VIGIER v WARWICK

[B.Flat]

 

 

I am looking for advice from anyone with experience of these basses.

I have a 2008 Warwick Corvette $$ and have the opportunity to aquire a 1988 Vigier Passion 11, carbon fibre neck.

Which way to go ?

All advice and views on this welcome.

[White Cloud]

Vigier all the way: truly wonderful, unique, state of the art instruments. I currently own a Passion III and previously owned an Arpege II (100% graphite neck)... just stunning, nothing like them. The best basses I've owned.

Warwicks are great but the market is saturated with all sorts; I've heard that Vigier make 10-12 basses of each model annually... hence, they are like rocking horse poo.

Edited December 20, 2019 by White Cloud

[thodrik]

Very different basses. 

It really depends on what you are looking for in a bass. Do you need to sell the Warwick to buy the Vigier? Is there something about the Warwick you don't like?

The Vigier quality is top notch in general (I have two Vigiers). Though with a 31 year old bass I would want to try the bass first before committing to a purchase. If you have a chance to try it then I would highly recommend it. 

The only thing I would say against Vigier basses is that they don't (at least to my ears) deliver a very vintage tone as a result of the carbon fibre neck (or even a 10/90 carbon/wood neck on the new ones). The tone is phenomenal for sure. However, if the ideal bass sound in your head is boutique version of a Fender Jazz bass design, then you might not like the Vigier. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by thodrik

[itu]

30 minutes ago, thodrik said:

Very different basses.

Exactly. If you want to learn one, go ahead. The semiparametric preamp is very different to others in the market. The neck is stable. Warwick does not produce stable necks. There really is a difference. Weather, humidity, different string sets... no adjustments, no need to adjust.

A bit different, but very functional high end tool.

[Lfalex v1.1]

As an owner of 3, but now 2 Warwicks plus a Vigier Passion 5 s3...

Get the Vigier. Especially if it's an s2.

More Warwicks will be along later if necessary. In my experience in the studio, the Vigier is much more controllable in the mix and is a doddle to play for extended periods. The same is true for live work. It naturally cuts though better.

Not to do the Warwicks down, but they're less consistent from one bass to the next, and the weight/ neck profiles might be an issue for s some. The Warwicks can sound mighty impressive in isolation, but less balanced than the Vigier. My Vigier is really smooth sounding but with bags of headroom if needed (18v EQ) and sounds less impressive until it gets into a mix/band setting.

Hope that helps, and good luck!

[HazBeen]

The OP has indicated he already OWNS a Wick Double Buck.

Is the Vigier an upgrade to a $$? Absolutely.

But like all graphite necked instruments the Vigier’s tone is very modern which may or may not suit you.

Beware of delamination on the Vigier, a very common thing with older Vigiers. Generally it does not cause structural issues, but may require some attention.

[Lfalex v1.1]

2 hours ago, HazBeen said:

The OP has indicated he already OWNS a Wick Double Buck.

Is the Vigier an upgrade to a $$? Absolutely.

But like all graphite necked instruments the Vigier’s tone is very modern which may or may not suit you.

Beware of delamination on the Vigier, a very common thing with older Vigiers. Generally it does not cause structural issues, but may require some attention.

If you're referring to the phenolic fretboard with regard to the delamination issue, my Vigier and Yamaha have been fine. My Status' fretboard, on the other hand, was disintegrating before my very eyes. Just keep the fretboard dry and clean and wipe off any sweat. Use a microfibre cloth, but no chemicals or polishes..

As for the modern tone, it can be tamed with the passive tone control on the bridge pickup. String choice can help with this, too, but I guess flats would be a bridge too far! 

[4000]

On 20/12/2019 at 20:08, itu said:

Exactly. If you want to learn one, go ahead. The semiparametric preamp is very different to others in the market. The neck is stable. Warwick does not produce stable necks. There really is a difference. Weather, humidity, different string sets... no adjustments, no need to adjust.

A bit different, but very functional high end tool.

The comment about Warwicks not producing stable necks is rather odd. I’ve owned several and they’ve all been very stable. Arguably more stable in fact than some of the graphite-necked Statuses I’ve owned, 2 of which had necks which went south. 

[acidbass]

Vigier for me. The tone of their Passion IVs is simply superb.

[itu]

39 minutes ago, 4000 said:

The comment about Warwicks not producing stable necks is rather odd.

I need to remind you of the several quality points within Wartburg. If compared with the same price points, then another story.

[4000]

45 minutes ago, itu said:

I need to remind you of the several quality points within Wartburg. If compared with the same price points, then another story.

I have no idea what this means.😂

All but one 2 of mine were very early and high end. The newest was a ‘96 Dolphin, but even that didn’t move. And trust me, I’ve had plenty of basses that have moved. 

[itu]

A '96 Dolphin, that is high end.

[Mastodon2]

Is a Vigier a better bass than a Warwick $$? Maybe, it depends on what you want from a bass. Is it more "high end"? Yes, but that is meaningless if the bass doesn't deliver what you need from it. 

I've played a lot if basses with graphite and carbon fibre construction thanks to my brother rotating them through his collection (lots of Status, Zon, Bogart, Zoot and possibly more) and I've had a very brief go on a Vigier. These basses are all different takes on one flavour and if that fundamental sound isn't what you're after then maybe the Vigier isn't for you. On the other hand, it might be perfect. However, if you have to lose thr Warwick in order to get the Vigier, maybe you should give the Vigier a test drive first.

Of the two, I think I'd want the Vigier, if it was in good condition with no problems.

The thing about Warwick necks being unstable just isn't true. You can dig up stories of necks shifting with any manufacturer - even the ones with carbon fiber necks that apparently don't need a truss rod because they'll never shift. I've had a German Thumb BO5 for a few years now, the only shift in the neck was the intentional one to drop the action right down as the previous owner preferred his action a fair bit higher than mine.

 

 

[thodrik]

3 hours ago, Mastodon2 said:

Is a Vigier a better bass than a Warwick $$? Maybe, it depends on what you want from a bass. Is it more "high end"? Yes, but that is meaningless if the bass doesn't deliver what you need from

Of the two, I think I'd want the Vigier, if it was in good condition with no problems.

The thing about Warwick necks being unstable just isn't true. You can dig up stories of necks shifting with any manufacturer - even the ones with carbon fiber necks that apparently don't need a truss rod because they'll never shift. I've had a German Thumb BO5 for a few years now, the only shift in the neck was the intentional one to drop the action right down as the previous owner preferred his action a fair bit higher than mine.

 

 

Pretty much this. I love my two Vigiers and think that the fit and finish is up there with any high end/boutique company. However if the ideal tone in your head is a Fender Precision then the Vigier isn’t going to cut it.

However, even after owning a Vigier for five years as my main bass (2004-2009) I always thought that something was missing from my sound. I found that a Sadowsky Metro bass was the perfect bridge between my old barely working Fender Precision and my truss rod-less insanely high output Vigier Excess. 

if I buy another bass it will either be a Warwick Thumb 6 or a Spector 6.

[4000]

On 27/12/2019 at 10:39, itu said:

A '96 Dolphin, that is high end.

I had a ‘91 Dolphin Pro1, a ‘96 Dolphin Pro 1, a ‘91 Streamer Stage 1 and an early Dolphin Pro II. And possibly others, it’s all getting a bit blurry these days.😂

[4000]

17 hours ago, Mastodon2 said:

Is a Vigier a better bass than a Warwick $$? Maybe, it depends on what you want from a bass. Is it more "high end"? Yes, but that is meaningless if the bass doesn't deliver what you need from it. 

I've played a lot if basses with graphite and carbon fibre construction thanks to my brother rotating them through his collection (lots of Status, Zon, Bogart, Zoot and possibly more) and I've had a very brief go on a Vigier. These basses are all different takes on one flavour and if that fundamental sound isn't what you're after then maybe the Vigier isn't for you. On the other hand, it might be perfect. However, if you have to lose thr Warwick in order to get the Vigier, maybe you should give the Vigier a test drive first.

Of the two, I think I'd want the Vigier, if it was in good condition with no problems.

The thing about Warwick necks being unstable just isn't true. You can dig up stories of necks shifting with any manufacturer - even the ones with carbon fiber necks that apparently don't need a truss rod because they'll never shift. I've had a German Thumb BO5 for a few years now, the only shift in the neck was the intentional one to drop the action right down as the previous owner preferred his action a fair bit higher than mine.

 

 

My first Sei, a 6, had carbon rods and that neck moved more than anything I’ve ever owned, so much so I struggled to gig with it. Apparently it did settle down, years after I had it, but that’s why I sold it. I had the ‘91 Dolphin at the same time and that never budged a millimetre. 

FWIW, I love the idea of fully carbon fibre necks, but I’ve owned several and played many more and the sound tends not to do it for me, although I do play with a plectrum and I think that’s a big factor. I’ve found I can only really get them to work with a parametric style eq, which allows me to weed out the stuff I don’t like so much. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by 4000

[B.Flat]

Thanks for all the replies and advice so far.

Main prob. for me is that I can't play the Vigier before I buy and the Warwick has to go in p/x.

Would Vigier owners say that the 'modern' side of the intrinsic sound can be eq'd down, or out, with a parametric preamp ? I have a Noll three band, fully para; preamp I could install.

[thodrik]

35 minutes ago, B.Flat said:

Thanks for all the replies and advice so far.

Main prob. for me is that I can't play the Vigier before I buy and the Warwick has to go in p/x.

Would Vigier owners say that the 'modern' side of the intrinsic sound can be eq'd down, or out, with a parametric preamp ? I have a Noll three band, fully para; preamp I could install.

You can try. However the carbon/graphite component of the instrument will give the instrument a certain character that is really hard to EQ out. I mean, as hard as I have tried with a variety of EQ settings and systems, I cannot make either of my Vigiers have the woody characteristic of a passive Fender Precision or Jazz. However you can get a tone in the general ballpark.

There should be enough demo videos online for Vigiers to give you an idea of whether that type of sound is something you would enjoy. The actual fit and finish of the instrument should be excellent. 

[White Cloud]

2 hours ago, B.Flat said:

Thanks for all the replies and advice so far.

Main prob. for me is that I can't play the Vigier before I buy and the Warwick has to go in p/x.

Would Vigier owners say that the 'modern' side of the intrinsic sound can be eq'd down, or out, with a parametric preamp ? I have a Noll three band, fully para; preamp I could install.

Difficult one to answer because sound and tonality is so subjective: For me, the Vigier tone is just on point; a wide palette with each note consistent and even, with incredible sustain.

The advent of my Vigier purchase saw the end of the line for my passive Fender Jazz and active Overwater Progress. Personally, I would not consider swapping out the preamp for anything. I prefer ithe Vigier to my old Wal and Alembic.

Edited December 30, 2019 by White Cloud

[B.Flat]

OK y'all !  Happy New Year.

Thank you for the views and advice !

I am about to pull the trigger on the px deal, Warwick for Vigier Passion II.

I have a final question,  which is what do you think are the comparative values, in £s, on each bass. This is not all important but I am working on the idea that if the Vigier does not work out for me I could maybe px it again to retrieve a Wick $$, does this sound in the bounds of reason? As a retiree I do not have much disposable income and this possibility would take some of the chance out of the operation;

I will be interested to see the response, if any , to this.

I have scoured the net to make my own mind up on this but there seems to be a wide range of asking prices for both basses.

[EMG456]

Basschat is a very friendly place- perhaps there is a Vigier owner who lives relatively close to you who could let you have a brief try of one. This would probably inform your next move better than anything other than playing the exact bass you are interested.
 

Incidentally, how far is it from you? I have occasionally travelled half the length of the UK to play a prospective purchase and the cost of travel can be offset against the cost of couriers. 

Having retired myself, I understand the risk of a misjudged expensive purchase is magnified so tread warily but it could also end up being the best thing you’ve bought.

good luck. 

[thodrik]

Apologies if I am missing something, but surely the relative trade value of the Vigier Passion II in a 'Warwick for a Vigier' trade is going to be same as the relative trade value of a Vigier Passion II in a 'Vigier for a Warwick' trade?

I would presume that the relative trade values of the basses subject to the px deal have been discussed already since the deal appears to be imminent. If the Vigier doesn't work out then I would just try to trade it again on similar terms. 

Ultimately the value of the instrument in a future trade will depend on the basses subject to the trade at the time of the trade. However, you should be able to sell the Vigier for a decent price providing you with enough cash to buy another Warwick $$. The custom Warwicks come in different specifications and levels of 'bling' so there will be some Warwicks that are worth more than the Vigier in any trade deal (for example a highly blinged up Warwick Thumb or Streamer with diamond encrusted inlays, but those are fairly rare). 

Best of luck.

[Chopthebass]

I just bought a Passion iv 5-string. I wish I’d bought Vigier years ago. The tone is unique but very even across the fingerboard. Effortless to play and feels like a million dollars in your hands. 
The only Warwick I’ve owned was a neck thru Thumb 5 and it was terrible to play. Mainly because of neck dive, but secondly the lack lustre sound from the MECs. 
 

so my vote is get the Vigier. It’s an investment too 

[itu]

Depending on the condition of the Vigier Passion II, the values have been something like £750 - 1900 depending on the condition, the amount of strings, and accessories (like the original hard case). Those few under one grand have been in pretty bad condition: ruined preamps, lacquer and so on.

The fabrication was limited and all serials including string amounts and production dates can be found from Vigier's web pages.

(Try to find an Arpege with Nautilus system, and you can say that a Passion is one pretty common bass! I have seen only one for sale in Zikinf during internet time. Just like a Neuser Clawhammer/Claudia that I happened to see in one Swedish "basschat" few years ago. Never seen one in real life, but they do exist.)

[B.Flat]

I forgot to say that both the Warwick and Vigier are standard production models, no bling or fancy timbers,, both in very good condition for their age, Warwick with Rockbass hard case, Vigier with non-vigier flight case in good condition