Harley Benton Rickenfaker?

[prowla]

1 hour ago, Maude said:

I can't believe the bridge can cause such debate when the Rickenbacker bridge is IMO such a poor design. Sure there will be people that will say "I've had no problems" but it has to have the worst way of setting intonation I've ever come across, and the tail lift problem is a real problem, for those that don't know, the rear of the bridge is not secured so bends up over time under string tension where the weak point on the bridge is, eventually your have to raise the saddle height so the strings will still sit on them. I like Rickenbackers and am not trying to rubbish them but arguing that a Chickenbacker bridge isn't as good as Rickenbacker bridge seems pretty futile. Unfortunately for what is worth, the HB bridge does look like it's copied the Rickenbacker bridge enough to have incorporated the risk of tail lift, from the pictures it appears that the last rearward fixing is way forwards of the string anchor point, unless there's a fixing I can't see at the back. Also my opinion only but, on an expensive genuine Rick I'd be annoyed, but a £150 bass, I'd just put a couple of fixings neatly down through the rear of the bridge and get on with life. 

The HB hardware is the same as other Chickenbackers.

The Ric bridge is just a tune-o-matic, which sits on the tailpiece; I like the styling of the tailpiece, but it has always been a weak point (though I like light strings, so I've not had issues) and Ric have now released a new 4003 bridge/tailpiece which eliminates tail-lift.

In fairness to RIC, they did try updating the design before, with a Schaller 3D, but people just kept buying the 4003 regardless.

[stewblack]

4 hours ago, bertbass said:

Getting back to the bass.  Reading the specs, the nut seems quite wide.  Is the neck more jazz or precision?  Is it thin or chunky? 

I find it very thin. Just got in after gigging the new bass. Stayed in tune, a joy to play and sounded absolutely thunderous through CTM 100 and BF Compact. 

The neck is loverly. 

[stewblack]

4 hours ago, prowla said:

The HB hardware is the same as other Chickenbackers.

The Ric bridge is just a tune-o-matic, which sits on the tailpiece; I like the styling of the tailpiece, but it has always been a weak point (though I like light strings, so I've not had issues) and Ric have now released a new 4003 bridge/tailpiece which eliminates tail-lift.

In fairness to RIC, they did try updating the design before, with a Schaller 3D, but people just kept buying the 4003 regardless.

I have a ChickenBacker as well as this Harley Benton and I can absolutely assure you the hardware is not the same. 

Maybe because this isn't a Ric copy. 

[prowla]

1 hour ago, stewblack said:

I have a ChickenBacker as well as this Harley Benton and I can absolutely assure you the hardware is not the same. 

Maybe because this isn't a Ric copy. 

OK - it looks like it from the pictures...

A HB RB-414CS (hmmm - what is "RB"?):

An AliExpress Chickenbacker bass.

Now I would hazard a guess that the bridge, pickups, neck pickup, treble pickup surround, pickguard, and knobs are sourced from the same supplier...

Here's another, a "Chris Squire" model, with dot position markers, treble pickup located differently, the same strap buttons, and I would hazard a guess the same treble pickup(?):

That is the basis for my assertion that the HB is indeed a Chickenbacker with a different headstock and a tweaked body shape; on top of that, they designate it an "RB" model (they use "MM" for their Music Man copies, "TB" for their Thunderbirds, JB for their Jazz Basses, and so-on).

There's no getting away from the fact that it is still a remarkable price for the instrument, but it is what it is and the styling tweaks are a case of putting lipstick on a chicken(backer).

[Maude]

5 minutes ago, prowla said:

.... the styling tweaks are a case of putting lipstick on a chicken(backer).

Lipsticks go on the Dano fakers surely. 

[stewblack]

That's different from the fakers I have.

 

[stewblack]

Anyway, the only thing that matters to me is it looks, sounds and plays like a dream. Others are welcome to disagree but I love it. Well done Thomann, well done.

[prowla]

17 minutes ago, stewblack said:

That's different from the fakers I have.

 

Aha - I sensed we were talking about different things there!

[prowla]

16 minutes ago, stewblack said:

Anyway, the only thing that matters to me is it looks, sounds and plays like a dream. Others are welcome to disagree but I love it. Well done Thomann, well done.

Yep, as I say, you can’t go wrong at that price. 

[Bassassin]

The hardware on the HB is identical to that on most modern 4003 copies - not just Chinese instruments. The bridge design first appeared on Korean-made Shine basses, probably about 12-15 years ago. At that time new Rick copies were incredibly scarce, and most of the few that did surface (such as UK brand Indie) did not use Rick-style hardware or electronics.

I think this bridge design originated on the Shine-branded basses - here's a pic from The Archive:

No idea why they would have come up with this rather than use existing Rick bridge copies, such as the replica Allparts have been selling since forever. Interestingly these used the Seymour Duncan SRB1 pickup set, as presumably other copy units weren't available at the time. The Shine Fakers weren't budget basses.

I also don't know why this bridge design started appearing unbranded all over pretty much every new Rick copy - possibly whoever owned the design sold it, maybe it's just copied. Very curious that no modern Fakers have accurate hardware & pickups though.

[prowla]

It was on the Rockinbetters too (they may have been the first MIC 'fakers).

The issue with the bass' design was that it was based on a Fender scale and had 22 frets; once they stuck the body on, the bridge position was further up the body, so they made a base plate to mimic the Ric one and reach the end of the body, but the bridge itself was instead right at the end where the Ric's mute assemble sits.

I remember seeing these being sold as Ric replacement bridges, which wouldn't work...

[prowla]

The Retrovibe Renegade was a decent modern Ric copy; the chap who got them made is a decent bass player himself and a nice bloke.

(However, they also break RIC trademark and I think they're not made anymore.)

[BreadBin]

Just now, prowla said:

(However, they also break RIC trademark and I think they're not made anymore.)

Yup, he got given a Cease and Desist notice I believe.

[prowla]

Just now, BreadBin said:

Yup, he got given a Cease and Desist notice I believe.

Which was fair enough. 🙂

He's now producing other kit, including a Tony Butler (Big Country) signature model and some Ric replacement parts (which don't infringe EU trademarks).

[bertbass]

16 hours ago, stewblack said:

I find it very thin. Just got in after gigging the new bass. Stayed in tune, a joy to play and sounded absolutely thunderous through CTM 100 and BF Compact. 

The neck is loverly. 

Many thanks!

[kodiakblair]

Wee pang o regret for selling this one 😭

 

 

[Woodinblack]

Is that the whole retrovibe collection there?

[kodiakblair]

57 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Is that the whole retrovibe collection there?

Near enough 🙂 Sold those  couple of year back and the Super-P earlier this year. Still have a 5 string Vantage.

[Bassassin]

7 hours ago, prowla said:

It was on the Rockinbetters too (they may have been the first MIC 'fakers).

The issue with the bass' design was that it was based on a Fender scale and had 22 frets; once they stuck the body on, the bridge position was further up the body, so they made a base plate to mimic the Ric one and reach the end of the body, but the bridge itself was instead right at the end where the Ric's mute assemble sits.

I remember seeing these being sold as Ric replacement bridges, which wouldn't work...

The first UK Rockinbetters were 21-fret & had a conventional bridge:

If I remember from an ancient BC thread, it's another toaster under the Fender style cover. Not 100% about this but I think the first ones were MIK, as were the Indies I mentioned earlier.

Rockinbetter's a bit of a curious brand - the name seems to have originated with a Canadian distributor called Dillion (or possibly Dillon, links are all gone now) which was also distributor for Tokai, presumably leading to the conflation many are mildly irritated by. I did see pics of the Canadian market copies in the early 00s and they weren't identical to the ones we got.

7 hours ago, prowla said:

The Retrovibe Renegade was a decent modern Ric copy; the chap who got them made is a decent bass player himself and a nice bloke.

(However, they also break RIC trademark and I think they're not made anymore.)

These are nice basses - David still manages to sneak the odd one or two out if you keep an eye on the Fakers FB group, I'm sure he just finds a few under the bed or at the back of random cupboards from time to time...

I have an original set-neck RV4, only two in the world in this colour, according to David:

Any excuse to keep posting this pic! Scratchplate/controls are my own mod as I'm no fan of the original 4001 style plate.

[stewblack]

45 minutes ago, Bassassin said:

The first UK Rockinbetters were 21-fret & had a conventional bridge:

If I remember from an ancient BC thread, it's another toaster under the Fender style cover. Not 100% about this but I think the first ones were MIK, as were the Indies I mentioned earlier.

My Rockinbetter had this bridge, modded with a P pickup at the neck. Mirrored plate. It was rather nice. had to sell it to insure the car.

[kodiakblair]

23 minutes ago, stewblack said:

had to sell it to insure the car.

Nightmare 😞

[prowla]

1 hour ago, Bassassin said:

The first UK Rockinbetters were 21-fret & had a conventional bridge:

If I remember from an ancient BC thread, it's another toaster under the Fender style cover. Not 100% about this but I think the first ones were MIK, as were the Indies I mentioned earlier.

Rockinbetter's a bit of a curious brand - the name seems to have originated with a Canadian distributor called Dillion (or possibly Dillon, links are all gone now) which was also distributor for Tokai, presumably leading to the conflation many are mildly irritated by. I did see pics of the Canadian market copies in the early 00s and they weren't identical to the ones we got.

These are nice basses - David still manages to sneak the odd one or two out if you keep an eye on the Fakers FB group, I'm sure he just finds a few under the bed or at the back of random cupboards from time to time...

I have an original set-neck RV4, only two in the world in this colour, according to David:

Any excuse to keep posting this pic! Scratchplate/controls are my own mod as I'm no fan of the original 4001 style plate.

Funnily enough, the UK distributor of Rockinbetter was/is also the UK distributor for Tokai, and goes under the name Tokai UK; thereby further contributing to the confusion!

Also, coincidentally, I’m going to pick up a Retrovibe tomorrow; I have plans for it...

[stewblack]

2 hours ago, prowla said:

I have plans for it...

Taking it to a gig and playing it perhaps?

 

[stewblack]

Sorry did I spoil the big reveal?

 

[prowla]

Haha! 🙂