The IEM (in ear monitors) Bible thread

[Phil Starr]

I've been meaning to update everyone on here on last weeks gig. I'm hoping it will be a bit of encouragement for those who are considering this journey or who are part way through. It's the first time we've managed to get the monitor mix perfect first time and throughout the gig for all the band members. Keeping this in perspective we've never had anything like so good a sound from floor monitors even on a professional stage. It's been a long journey in time because we've had changes in band members and a lot of gigs with deps but probably only half a dozen gigs with our permanent band members. Most of the deps are more comfortable with floor monitors.

 

First of all the experience as a band, set up was a doddle, fewer trips when loading/unloading. Really grateful for this as I was gigging with a broken foot. The digital mixer is such a boon as you don't need a line check, the meters show everything including identifying a broken Active DI creating a lot of electrical noise (I carry a spare). My own in-ears confirm the sound without a lot of 'one -two ing' the band all know how to mix their own in ear mix with their phones apart from the drummer who never remembers to log on to the network  "it's not working again Phil". Today we have someone mixing out front but honestly we've saved a successful mix so actually very little twiddling is ever needed. Sound check was a minute of one song and it all sounded good, well as good as we ever do. The gig goes like a dream, having that sound in your ears where everyone can hear just what they want is so liberating. Halfway through the first song you forget they are there. No struggling to hear what the guitar is doing because you have a nasty bass trap/resonance in the poky corner of the stage with the wooden floor and low ceiling, no feedback from the floor monitors. It's the tightest we've ever played. We are all watching the audience and the interaction is ramping up, guitarist is grabbing an extra few bars in the solos because the sound is right and it's a great night. The confidence you get from a great sound relays out to the audience, frankly the fears of feeling isolated with in-ears are forgotten. You don't realise how much extra concentration you need to compensate for not being able to hear properly. It's you ->music->audience->you and nothing in the way. It's actually relaxing when it works and I sang more than I ever have before with this band, I had a little 'more me' in my ears and was confident of pitching OK. Smiles from our singer so I knew she could hear me and was happy. Yeah, it was a good gig, added to by tech that worked.

 

So tech wise we are all in ears, ZS10 Pro for singer and guitarist, I use Sennheiser IE 100 Pro and I'm not sure what the drummer uses, Shure I think. Guitarist and I use Behringer P2's and singer my ancient Trantec wireless system. Drummer has her own mixer with a feed from the desk. Desk is an RCF M18 which is reliable and idiot proof. I've swapped out my ZS10's for the Sennheiser IE 100's because they have a flatter response and a more honest presentation especially across the mid range which helps a lot with vocals. They are a single driver unit but I've had no problem with bass or kick distortion and volume is absolutely fine they'll run way louder than I'd ever want or use. Speakers are RCF ART 745's

 

So that's it for me, all the promises of studio quality sound in my ears, freedom from poor room acoustics on stage and preserving what's left of my hearing have been achieved by the in ears and a convenient, easier set up by the digital mixer. Any fears of feeling isolated and cut off from the audience turns out to have been unfounded. I won't be going back. 

[dave_bass5]

That’s a good write up and I can relate to all that, as I’ve just gone through pretty much the same ‘life changing’ experience. Getting the XR18 has transformed the band. Being able to just get on and play, gives me the feeling I’m at home playing along to recordings etc. I can totally zone out that I’m on stage if I want to. I’ve got each guitarist and BV panned so it all sounds well places in my ears. 

So far we still have two monitors on stage, but that’s fine as it means the mics get a bit of ambient stage noise and makes the IEM’s a bit more open sounding. 
I’m the only one with a stereo IEM feed, but if the others want the same then I’ll make them start sharing, but for now we all have our own mixes and all are now using Mixing Station. 
 

Saying all that, I’m in one of those bands where some members expect it all done for them.  I have enough to do at gigs so I refuse to plug everything in. It’s all colour coded and easy enough to do, but a few members just strap on their instrument, noodle until we are all ready and won’t take them off to do anything else. Many time we have been at rehearsals and he mentions he doesn’t have a mic set up. WTF!!!

 

Sorry, that’s for another thread 😂

[Phil Starr]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

I have enough to do at gigs so I refuse to plug everything in. It’s all colour coded and easy enough to do, but a few members just strap on their instrument, noodle until we are all ready and won’t take them off to do anything else.

 

Funny you should raise this. My band are all helpful enough but it leads to mistakes. I also use the mixer with two different bands so there are two labels on the top of the mixer, but there's no space for colour coding by the sockets. Having got rid of the snake I'm now wondering if a short loom, properly labelled might be an option The aux outs on the mixer are balanced jacks so I already have four jumper leads to gender change to XLR. I've thought of lacing these together and putting their names on the plugs but I've got some old looms from analogue days I could cannibalise. It might reduce the strain on the sockets long term too, I'm thinking if I do that for the Aux outs I might end up doing it for the mic ins too.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Phil Starr

[dave_bass5]

To be fair my lot are helpful, it’s just that they don’t remember to do things like run cables or set their own mic stands up etc. Not sure it’s laziness as such, or forgetfulness. A bit of both I imagine. The drummer does most of the running around for them. He is clued up on all this so runs around with cables etc, but I wish he wouldn’t. 
 

I only use the mixer with the one band so in theory it’s easy as everyone always uses the same inputs. I still get ‘which am I in’ though, which normally gets a ‘same as always’ reply. 
I made these cards up for everyone and keep a few by the mixer at gigs. The colours match the channel colours we use in Mixing station so it helps them get to know where to plug in. In the process of doing some proper vinyl rings to go on the mixer to match the diagram. 

[Woodinblack]

Mine plug everything in themselves, but then they should..

 

 

And also it is the same group and we have been using it since 2017 for well over 100 gigs, and more practices, so they ought to really

[warwickhunt]

Our guitarist uses the desk with 2 bands + several Buskers, so I did a chart to make it easy to plug in/out.  Got him to write in each circle who went where.  

[lemmywinks]

I sit our 12.5" tablet on its stand on top of the rack with our main mix clearly visible, all inputs and aux are named. Every cable on the XR18 is XLR so we just have the big Thomann cable bag (which is fantastic btw) full of different XLR cables. Still for a good few gigs I got the following questions:

"Which cable do I use?" and "Where do I plug this into?"

 

After multiple "They're all the same" and "It says on the screen" they just do it themselves now, it's brilliant.

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

Mine plug everything in themselves, but then they should..

 

 

And also it is the same group and we have been using it since 2017 for well over 100 gigs, and more practices, so they ought to really

I was going to put names on the mixer, but half the band (at least) are as blind as bats. Once some of the cables are going in it’s hard for them to read something that’s on the floor lol. At one point I had two of them on all 4’s trying to figure out where those cables go 😂

Only done a handful of gigs with it so far but as time goes on it will be more familiar to them. 

[dave_bass5]

40 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

I sit our 12.5" tablet on its stand on top of the rack with our main mix clearly visible, all inputs and aux are named. Every cable on the XR18 is XLR so we just have the big Thomann cable bag (which is fantastic btw) full of different XLR cables. Still for a good few gigs I got the following questions:

"Which cable do I use?" and "Where do I plug this into?"

 

After multiple "They're all the same" and "It says on the screen" they just do it themselves now, it's brilliant.

It is nice being able to standardise the cables now. Other than the instrument cables it’s all XLR, even the monitors. Made life a lot easier as I don’t have to tell them what cables to use. 

[lemmywinks]

2 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

To be fair my lot are helpful, it’s just that they don’t remember to do things like run cables or set their own mic stands up etc. Not sure it’s laziness as such, or forgetfulness. A bit of both I imagine. The drummer does most of the running around for them. He is clued up on all this so runs around with cables etc, but I wish he wouldn’t. 

 

Was the same with us as me and the old guitarist used to do everything and when he left I explained that there was no band dad any more and they'd have to run their own cables, do line checks etc. There was no animosity in it, they just didn't see it as their job and also I suspect they'd been gigging so long and were a bit embarrassed to ask what everything did. Just used to having it all done for them.

 

[dave_bass5]

3 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

 

Was the same with us as me and the old guitarist used to do everything and when he left I explained that there was no band dad any more and they'd have to run their own cables, do line checks etc. There was no animosity in it, they just didn't see it as their job and also I suspect they'd been gigging so long and were a bit embarrassed to ask what everything did. Just used to having it all done for them.

 

Yes, I think that’s my situation as well. They are very new to the 21st century way of doing things. Had things done for them in the old line up and didnt really get the experience of doing things themselves. Even down to taking a PA speaker off a stand and collapsing it took two of them to work it out at the first gig we did with them 😂

 

[EBS_freak]

11 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

I've been meaning to update everyone on here on last weeks gig. I'm hoping it will be a bit of encouragement for those who are considering this journey or who are part way through. It's the first time we've managed to get the monitor mix perfect first time and throughout the gig for all the band members. Keeping this in perspective we've never had anything like so good a sound from floor monitors even on a professional stage. It's been a long journey in time because we've had changes in band members and a lot of gigs with deps but probably only half a dozen gigs with our permanent band members. Most of the deps are more comfortable with floor monitors.

 

First of all the experience as a band, set up was a doddle, fewer trips when loading/unloading. Really grateful for this as I was gigging with a broken foot. The digital mixer is such a boon as you don't need a line check, the meters show everything including identifying a broken Active DI creating a lot of electrical noise (I carry a spare). My own in-ears confirm the sound without a lot of 'one -two ing' the band all know how to mix their own in ear mix with their phones apart from the drummer who never remembers to log on to the network  "it's not working again Phil". Today we have someone mixing out front but honestly we've saved a successful mix so actually very little twiddling is ever needed. Sound check was a minute of one song and it all sounded good, well as good as we ever do. The gig goes like a dream, having that sound in your ears where everyone can hear just what they want is so liberating. Halfway through the first song you forget they are there. No struggling to hear what the guitar is doing because you have a nasty bass trap/resonance in the poky corner of the stage with the wooden floor and low ceiling, no feedback from the floor monitors. It's the tightest we've ever played. We are all watching the audience and the interaction is ramping up, guitarist is grabbing an extra few bars in the solos because the sound is right and it's a great night. The confidence you get from a great sound relays out to the audience, frankly the fears of feeling isolated with in-ears are forgotten. You don't realise how much extra concentration you need to compensate for not being able to hear properly. It's you ->music->audience->you and nothing in the way. It's actually relaxing when it works and I sang more than I ever have before with this band, I had a little 'more me' in my ears and was confident of pitching OK. Smiles from our singer so I knew she could hear me and was happy. Yeah, it was a good gig, added to by tech that worked.

 

So tech wise we are all in ears, ZS10 Pro for singer and guitarist, I use Sennheiser IE 100 Pro and I'm not sure what the drummer uses, Shure I think. Guitarist and I use Behringer P2's and singer my ancient Trantec wireless system. Drummer has her own mixer with a feed from the desk. Desk is an RCF M18 which is reliable and idiot proof. I've swapped out my ZS10's for the Sennheiser IE 100's because they have a flatter response and a more honest presentation especially across the mid range which helps a lot with vocals. They are a single driver unit but I've had no problem with bass or kick distortion and volume is absolutely fine they'll run way louder than I'd ever want or use. Speakers are RCF ART 745's

 

So that's it for me, all the promises of studio quality sound in my ears, freedom from poor room acoustics on stage and preserving what's left of my hearing have been achieved by the in ears and a convenient, easier set up by the digital mixer. Any fears of feeling isolated and cut off from the audience turns out to have been unfounded. I won't be going back. 

And another one. 👍

[lemmywinks]

As a side note I did a midweek function on Tuesday where we used the A&H ME1 personal monitor setup, was all hardwired into the house PA and was extremely easy to use. Makes me think the Behringer equivalent would be a nice option for those who want mid set adjustments but don't want to use a phone or tablet or are a bit reluctant  relying on an app. Can learn the interface in seconds.

[Muppet]

7 hours ago, lemmywinks said:

As a side note I did a midweek function on Tuesday where we used the A&H ME1 personal monitor setup, was all hardwired into the house PA and was extremely easy to use. Makes me think the Behringer equivalent would be a nice option for those who want mid set adjustments but don't want to use a phone or tablet or are a bit reluctant  relying on an app. Can learn the interface in seconds.

I use exactly this - P16M - a brilliant bit of kit. A lot quicker than using an app and you can adjust eq for each channel too. Give you stereo monitoring via the ultranet Cat5 cable from the XR18. This then goes out to my IEM transmitter and hey presto. 

 

[Phil Starr]

11 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

And another one. 👍

I was always a believer, but the band were sceptics. I'd get lynched now if I asked the band to give up their in-ears. 

 

Many thanks to you personally Russ both for what you put up here and helping to steer me in the right direction with the odd pm. You are one of the best.

[Chienmortbb]

I wish I could get my dinosaurs to go this way. The singer will not give up control of HIS PA. The Rhythm guitarist is one of those that can walk into a Pub first and get to the Bar last, so the chance of them buying or buying into the IEM revolution is very low.

 

IRoNically the drummer (Ron) is the oldest and most likely to agree.

[lemmywinks]

1 hour ago, Muppet said:

I use exactly this - P16M - a brilliant bit of kit. A lot quicker than using an app and you can adjust eq for each channel too. Give you stereo monitoring via the ultranet Cat5 cable from the XR18. This then goes out to my IEM transmitter and hey presto. 

 

 

That actually looks a lot better as you can eq individual channels, the A&H only had a basic 3 band eq for the entire mix. I did like the screen and overall size of the A&H though. Probably wouldn't be any quicker for me as I have a 10" Windows tablet running the full X-Air clamped to my bass stand with the screen always on so any adjustments are super fast, can imagine it would be much better than messing about with phones etc though.

[Woodinblack]

Would love a PM16, but its just another thing to buy / carry!

[BigRedX]

For those of you using Ultranet, where are you getting your gig-proof properly coilable Cat5 cables from?

 

In the days when I was running a BassPod and Floorboard which are connected by Cat5 I was getting through a cable every other month. I ended up buying a couple of very expensive Van Damme Cat5 leads which were a lot more robust, but even they were never as easy to coil up as a standard mic lead and eventually after a couple of years these failed as well.

[bassmansam]

26 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

For those of you using Ultranet, where are you getting your gig-proof properly coilable Cat5 cables from?

 

In the days when I was running a BassPod and Floorboard which are connected by Cat5 I was getting through a cable every other month. I ended up buying a couple of very expensive Van Damme Cat5 leads which were a lot more robust, but even they were never as easy to coil up as a standard mic lead and eventually after a couple of years these failed as well.

 

I've had this one a few years. Extremely high quality. Infact most of my cables are from Designacable 

 

https://www.designacable.com/van-damme-shielded-cat5e-rj45-network-lead.html

[BigRedX]

8 minutes ago, bassmansam said:

 

I've had this one a few years. Extremely high quality. Infact most of my cables are from Designacable 

 

https://www.designacable.com/van-damme-shielded-cat5e-rj45-network-lead.html

 

That looks very similar to the ones I bought directly from Van Damme (I'm sure it was the same Cat5 cable). They were fine for about 6 months use, and then become less and less able to coil neatly before finally failing. Are yours still properly coilable?

[Chienmortbb]

21 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

For those of you using Ultranet, where are you getting your gig-proof properly coilable Cat5 cables from?

 

In the days when I was running a BassPod and Floorboard which are connected by Cat5 I was getting through a cable every other month. I ended up buying a couple of very expensive Van Damme Cat5 leads which were a lot more robust, but even they were never as easy to coil up as a standard mic lead and eventually after a couple of years these failed as well.

The problem with Cat 5/6/7 is that it is designed to be used in a static environment. Tour grade Cat 5/6/7 cables are expensive, and I would not try to make an RJ45 terminated cable. Sommer makes one, but it is expensive compared to normal network cables. PM me for a price or other lengths. Touring rigs would use racked systems with Neutrik EtherCON connectors but that increases the complexity and the cost again. About an extra £15 per end.

 

 

 

[bassmansam]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

 

That looks very similar to the ones I bought directly from Van Damme (I'm sure it was the same Cat5 cable). They were fine for about 6 months use, and then become less and less able to coil neatly before finally failing. Are yours still properly coilable?

Yup they're solid. I always coil them properly after use and they've been good got years. 

[Muppet]

5 hours ago, BigRedX said:

For those of you using Ultranet, where are you getting your gig-proof properly coilable Cat5 cables from?

 

In the days when I was running a BassPod and Floorboard which are connected by Cat5 I was getting through a cable every other month. I ended up buying a couple of very expensive Van Damme Cat5 leads which were a lot more robust, but even they were never as easy to coil up as a standard mic lead and eventually after a couple of years these failed as well.

I'm using a flat Cat6 cable in a retractable reel I bought off Amazon like this one

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01LVZ3UI6

 

[JPJ]

A little update from my side. As I’ve probably said on here before, I mix the FOH and monitors from stage side whilst playing so some gigs can be kind of ‘busy’, especially if we’re in a difficult room or we’re experiencing any gear issues. But Friday night’s gig was going well and with an extended half-time break for the bingo, I took the opportunity to plug the XVive in and played the second half using in-ears tweaking my IEM mix as best I could between songs. The XVive worked perfectly with no drop outs or unwanted noises despite being surrounded by wireless devices (Airport Express for control of the XAir mixer, Line6 G30 for my bass signal, Lekato wireless for the guitarist, LD Systems IEM 100 for the singers in-ears), and being able to hear every note clearly was a revelation, but the foam buds I was using on my ZX10’s are clearly not as isolating as I thought as I was suffering from quite a lot of bleed meaning that I had to run them a lot louder than I would have normally wanted.  However, this test was enough of a success to remove any doubts I had about the suitability of IEM’s in a pub band scenario, and things will only improve as I nail both the mix and the isolation.