs for the KZ ZS10 pro's. Also possibly for my Sennheiser IE100's. The deal is that I have to leave the 'phones with them whilst they work on them. I have two ZS10's so that isn't a problem.

 

Crucially this costs £169.95 for a pair of custom buds so potentially giving me ZS10 based IEM's that seal reliably, and don't need pushing back in all the time, for just over £200 rather than the £500+ you'd pay for a fully custom IEM of unknown sound quality. I know Russ is going to tell me I'm potentially wasting even more money and will end up paying for full fat in-ears but I'm curious  and happy to take the hit. If it is noticeably better than I have now it might be an affordable move for a lot of people. At the moment I'm getting great sounds out of my ZS10 pro's at the beginning of the set but that deteriorates as the evening goes on and they start slipping loose so just playing the whole set with them sounding their best is well worth £200.

 

So the only question is.... Which earphone should I try? Are people going to shift to ZAR's or the latest iteration of the ZS10's. Once they've made one for me Snugs will offer them to anyone who wants them so it would make sense for them and me to start off with the most popular model. I'm happy to pay out the £50ish cost of buying yet another iteration of the ZS10.

 

Fantastic initiative Phil! The ZARs are a definite step up from the ZS10s and not a very good price if you get them from Ali Express.

 

Put it like this, I was starting to question the benefits of IEMs in terms of gigging experience vs using backline after using the ZS10s for over a year. No longer feeling that way now I have the ZARs.

[gazhowe]

12 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

 

I 100% get it. It is a leap of faith. And it's loads of money for something which effectively looks like something you get free with your phone. I was exactly in the same position. Everybody tip toes in - and even worse - historically, there was no affordable multi-driver universal IEM to do that with. You will save the money if you go full in day 1... but there's that confidence thing... and yes, it's a lot of cash as soon as you commit to the custom IEM route.

I've gone full in (customs, stereo wireless & personal iem mixer) after reading all of the advice on this thread. Yes it's expensive, but after wasting lots of money upgrading basses and amps over the years I figure it will avoid costing time and money doing the same with iem's. There's still a learning curve but the advice on this thread will help shorten that and I've got no regrets so far. 

Edited June 12 by gazhowe

[EBS_freak]

33 minutes ago, gazhowe said:

I've gone full in (customs, stereo wireless & personal iem mixer) after reading all of the advice on this thread. Yes, it's expensive but after wasting lots of money upgrading basses and amps over the years I figure it will avoid costing time and money doing the same with iem's. There's still a learning curve but the advice on this thread will help shorten that and I've got no regrets so far. 

Well done that man!

[Phil Starr]

11 hours ago, jimmyb625 said:

Have you tried after-market foam tips on them Phil? I tried some Comply isolation plus tx-500 (seems an overly long name) and found they were pretty good with my zs10's.

That said, I'd be interested to hear how you get along with custom moulds. I was half-considering going down that route, however given the current state of the band, I'm not sure it's a worthwhile investment.

I've pretty much tried all the tips in all the sizes with all the main culprit headphones. I've a box at home with maybe 40 pairs of tips that I try with each new in ears. In the end I used some triple flange tips I pulled off some earplugs and thay worked really well for me with the original ZS10's I then bought a box of mixed size triple flange and the small ones fit ted well and still do with the pro's. They go right into my ear canal up to the first bend and sit fairly tight, so much so that I've been to the local small injuries unit for them to pull them out when they get stuck. I now carry tweezers with me to gigs

[police squad]

14 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Oh and @Phil Starr - it's nice to hear somebody appreciates my advice. Its all based on real world experience and my own journeys - and I genuinely want to get people to a better place as quickly (and as cheap) as possible so they can enjoy what I have enjoyed.  

you're advice has been excellent. I am still with the first set of ks10 but I have now got the ZARS to try. I get a really great seel with comply tips.

I also bought the MIpro 58 wireless based on your advice and it really rocks.

 

Would I go back to not using IEM, as you say, not on your nelly.

It has been an absolute game changer for me. Everything and I mean EVERYTHING sounds better. I sing better, I play better, therefore the audience get a better performance. I dont bash 7 bells out of my bass to hear it above all the other racket and I love my bass sound thru my IEMs, tight, fat...epic

[Jack]

After doing all the research and telling myself I can justify the cost I have bought a pair of Shure SE215s and a Sennheiser EW G4 in the free band. However, before I unbox it all for the gig this weekend I'm having second thoughts about the fact that maybe I should have gone digital instead? People seem vehemently entrenched online, what's the thoughts here? I guess it's compander vs latency really?

 

I chose analogue for two reasons. Firstly, there's already some 8ms+ cumulative latency in my signal path. Shure wireless (4ms) HX Stomp (2ms) and Behringer XR18 (2ms). I think that the extra 2-3ms or more might take me over into it being noticeable? Also, why can't we invent a standard digital interconnect? EVERY SINGLE THING in my bass signal chain, even up to the speakers, does it's own discreet ADDA. I don't have anything analogue after it leaves the pickups. The other reason was the fact that our digital space is pretty full. I've got the router, a tablet. up to 3 phones, my shure wireless, a line 6 guitar wireless, a cheap Amazon bug-style wireless, and 2 xvive IEM wirelesses all spread out over 2.4 and 5.8. The extra just seemed like I'm asking for trouble.

 

Those who have the Senn G4 (and I've seen you in this thread!) are you happy with it still? Would you go digital if you were buying today? How does it sound at gig volume? (Whatever that means for an IEM). It sounds ok at home...

 

 

Gahhhhhh, this is hard. So much easier thanks to this thread though.

[police squad]

1 hour ago, Jack said:

After doing all the research and telling myself I can justify the cost I have bought a pair of Shure SE215s and a Sennheiser EW G4 in the free band. However, before I unbox it all for the gig this weekend I'm having second thoughts about the fact that maybe I should have gone digital instead? People seem vehemently entrenched online, what's the thoughts here? I guess it's compander vs latency really?

 

I chose analogue for two reasons. Firstly, there's already some 8ms+ cumulative latency in my signal path. Shure wireless (4ms) HX Stomp (2ms) and Behringer XR18 (2ms). I think that the extra 2-3ms or more might take me over into it being noticeable? Also, why can't we invent a standard digital interconnect? EVERY SINGLE THING in my bass signal chain, even up to the speakers, does it's own discreet ADDA. I don't have anything analogue after it leaves the pickups. The other reason was the fact that our digital space is pretty full. I've got the router, a tablet. up to 3 phones, my shure wireless, a line 6 guitar wireless, a cheap Amazon bug-style wireless, and 2 xvive IEM wirelesses all spread out over 2.4 and 5.8. The extra just seemed like I'm asking for trouble.

 

Those who have the Senn G4 (and I've seen you in this thread!) are you happy with it still? Would you go digital if you were buying today? How does it sound at gig volume? (Whatever that means for an IEM). It sounds ok at home...

 

 

Gahhhhhh, this is hard. So much easier thanks to this thread though.

I use the sennheiser EW G4 mic system and it's awesome

Your IEMs will sound excellent thru it

[Jack]

21 minutes ago, police squad said:

I use the sennheiser EW G4 mic system and it's awesome

Your IEMs will sound excellent thru it

Well that's an interesting comment because don't you use the MIPRO MI58 for your IEMS? The Mipro and the G4 were my top two contenders.

[police squad]

1 hour ago, Jack said:

Well that's an interesting comment because don't you use the MIPRO MI58 for your IEMS? The Mipro and the G4 were my top two contenders.

yes I do, the MI pro was much cheaper than the senn. I was all set to buy the Senn system but have taken a leap of faith.

I do about 50 gigs a year, all mainly pubs and so far the MI Pro has been faultless. But I've used it only a handful of times as I slipped a disc a couple of months ago and cant gig atm.

The MI pro was about 400 quid cheaper and someone needed to try it. The audio quality is superb

I'm 8 gigs down so far, if you wait another 6 months I'll have more feedback on it

[Jack]

24 minutes ago, police squad said:

yes I do, the MI pro was much cheaper than the senn. I was all set to buy the Senn system but have taken a leap of faith.

I do about 50 gigs a year, all mainly pubs and so far the MI Pro has been faultless. But I've used it only a handful of times as I slipped a disc a couple of months ago and cant gig atm.

The MI pro was about 400 quid cheaper and someone needed to try it. The audio quality is superb

I'm 8 gigs down so far, if you wait another 6 months I'll have more feedback on it

That's reassuring. Thanks.

 

Yes, I'm painfully aware of the price of the Sennheiser. Y'all are enablers.

[Jack]

On 14/06/2024 at 14:46, Jack said:

Y'all are enablers.

Indeed. 

 

 

Last weekend was my unofficial first gig with the iems, I'd kept the box and all the little plastic screen protectors, just in case. Over the week though I decided I was committed and got everything sorted. I hate fiddly setup stuff so I put the iem transmitter in a rack with a power strip and a 10m xlr loom. Half the connections to plug in and out, better protection, more power sockets on stage and a nifty light. Had my first gig with it on Saturday. 

 

I'm a little worried about the volume though, with my deafness in one ear I've got the stereo balanced panned to my deaf side, and I'm concerned that I'm hitting my deafer ear with too much volume. More experiments to follow, although I'm loving the clarity and the freedom to move more on stage.

 

Sorry for the bad in situ photo, the drummer's ego light blew out the shot. 

 

 

On 14/06/2024 at 14:46, Jack said:

Don't know why this is here and can't be deleted. Move along. 

 

 

Edited June 23 by Jack

[jimmyb625]

2 hours ago, Jack said:

Indeed. 

 

 

Last weekend was my unofficial first gig with the iems, I'd kept the box and all the little plastic screen protectors, just in case. Over the week though I decided I was committed and got everything sorted. I hate fiddly setup stuff so I put the iem transmitter in a rack with a power strip and a 10m xlr loom. Half the connections to plug in and out, better protection, more power sockets on stage and a nifty light. Had my first gig with it on Saturday. 

 

I'm a little worried about the volume though, with my deafness in one ear I've got the stereo balanced panned to my deaf side, and I'm concerned that I'm hitting my deafer ear with too much volume. More experiments to follow, although I'm loving the clarity and the freedom to move more on stage.

 

Sorry for the bad in situ photo, the drummer's ego light blew out the shot. 

 

 

 

 

That's a neat little rig. Have you thought about going stereo? (Although I know a lot of places haven't got the facility to give you a stereo mix)

 

I can't help with how the panning might impact of your deaf side, but maybe have more on your "good" side and reduce the volume a bit?

[WalMan]

Having got used to running IEM's I now find that I miss them when I don't use them.

 

Did a dep last week in a smallish room but I was right on top of the bass amp and the sound where I was was not great. Spent the whole evening wishing I'd just taken an aux from their xAir and run a quick mix.

 

Saturday nights gig with my main band was again a smallish room and I thought "it'll be OK I won't bother it's too much faff". I was stuck in a corner with the guitars the other side of the kit and PA a way in front of me. Got to the break and set up a long cable to my side of the stage to go into the Behringer P2. didn't bother setting up the ambient mic and ran one plug in and the other out. Even like that things were so much better!! I could hear everything and BV's were less of a struggle

[JapanAxe]

Yes, the joy of being able to hear everything, and at a reasonable volume, is not to be underestimated!

[Al Krow]

Speaking about hearing everything, just wondering if I've been missing a trick on the ambient microphone side of things? 

 

I've spotted that some of the KZ range now come with a microphone on the cables (pic below) but I'm assuming that these only work when the switch is pressed. So not capable of being an "always on" feature, but still potentially useful for having a conversation with a band/audience member without needing to take your earbuds out?

 

Don't know if anyone else has gone down this route or spotted something similar / better?

[dave_bass5]

32 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Speaking about hearing everything, just wondering if I've been missing a trick on the ambient microphone side of things? 

 

I've spotted that some of the KZ range now come with a microphone on the cables (pic below) but I'm assuming that these only work when the switch is pressed. So not capable of being an "always on" feature, but still potentially useful for having a conversation with a band/audience member without needing to take your earbuds out?

 

Don't know if anyone else has gone down this route or spotted something similar / better?

Wouldn’t you need to run these to an input as well? 
These are meant for phones which have a Bi directional port i believe. I guess you could split the cable. 

[Woodinblack]

Yes, you would need a TRRS socket with a microphone on it, which virtually no IEM system will have

[Al Krow]

Cheers guys, you've put my mind at rest for not spending an extra £5 on getting the "with mic" cables!

 

6 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Yes, you would need a TRRS socket with a microphone on it, which virtually no IEM system will have

 

Just thinking aloud, this could be a really neat feature if any IEM system were to offer it?

 

Edited June 24 by Al Krow