chris_b Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 Well, the trouble I've seen with guitarists comes only second to the trouble I've seen with vocalists! Unfortunately, the truth is that the music industry, and most of the audience, only sees the front man/men. Their american record company thought that Cream was Eric Clapton's backing band!! By and large, the rhythm section is deemed to be expendable. As soon as success comes round the corner the band gets axed and are replace by musicians on a wage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 (edited) [quote name='chris_b' post='41927' date='Aug 6 2007, 01:00 PM']Their american record company thought that Cream was Eric Clapton's backing band!![/quote] And to his dying day Ahmet Ertegun still truly believed that. Edited August 6, 2007 by The Funk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 [quote name='chris_b' post='41927' date='Aug 6 2007, 01:00 PM']By and large, the rhythm section is deemed to be expendable. As soon as success comes round the corner the band gets axed and are replace by musicians on a wage.[/quote] unless of course they're led zepplin, then they can't go on without their original drummer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 [quote name='EdwardHimself' date='Aug 6 2007, 08:52 PM' post='42171'] unless of course they're led zepplin, then they can't go on without their original drummer MB1. That would mean, somebody actually signed Mick Hucknell,as simply red????................Looks like Pete Hooks planning to sue if barney and mr morris go out as New Order without him?.That might prove guitarists and drummers arent superior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceguyhomer Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 All I'll say is ...if you punch them, will they not bleed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakfast Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 Succinctly put there... My favourite thing in my old band was to play the last note of our most climactic guitar solo a semitone flat. It was the perfect Les Dawson moment. It slightly did shoot the song, but it was reliably hilarious in soundcheck or rehearsal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 MAKE yourself indispensible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 [quote name='ARGH' post='42255' date='Aug 7 2007, 12:06 AM']MAKE yourself indispensible[/quote] ..... by dispensing with the others first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freuds_Cat Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 (edited) Unfortunately guitarists dont have the monopoly on egomanic arrogance. On the unfortunate ocasions when you come across them I have to agree with ARGH. Experience tells me that a gentle reminder that its supposed to be a team effort can sometimes work a treat. Once worked with a young very talented guitarist who figured "his" rythym section didnt know how to listen to him" (end quote) and left and setup another band of the same ilk. After the other guys got fed up with his attitude issue and booted him out he politely asked to return to an amazingly in touch band with his adjusted attitude. Seemed the lesson was all that was needed and he is now a respected player. Edited August 7, 2007 by Freuds_Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 [quote name='ARGH' post='42255' date='Aug 7 2007, 12:06 AM']MAKE yourself indispensible[/quote] i find writing all your bands songs helps enormously in that respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I had just the opposite... I quit the last band I was in (first time I've ever walked out of one in a decade's playing) due to the other three repeatedly turning up late for practice by more than an hour each time and saying that they were tired and hungry when they'd been off all day and I'd come straight from a nightshift, not having slept for 24+ hours or eaten for 12. It only takes a month of that before you leave... Plus, they'd sacked the second guitarist, who, by my reckoning was the most melodically capable and technically able player I've encountered to date. He was such a nice guy, too. They handled it very badly, and persisted in kicking him out in spite of my protests. I left 3 months ago. They keep 'phoning / mailing my wife to try to get her to persuade me to do recording work and the occasional live gig for them... Strangely, the other guitarist has also refused to help them. Let the A-holes stick together (irrespective of what instrument they play). They can form their own little club and leave the rest of us to get on with the [i]music[/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 [quote name='EdwardHimself' post='42321' date='Aug 7 2007, 09:22 AM']i find writing all your bands songs helps enormously in that respect.[/quote] Exactly. Do stuff that no-one around you can do. Write better parts. I find the biggest frustration,came up in a recent audition,I was playing along with the band,and just simply asked "What do you want?"....And then got a blank answer,"er.....dunno...kinda Cliff Burton". Obviously the ONLY bassist of note they had heard of. I HATE it when bands use guitarists that 'own' a Bass,if you know what I mean,the drummer had never been in a ryth section as a unit...and it showed. I swear its a dying art,Ive never been a guitarist....EVER,always played Bass. SO why do bands accept crappy standards. Its like we have,or rather our instrument has become an afterthought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 [quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='42326' date='Aug 7 2007, 09:30 AM']I had just the opposite... I quit the last band I was in (first time I've ever walked out of one in a decade's playing) due to the other three repeatedly turning up late for practice by more than an hour each time and saying that they were tired and hungry when they'd been off all day and I'd come straight from a nightshift, not having slept for 24+ hours or eaten for 12. It only takes a month of that before you leave... Plus, they'd sacked the second guitarist, who, by my reckoning was the most melodically capable and technically able player I've encountered to date. He was such a nice guy, too. They handled it very badly, and persisted in kicking him out in spite of my protests. I left 3 months ago. They keep 'phoning / mailing my wife to try to get her to persuade me to do recording work and the occasional live gig for them... Strangely, the other guitarist has also refused to help them. Let the A-holes stick together (irrespective of what instrument they play). They can form their own little club and leave the rest of us to get on with the [i]music[/i][/quote] Thats the jealousy bug....the "hes better than me I dont like him" germ. I have not seen that for a long time,I guess it will come back as music gets back into a more technical fashion (REALLY early 90s was the last plague of that) its quite childish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkysimon Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 [quote name='ARGH' post='42335' date='Aug 7 2007, 09:38 AM']Thats the jealousy bug....the "hes better than me I dont like him" germ. I have not seen that for a long time,I guess it will come back as music gets back into a more technical fashion (REALLY early 90s was the last plague of that) its quite childish.[/quote] We always joke in one of the bands I play in that our bassist is better than the rest of us put together! I always feel like sacking myself for being sh*t, but hey, it's the thing that makes me practice harder, to try and be less rubbish. Apart from drums. I'm happy to be sh*t on drums: I just like hitting things with sticks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krysbass Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I suspect that if we took a poll, we’d find that most of us took up bass having played another instrument previously. I’m not saying this is a bad thing, especially since some of the most iconic bassists were originally guitarists or drummers etc, but I think the bass is still misguidedly perceived by some people as some sort of cop-out. Sure, you can often get away with playing really simple lines on a bass (depending on your chosen genre of music), but on the other hand the breadth of techniques a bassist has to master to become truly accomplished on the instrument must be at least as, and maybe more, challenging than guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypsymoth Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 technique? instrument? there's the problem - most guitarists (maybe most people) view the bass as a boom boom thump thump device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywalker Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I just like hitting things with sticks. [/quote] Including the guitarist no mdoubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 [quote name='skywalker' post='42525' date='Aug 7 2007, 04:25 PM']Including the guitarist no mdoubt.[/quote] it is tempting when your playing the drums and he makes some derrogatory statement about you/basses/bassists actually... Whenever he does that actually, all i have to do is remind him that my bass is heavier than his guitar and longer so it will have more force, should i decide to whack him over the head with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 It's just the way of the musical world, the misguided many believing that it's some kind of competitive event. Even if you can quantify someone's abilities it takes a much deeper understanding than most have to really make an accurate judgement. For instance I'm in a band with three musicians I hugely respect and none of them come out with this kind of rubbish - yet the saxophonist and guitarist still believed the "Ringo isn't even the best drummer in The Beatles" quip, when he's actually a fantastic drummer with great taste and incredibly good time, on a par with the very best session drummers. But does the layman realise that? No. Why? Because he isn't all crash, bang, wallop, big fills, fast and crazy, like Keith Moon (another great drummer though!) Unfortunately that flash that so easily impresses is usually the wrong way to play the bass. Just try persuading anyone of the brilliance of Bob Moore... Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrGonzo Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 No instrument is any harder or easier to master technically. They all have their own unique ways of playing them that require completely different techiniques to get right. The thing that a lot of people don't get, and what I think Alex is referring to, is that your technical ability comes a long way second to your feel and understanding of the music that you're playing, no matter what instrument you're playing. Oviously the more technically competent you are, the more "amazing" your playing is, but to create amazing music you need to feel the music you're playing, and do exactly what is neccessary. Point in case - The Pixies. Technically cack, very little going on from anyone, the music is awesome and incredibly powerful. Compare them to your average pub metal band. All flash and technical wizardry, normally absolute crap to listen to. (Incidently, that's not to denograte any metal band players. If you put a lot of thought into what the songs are doing and where they're going, as well as having some speed chops and a good vibe in the band, metal can be totally brilliant - its just there are a lot of metal bands that spend more time showing off than playing songs.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Personally I'm a fan of "basses should be heard, and not seen" if the drummers and guitarists live and die by the inverse of that comment then fine I have no problem with it. Could Guitarists sound anywhere near as good without us providing foundation and power to their twiddly iddly iddly bits? proabably, but they wouldnt enjoy it and they'd soon get bored ! Could drummers sound so good without us adding a tuned voice to their rythym? Probably but agian it would sound flat ! Even kinds of music in which we dont play (ie 'drum an bass' dance/hip hop) has a foundation on which the tone would and could, be generated by us....... And what other instrument is a welcome in pretty much any genre of music as is ours? I only play bass, only want to play bass, and frankly am quite happy with any label stuck to me as long as it includes the word bass! Is that dense or niaive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazm Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Now print out this thread on thick A2 card, roll it up and tw*t the git with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 [quote name='The Burpster' post='42589' date='Aug 7 2007, 07:12 PM']I only play bass, only want to play bass, and frankly am quite happy with any label stuck to me as long as it includes the word bass! Is that dense or niaive?[/quote] Its not an Albatross,if you dont feel its weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 [quote name='DrGonzo' post='42586' date='Aug 7 2007, 07:04 PM']The thing that a lot of people don't get, and what I think Alex is referring to, is that your technical ability comes a long way second to your feel and understanding of the music that you're playing, no matter what instrument you're playing.[/quote] Yes, that's part of it. But the most important parts of technique and those which are often overlooked are matters like dynamic and tonal control and of course all aspects of timing. I see plenty of new players with amazing fancy technique that can slap at a million miles an hour but how in tune are they to their tone, volume and position in the pocket? Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiOfBass Posted August 7, 2007 Author Share Posted August 7, 2007 lmao- im going to have to carry out gazm's suggestion- its pure gold. im already indespensable enough i think- i got the place to practice, and all the gear in there, plus theres no replacements available replacements that could do it . ahh pride - not arrogance purely cos theres about 5 bassists in my school/college and none of them could do it yeh - i do prefer the bass parts especially motorhead/iron maiden/black sabbath ect just better for me you cant help but get into it - and the entire thing is empty without the bassline and every other part. im not wanting a more centre spot - the bassness goodness of a band is all i want from it, just hate being stereotyped as an inferior part ...but at least im prettier than my guitarist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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