The IEM (in ear monitors) Bible thread

[JPJ]

52 minutes ago, JapanAxe said:

 

Can anyone save me some time and head-scratching and point me in the direction of how to apply EQ to an aux feed on Mackie Master Fader and/or Mixing Station (for Behringer XR18)? Does it involve assigning an FX block and calling up an EQ?

For the XR18 I use the Behringer app on Windows and I’m a bit of a novice with Mixing Station but I’ve found that if you hit Mix/FX Send button on the main display, then tap on the name of the bus you want to EQ, you can access the PEQ for that bus. Hope this helps?

Edited September 16 by JPJ

[JapanAxe]

3 minutes ago, JPJ said:

For the XR18 I use the Behringer app on Windows and I’m a bit of a novice with Mixing Station but I’ve found that if you hit Mix/FX Send button on the main display, then tap just below the mute button on the bus you want to EQ, you can access the PEQ for that bus. Hope this helps?

Thanks, that's actually jogged my memory re Mixing Station - I'll check it out when I'm next in the vicinity of my XR18 and my iPad.

[Orbs]

Hi everyone, advice needed please.

 

I bought a pair of Ultimate Ears UE6 IEM's (based on the recommendation of EBS freak after reading this forum, many thanks for this), and I've noticed that the supplied cable is now becoming frayed and will likely need to be replaced soon. UE are asking £45 for a new one. I was just wondering if anybody else has purchased any aftermarket replacements and if so which one's and are they worth it, or should I just pull the trigger and buy the UE one's ?

 

Thanks for any suggestions in advance.

 

[JapanAxe]

On 13/09/2024 at 15:36, JPJ said:

Are you taking your in-ear feed from the desk? Is it digital? If so, play with the eq on your IEM feed (aux) channel. As I’ve learned, EQ’ing IEM’s is as important as EQ’ing channels or the overall FOH mix. 

I think I've found what I need in Master Fader. I have been using my phone for this on stage but it's much easier with my iPad, so that will be coming on the next direct-to-PA gig.

[WalMan]

A couple of things after the most recent gig 

 

1) I need to replace the xVive system with something better! It was cutting in and out in the second set and siting the transmitter so that it doesn’t swamp either the desk router or my iPad so one or other doesn’t work.

 

2) our sound guy has a new (last years model) Allen & Heath CQ stagebox/mixer, and the difference between that and the old Behringer XR is just night and day. The mix I was getting from the A&H was so much more open that the XR which I was never entirely happy with the mix I was achieving.

[warwickhunt]

6 hours ago, WalMan said:

1) I need to replace the xVive system with something better! It was cutting in and out in the second set and siting the transmitter so that it doesn’t swamp either the desk router or my iPad so one or other doesn’t work.

 

2) our sound guy has a new (last years model) Allen & Heath CQ stagebox/mixer, and the difference between that and the old Behringer XR is just night and day. The mix I was getting from the A&H was so much more open that the XR which I was never entirely happy with the mix I was achieving.

 

1.  I know there are a lot of xVive owners/users/fans but I found the cheap as chips Lekato 5kHz systems (IE and guitar T*/R*) to be better, so I assume it is down to frequency rather than component cost.  

2.  I've found our CQ12 to be a revelation for quality AND ease of use in comparison to a couple of other systems I've used/been put through.  Again not saying it is the best ever by any stretch but I'd not trade up... at this point! 

 

[Chienmortbb]

39 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

Again not saying it is the best ever by any stretch but I'd not trade up... at this point! 

With the CQ being the most recent A&H digital mixer, many A&H Qu and SQ users are hoping for some of the CQ technology to be introduced into the MK2 versions of those consoles.

[gazhowe]

Is anyone else using a Sennheiser XSW IEM wireless system? If so, have you experienced any problems with occasional white noise/static interference when playing and how did you manage to avoid it?
 

I do a frequency check on the receiver to make sure it is not picking up anything else before playing and there is clear line of sight between receiver and transmitter which is normally about 2-3 metres away. I'm not getting signal dropouts but the interference is unpleasant and distracting. Last weekend was worse than previously so I'm hoping someone can provide advice on what to do. Any suggestions welcome. 🙏 

[JapanAxe]

1 hour ago, gazhowe said:

Is anyone else using a Sennheiser XSW IEM wireless system? If so, have you experienced any problems with occasional white noise/static interference when playing and how did you manage to avoid it?
 

I do a frequency check on the receiver to make sure it is not picking up anything else before playing and there is clear line of sight between receiver and transmitter which is normally about 2-3 metres away. I'm not getting signal dropouts but the interference is unpleasant and distracting. Last weekend was worse than previously so I'm hoping someone can provide advice on what to do. Any suggestions welcome. 🙏 

That's what I use, under similar conditions, and yes I get that too sometimes. Then again so do other people in the same band on completely different frequency ranges. I haven't found a solution other than going wired!

[gazhowe]

20 minutes ago, JapanAxe said:

That's what I use, under similar conditions, and yes I get that too sometimes. Then again so do other people in the same band on completely different frequency ranges. I haven't found a solution other than going wired!

Our guitarist uses the same system and has the same experience. 
I've been wireless for my bass since the old Nady systems were around, so going wired for my IEM's would defeat the purpose of that.
I'd be interested to see if Sennheiser release an IEM product for their EW-D series that might be better. The analog G4 and Shure psm900 systems are a bit too expensive to take a punt on for the amount of gigs I do. 

[Al Krow]

21 minutes ago, gazhowe said:

Our guitarist uses the same system and has the same experience. 
I've been wireless for my bass since the old Nady systems were around, so going wired for my IEM's would defeat the purpose of that.
I'd be interested to see if Sennheiser release an IEM product for their EW-D series that might be better. The analog G4 and Shure psm900 systems are a bit too expensive to take a punt on for the amount of gigs I do. 

 

Thanks for sharing this about your wireless, very useful feedback. I'd be really be interested to see how the Sennheiser wireless A/Bs vs the Xvive U4s we've got and whether they are any better or worse on this, but suspect not going to be straightforward to arrange that, unless they're a product that might be on your shortlist to check out!

[gazhowe]

5 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

Thanks for sharing this about your wireless, very useful feedback. I'd be really be interested to see how the Sennheiser wireless A/Bs vs the Xvive U4s we've got and whether they are any better or worse on this, but suspect not going to be straightforward to arrange that, unless they're a product that might be on your shortlist to check out!

Our guitarist used an Xvive U4s before switching to the Sennheiser to get a stereo iem feed, and because he was experiencing frequent momentary drop outs with the Xvive. 

Edited Saturday at 11:55 by gazhowe

[JapanAxe]

1 hour ago, gazhowe said:

Our guitarist uses the same system and has the same experience. 
I've been wireless for my bass since the old Nady systems were around, so going wired for my IEM's would defeat the purpose of that.
I'd be interested to see if Sennheiser release an IEM product for their EW-D series that might be better. The analog G4 and Shure psm900 systems are a bit too expensive to take a punt on for the amount of gigs I do. 

Yes, going wired (via Behringer P2) is the worst case scenario where wireless simply doesn’t work - never had to do this since I got the XSW.

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, gazhowe said:

Our guitarist used an Xvive U4s before switching to the Sennheiser to get a stereo iem feed, and because he was experiencing frequent momentary drop outs with the Xvive. 

 

Yes, the Xvives (like quite a lot of wireless IEMs) are in the 2.4 GHz spectrum, but we've not had any noticeable drop outs with mine since switching to 5.8 Ghz for my bass wireless bugs (I was actually getting drop outs on bass rather than IEMs as it happens).

 

I can appreciate that he might enjoy stereo on guitar and the Xvives are definitely mono, in terms of gigging experience. I think of all musicians, guitarists seem to hate going through FoH and IEMs vs getting their full uncluttered sound from their stage amps, more than the rest of the band in my experience - dunno if that's a common experience?

 

As we're not panning our desk mix and FoH is effectively mono for the audience (which would therefore seem to be what we would want to also be hearing?), I've often wondered what the benefit of going stereo for us bass players is, but I'm aware that quite a few BC'ers swear by it! I guess I'd need to try it at some point, although not with my mono Xvives!

 

 

Edited Saturday at 13:25 by Al Krow

[MichaelDean]

32 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

Yes, the Xvives (like quite a lot of wireless IEMs) are in the 2.4 GHz spectrum, but we've not had any noticeable drop outs with mine since switching to 5.8 Ghz for my bass wireless bugs (I was actually getting drop outs on bass rather than IEMs as it happens).

 

I can appreciate that he might enjoy stereo on guitar and the Xvives are definitely mono, in terms of gigging experience. I think of all musicians, guitarists seem to hate going through FoH and IEMs vs getting their full uncluttered sound from their stage amps, more than the rest of the band in my experience - dunno if that's a common experience?

 

As we're not panning our desk mix and FoH is effectively mono for the audience (which would therefore seem to be what we would want to also be hearing?), I've often wondered what the benefit of going stereo for us bass players is, but I'm aware that quite a few BC'ers swear by it! I guess I'd need to try it at some point, although not with my mono Xvives!

 

 

Stereo is great for separation of instruments. You can have stuff panned around to hear things more clearly. I used to have kick, vocals and bass in the middle, snare off centre, guitar on one side, cello on the other and keys and overheads spread out. It really gives you a bit more room to hear things properly. The overheads were great for the crowd and stage ambience. 

[Al Krow]

14 minutes ago, MichaelDean said:

Stereo is great for separation of instruments. You can have stuff panned around to hear things more clearly. I used to have kick, vocals and bass in the middle, snare off centre, guitar on one side, cello on the other and keys and overheads spread out. It really gives you a bit more room to hear things properly. The overheads were great for the crowd and stage ambience. 

 

Sounds good! Were you panning just for the monitors i.e. FoH was unpanned / fully mixed? I guess you'd need a fairly sophisticated digital desk to deliver that?

[MichaelDean]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

Sounds good! Were you panning just for the monitors i.e. FoH was unpanned / fully mixed? I guess you'd need a fairly sophisticated digital desk to deliver that?

It was just for us. We were an originals band, the venue's sound guy took care of FOH. 

 

I forgot about the click, but the guitarist was looping live, so we had the click in our ears too. We then had sends to go to FOH. It was running into a Focusrite soundcard, which then lets you sum outputs as stereo and do individual mixes. It was pretty nifty. Easier to run than an analogue desk once we got it sorted out. Levels were saved, so it was just a small amount of tweaking after setting up. 

[Al Krow]

11 minutes ago, MichaelDean said:

It was just for us. We were an originals band, the venue's sound guy took care of FOH. 

 

I forgot about the click, but the guitarist was looping live, so we had the click in our ears too. We then had sends to go to FOH. It was running into a Focusrite soundcard, which then lets you sum outputs as stereo and do individual mixes. It was pretty nifty. Easier to run than an analogue desk once we got it sorted out. Levels were saved, so it was just a small amount of tweaking after setting up. 

 

Gotcha, thanks!

 

Be also interesting to hear what folk are doing in terms of stereo IEMs if, like us, they don't have a sound engineer looking after the FoH set up?

[Chienmortbb]

Stereo IEMs? I can’t hear the band in stereo with back line and neither can the audience. Surely if the mix is clear and balanced, mono should be more than adequate? 
 

In my own case, I have 5 players and 6 Aux busses. To go stereo as well as as going wireless, and do it properly £4 grand approx? That is about what we wi earn this year in total. 

[gazhowe]

6 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

Gotcha, thanks!

 

Be also interesting to hear what folk are doing in terms of stereo IEMs if, like us, they don't have a sound engineer looking after the FoH set up?

I stand out front during the sound check to listen without my IEM's in and we adjust FoH sound accordingly. It doesn't get changed unless someone alerts us to an issue or we become aware ourselves. The key is staying disciplined and not tweaking FoH settings mid set. 

Edited Saturday at 14:43 by gazhowe

[Jack]

I'm running stereo IEMs but only really because I have some hearing damage in one ear (no, not from volume) and need some corrective eq in one ear only. Since I'm stereo anyway I have the toms, overheads (when used), backing vocals and the two guitars panned a little. It's kind of nice but I have not found it to be the game changer that some people make it out to be. The two caveats are that I have never used mono IEMs, and that my one-eared-hearing-damage might negate some of the stereo effects for me.

[Al Krow]

37 minutes ago, Jack said:

I'm running stereo IEMs but only really because I have some hearing damage in one ear (no, not from volume) and need some corrective eq in one ear only. Since I'm stereo anyway I have the toms, overheads (when used), backing vocals and the two guitars panned a little. It's kind of nice but I have not found it to be the game changer that some people make it out to be. The two caveats are that I have never used mono IEMs, and that my one-eared-hearing-damage might negate some of the stereo effects for me.

 

43 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Stereo IEMs? I can’t hear the band in stereo with back line and neither can the audience. Surely if the mix is clear and balanced, mono should be more than adequate? 
In my own case, I have 5 players and 6 Aux busses. To go stereo as well as as going wireless, and do it properly £4 grand approx? That is about what we wi earn this year in total. 

 

Thanks @Jack and @Chienmortbb. That's kinda been my sense from other comments from fellow bassplayers who are looking after the sound i.e. stereo IEMs are a nice to have, but not necessarily worth the extra effort?

 

42 minutes ago, gazhowe said:

I stand out front during the sound check to listen without my IEM's in and we adjust FoH sound accordingly. It doesn't get changed unless someone alerts us to an issue or we become aware ourselves. The key is staying disciplined and not tweaking FoH settings mid set. 

 

That's pretty much what we do, also.

 

I'm assuming that FoH won't usually be panned i.e. the panning is done for the benefit of the band to give them more instrument separation as @MichaelDean was saying. So to be able to do that just for the IEM monitor outs is going need to a pretty sophisticated desk, if you don't have a sound engineer separately looking after FoH?

 

Am I correct that stereo IEMs can also end up taking up a lot of the monitor outs if the latter are mono and not stereo - which I think is the more common set up? In which case, again getting back to having quite a capable desk?

Edited Saturday at 15:26 by Al Krow

[gazhowe]

10 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

 

Thanks @Jack and @Chienmortbb. That's kinda been my sense from other comments from fellow bassplayers who are looking after the sound i.e. stereo IEMs are a nice to have, but not necessarily worth the extra effort?

 

 

That's pretty much what we do, also.

 

I'm assuming that FoH won't usually be panned i.e. the panning is done for the benefit of the band to give them more instrument separation as @MichaelDean was saying. So to be able to do that just for the IEM monitor outs is going need to a pretty sophisticated desk, if you don't have a sound engineer separately looking after FoH?

 

Am I correct that stereo IEMs can also end up taking up a lot of the monitor outs if the latter are mono and not stereo - which I think is the more common set up? In which case, again getting back to having quite a capable desk?

Our FoH is mono and not panned. 
 

Stereo IEM's will usually require 2 Aux Out channels per IEM mix unless you send the signal via an Ethernet cable.

 

Our Presonus desk has 6 Aux Out channels. Two are used to give the drummer a stereo IEM mix and one to give the singer a mono floor monitor feed. 
We use a Cat5 Ethernet cable from a separate out from the desk to a Presonus Earmix mini mixer for the guitarist.  We then run another Ethernet cable from his Earmix to mine. Both Earmix's get the same stereo feed from the desk but we can then set volume and eq separately on each Earmix and output a different stereo mix to our IEM's from these. 

[dave_bass5]

3 hours ago, MichaelDean said:

Stereo is great for separation of instruments. You can have stuff panned around to hear things more clearly. I used to have kick, vocals and bass in the middle, snare off centre, guitar on one side, cello on the other and keys and overheads spread out. It really gives you a bit more room to hear things properly. The overheads were great for the crowd and stage ambience. 

Although as a keyboard player i need stereo, the benefit of hearing a stereo mix of everything just makes me smile. I stand at the back so have to use IEM’s, but having guitars panned left and right (not hard panned, but almost) along with the BV’s, drums kit spread across the mix really makes a difference to how i gel with the band, and i guess i play better because i get more in to it. This holds true when im playing with my other band on bass. Bass in the centre of course.

I know this doesnt reflect where the instruments are positioned on stage, but in this situation im playing to the IEM mix, not the on stage sound. 

I have read a few times, but cant confirm if it’s true, that some singers find it  better to have their voice off centre in thier IEM. This makes sense to me, but i don’t doing so never tried it.

[Jack]

6 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

 

Thanks @Jack and @Chienmortbb. That's kinda been my sense from other comments from fellow bassplayers who are looking after the sound i.e. stereo IEMs are a nice to have, but not necessarily worth the extra effort?

 

 

That's pretty much what we do, also.

 

I'm assuming that FoH won't usually be panned i.e. the panning is done for the benefit of the band to give them more instrument separation as @MichaelDean was saying. So to be able to do that just for the IEM monitor outs is going need to a pretty sophisticated desk, if you don't have a sound engineer separately looking after FoH?

 

Am I correct that stereo IEMs can also end up taking up a lot of the monitor outs if the latter are mono and not stereo - which I think is the more common set up? In which case, again getting back to having quite a capable desk?

The only thing I pan in foh are our two guitars and even they are just barely. Just to get a little separation really as they're both quite similar tones. I try not to decimate their sounds with too much EQ, but there's a mid cut in different places on each guitar and a slight pan just so they're don't fight quite so much. 

 

To your second point, we use a Behringer xr18 with six aux outs. Three are mono for the two guitars and drummer iems, one is for a very seldom used stage wedge or front fill, and the last two are in a stereo pair for my iems. There's a stereo EQ inserted across the aux bus to allow me to EQ for my dodgy ear.

Edited Saturday at 21:31 by Jack