The IEM (in ear monitors) Bible thread

[BCH]

Another option ...£25...very good quality

[RichardH]

Behringer PM1 might be a better bet - £33 - so a few quid more than the SubZero thing, but will give you a volume control as well

https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0BKB

Note that this ISN'T a headphone amp (like the P2) - just a passive in line volume control - but it does the XLR to minijack conversion as per the adapter above, but also gives you volume control at your fingertips.

[basstone]

Question, what are peoples views on mono vs. stereo in ear monitoring. I am planning to go down the wired  in ear route for the church worship band at the same time as putting the drums in an isolation booth to get control of the balance and overall sound level. I have 8 aux channels available for band monitors on the AH Qu16 which would not be enough for all the band members to have stereo (there is usually up to 5 or 6 band members). Does mono work well enough? I'm also thinking of using the Qu-you monitor mix app  so everyone can set their own mix on their phone, along with some behringer P2 headphone amps perhaps

[dave_bass5]

Had an interesting gig on Sat. 
I wavered a bit and took my Yamaha DBR12, as my drummer has been complaining he can’t hear me on stage well enough. 
Last time we played there I used it and it sounded great. I packed my IEM’s anyway, just in case. 
Once we stated sound checking I couldn’t wait to get the IEM’s out. The on stage sound at the back was so loud i was struggling to hear myself clearly. Our drummer seems to be getting louder, or I’m more used to having the IEM’s in, but it was painful. I’ve never said that before I’m relation to being on stage…..ever. 
Anyway, gig went well, but both my P2 and Behringer B2 mix had random issues (both are getting exchanged today). 
The DBR-12 was used though…..as a seat for when I was packing up 😁

[Woodinblack]

Funny what you say about sound changing in venues. The drummer (who uses my P2) always just has his vocals in his ears and just I guess uses the bleed through the headphones for bass and guitar etc (I don't know, but I figure someone gets whatever they ask for in their ears), but on saturday he asked for bass and guitar in his ears too. never needed that before. However, it coincides with getting the best out front sound we have had. It could be that I put a noise gate on his microphone, which he also commented that it sounded great as he wasn't getting the drums in his ears either (and thus also the PA).

[dave_bass5]

We also had the best out front sound we have had, although frustratingly it took me to have to go out front (so no keys in the mix) to sort it out. This was after two other band members and the singer had done this and said it sounded great 🙄

[EBS_freak]

3 hours ago, basstone said:

Question, what are peoples views on mono vs. stereo in ear monitoring. I am planning to go down the wired  in ear route for the church worship band at the same time as putting the drums in an isolation booth to get control of the balance and overall sound level. I have 8 aux channels available for band monitors on the AH Qu16 which would not be enough for all the band members to have stereo (there is usually up to 5 or 6 band members). Does mono work well enough? I'm also thinking of using the Qu-you monitor mix app  so everyone can set their own mix on their phone, along with some behringer P2 headphone amps perhaps

Mono works well enough - but stereo is a different kettle of fish. Having said that, I'd still take a mono IEM feed over a wedge any day. If you are feeling flush, you could always go down the ME500, ME-1 route...

[basstone]

3 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Mono works well enough - but stereo is a different kettle of fish. Having said that, I'd still take a mono IEM feed over a wedge any day. If you are feeling flush, you could always go down the ME500, ME-1 route...

Thanks for the response. ME500 etc.. would be a great idea but totally outside our budget I'm afraid. Maybe If I find I have "spare" Aux channels I could give a stereo mix to the lead singer, as that's generally the most problematic area.

[jimmyb625]

I can't remember, does the QU-16 have the additional group outputs?

 

Forget it, just checked and it doesn't.

[EBS_freak]

20 hours ago, basstone said:

Thanks for the response. ME500 etc.. would be a great idea but totally outside our budget I'm afraid. Maybe If I find I have "spare" Aux channels I could give a stereo mix to the lead singer, as that's generally the most problematic area.

In my experience, singers are the ones that make use of the stereo functionality the least! (And thats if you can stop them taking one of their IEMs out!)

[gazhowe]

After reading this mega thread with interest I’ve decided to take the plunge into iems. We have a pretty good live sound (everything is mic’d up and through an RCF pa) but my hearing is not great so the reason is to help protect what hearing I have left.

It will be a stereo wireless feed from a Presonus StudioLive 32SC via a Sennheiser xsw-iem wireless to a set of borrowed 64 Audio u6t’s to see how I get on with iem’s.  If I like them I’ll probably go down the custom route for improved isolation and fit, and have been looking at the UE6 Pro or 64 Audio a4s. I’ll still be using backline so my only slight concern is whether the iem volume I need will cause an issue. 
 

I would be grateful for advice from anyone with experience of making the switch to universal fit iems and still using backline please. Also, any opinions on the merits of the UE6 Pro v a4s would be appreciated too please. 
 

Thanks in advance. Gaz

Edited February 14, 2023 by gazhowe

[Woodinblack]

26 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

In my experience, singers are the ones that make use of the stereo functionality the least! (And thats if you can stop them taking one of their IEMs out!)

 

our singer has now gone so far as to wear earphones. They aren't wired up yet, but baby steps, its only been 7 years...

[EBS_freak]

26 minutes ago, gazhowe said:

I’ll still be using backline so my only slight concern is whether the iem volume I need will cause an issue. 

I would be grateful for advice from anyone with experience of making the switch to universal fit iems and still using backline please. Also, any opinions on the merits of the UE6 Pro v a4s would be appreciated too please. 

Imagine standing with your setup now and sticking your fingers deep into your ears. Thats the isolation that an IEM will typically give you. With your IEMs, all you need is a little volume to get over that ambient stage volume. In reality, the volume you need in the IEMs can be pretty quiet - and it certainly can be a lot less than playing with no hearing protection. If your backline was for your monitoring needs only, you may as well save your back and journeys to and from the car - assuming that the PA can cover your FoH needs without backline. (I'm also assuming that nobody else on stage is requiring your bass cab for their monitoring needs).

 

UE6 vs A4s are going to be largely separated by price. If you can afford to go to A4s, then the balanced armatures in the A4 will reveal a greater level of precision, especially in the mids and lows. The UE6 has a warmer timbre due to the inclusion of dynamic drivers and arguably not as detailed (but you know, I'm talking in uber obsessive terms terms here, the UE6s are going to sound way, way, way better than the majority of universal IEMs). If you haven't clocked already, the UE6 is a great IEM in that it has greater headroom than 3 balanced armature based IEMs (by using dynamic drivers in the mids and the low (dynamics have more headroom than BA). So the key bit for bass players, is that where you need the headroom (in the lows), a balanced armature IEM would need 2 bass balanced armatures drivers to have similar headroom to the 1 dynamic driver in the low.

 

The easiest thing to do is listen to the difference and see if the extra money of the A4 is worth it to you... (you may even prefer the sound signature of the UE6. I love the UE6 and would be one of my top choice IEMs for sure).    

 

 

[gazhowe]

20 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Imagine standing with your setup now and sticking your fingers deep into your ears. Thats the isolation that an IEM will typically give you. With your IEMs, all you need is a little volume to get over that ambient stage volume. In reality, the volume you need in the IEMs can be pretty quiet - and it certainly can be a lot less than playing with no hearing protection. If your backline was for your monitoring needs only, you may as well save your back and journeys to and from the car - assuming that the PA can cover your FoH needs without backline. (I'm also assuming that nobody else on stage is requiring your bass cab for their monitoring needs).

 

UE6 vs A4s are going to be largely separated by price. If you can afford to go to A4s, then the balanced armatures in the A4 will reveal a greater level of precision, especially in the mids and lows. The UE6 has a warmer timbre due to the inclusion of dynamic drivers and arguably not as detailed (but you know, I'm talking in uber obsessive terms terms here, the UE6s are going to sound way, way, way better than the majority of universal IEMs). If you haven't clocked already, the UE6 is a great IEM in that it has greater headroom than 3 balanced armature based IEMs (by using dynamic drivers in the mids and the low (dynamics have more headroom than BA). So the key bit for bass players, is that where you need the headroom (in the lows), a balanced armature IEM would need 2 bass balanced armatures drivers to have similar headroom to the 1 dynamic driver in the low.

 

The easiest thing to do is listen to the difference and see if the extra money of the A4 is worth it to you... (you may even prefer the sound signature of the UE6. I love the UE6 and would be one of my top choice IEMs for sure).    

 

 

Thanks @EBS_freak, that's very helpful.  I’m assuming the A4s would have greater definition due to the 3xBA's in addition to the Dynamic driver for the low end, compared to the 2xDynamic drivers and 1xBA in the UE6 Pro.  If I get on with the borrowed IEM's initially I'll book an appointment with the Custom IEM company in Leeds and ask if it's possible to demo both (assuming with Universal buds) to see which ones I prefer.

 

My backline provides some of the FoH sound and the drummer and singer also need it for monitoring so I don't think I'll be able to remove that from the equation any time soon.   The spec for the a4s show a maximum of 20db isolation v 26db isolation for the UE6 Pro.  That seems like a significant difference in real terms.  As I'll be pretty close to my backline and the drums would you recommend I prioritise additional isolation over any tone preference?

Edited February 15, 2023 by gazhowe

[fleabag]

I liked the look/reviews of the Mipro 58 system, but according to one review, adding an extra MiPro 58R belt pack receiver, doesnt mean you get 2 mixes.

 

Wha ?

 

So somebody cant add , say, 3 belt packs to let the whole 4 piece band go IEM on one MiPro 58T transmitter ? If true, bit pointless in buying

 

https://ineargear.com/mipro-mi-58-5-8ghz/

[acidbass]

5 hours ago, fleabag said:

I liked the look/reviews of the Mipro 58 system, but according to one review, adding an extra MiPro 58R belt pack receiver, doesnt mean you get 2 mixes.

 

Wha ?

 

So somebody cant add , say, 3 belt packs to let the whole 4 piece band go IEM on one MiPro 58T transmitter ? If true, bit pointless in buying

 

https://ineargear.com/mipro-mi-58-5-8ghz/

 

I think this basically means that you can't send L to one belt pack and R to the other - essentially using one transmitter to send two different mixes.  All belt packs will connect to the same transmitted mix, and you can add as many belt packs as you like to receive that mix.

Edited February 15, 2023 by acidbass

[fleabag]

Ah now i see - thanks AB

[gafbass02]

Thought I’d chip in that I’ve just upgraded my kz10s to the pro x version and they’re way better! Less harsh sounding, more ‘thump’ and generally smoother and nicer. Plus they’re smaller and lighter too. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by gafbass02

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, gafbass02 said:

Thought I’d chip in that I’ve just upgraded my kz10s to the pro x version they’re way better! Less harsh sounding, more ‘thump’ and generally smoother and nicer. Plus they’re smaller and lighter too. 

Yes, that's what I found as well. I still didn't get on with the new ones, but I did prefer them over the originals

[fleabag]

I have an LD systems on route for a march delivery and as i already use a Line 6 G75 relay wireless for my bass which uses 2.4ghz range,

will the the two systems mess each other up if too close to each other ?    Apparently the LD uses 823 – 832 and 863 – 865 MHz

[EBS_freak]

It's not just the proximity that can lead to interference, it's more accurately where intermodulation occurs. However having said that, the frequencies are so far apart, if intermodulation does occur, it's likely to be inconsequential and certainly low enough power and beyond the 5th order to be concerned about. If this means nothing to you and you want to to understand intermodulation, here's a good 5 min read - https://www.shure.com/en-US/performance-production/louder/all-about-wireless-intermodulation-distortion 

Edited February 26, 2023 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

Worth noting that 823-832 is part of the shared mic license (fee based) as opposed to the 863-865 free, no license required, frequencies.

[jimmyb625]

Just now, EBS_freak said:

Worth noting that 823-832 is part of the shared mic license (fee based) as opposed to the 863-865 free, no license required, frequencies.

I run ours in the 863-865 band, not run into any problems yet, although one festival wouldn't let us use them, as we hadn't put the tech spec through their frequency co-ordinator (bloody guitarists and their lack of understanding of what a tech-spec is for)

[fleabag]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

Worth noting that 823-832 is part of the shared mic license (fee based) as opposed to the 863-865 free, no license required, frequencies.

 

OK, cheers.   I'll make sure i tune it to 863-865

[fleabag]

The System has now turned up  ( earlier than expected )  so i hooked up my bass and the LD MEI 100G2 + KZ ZSN-C Pro Quad Driver Ears

 

The gear used is passive bass into a Behringer mini mixer, to active wedge,  out from mixer to LD 100G, which was set at 863mhz  as was the body pack, obvs.

Using mono , not stereo

 

Sound came through from the bass fine, but i was unprepared for the amount of accompanying hiss.  This only happens when playing.  The hiss completely disappears when not playing.

The system is deadly silent until i pluck a string.

 

Could i improve this in any way ?