P basses were meant to be 4 string

[Al Krow]

34 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Looking on Sadowsky’s website it seems he doesn't go for the reverse P theory, and that says a lot. 

Now there's a chap who's managed to Roger it up, 'bless 'im! Seems to be getting his W'ick completely confused with his Metro.

[AndyTravis]

Just now, Al Krow said:

Now there's a chap who's managed to Roger it up, 'bless 'im! Seems to be getting his W'ick completely confused with his Metro.

Yeah, he’s really ballsed up making basses.

😆

[dave_bass5]

1 minute ago, AndyTravis said:

Yeah, he’s really ballsed up making basses.

😆

Thats what happens when you skip woodworking classes at school 😂

Edited January 11, 2021 by dave_bass5

[AndyTravis]

3 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Thats what happens when you skip woodworking classes at school 😂

What a dummy. He’ll never make a name for himself.

[krispn]

Opinions are great but...

[Al Krow]

On 22/12/2019 at 10:27, pete.young said:

BBNE2 copes with it no problem.

For sure, it's a marvellous bass - in fact one of the very best! Not a PJ though.

[Al Krow]

On 23/12/2019 at 21:09, TJ Spicer said:

I agree wholeheartedly. Never found a P pickup that works on the low B solo'd with the definition I need and expect. Ed Friedland says the same in one of his YT reviews, traditional P orientation and a 34 inch scale is too undefined. Even my Sadowsky PJ5 I need some bridge pickup to be happy, and normally thats 45% bridge...

On 24/12/2019 at 07:54, HazBeen said:

This. On all 34” scale basses with a P pickup in standard position you get a little mud. The issue is significantly less on 35” scale, and a little less when you invert the P pickup...

More seriously - looking back over the thread, it does seem like the point of view expressed by Andruca is one shared by some seriously competent bass players (so I wouldn't be quite so quick to be so dismissive @CameronJ) and, amusingly, one of them happens to have a Sadowsky PJ5 and hasn't merely looked at their website. Defo worth keeping an open mind to other folks' experiences - won't always be relevant but could be a little hidden gem in there from time to time.

Just sayin' 😉

 

[CameronJ]

17 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

More seriously - looking back over the thread, it does seem like the point of view expressed by Andruca is one shared by some seriously competent bass players (so I wouldn't be quite so quick to be so dismissive @CameronJ) and, amusingly, one of them happens to have a Sadowsky PJ5 and hasn't merely looked at their website. Defo worth keeping an open mind to other folks' experiences - won't always be relevant but could be a little hidden gem in there from time to time.

Just sayin' 😉

 

You’ll notice in both of the posts you’ve quoted, scale length is mentioned as a significant factor. You’ll also, I’m sure, have noticed that was one of the first factors I listed in my post. Both quotes list other factors as having an impact on the issue, which I am wholeheartedly in agreement with.

I shall remain quick to dismiss the argument that a P pickup in traditional layout is “useless 90% of the time” on a low B. 

That statement may be one player’s experience with their own personal basses, amps and other gear - but it is absolutely not a universal truth.

 

[Al Krow]

Couldn't agree more - it is just experiences shared in common by several BC'ers, some of whom are really outstanding bass players.

Just to go back to my OP, when I switched from P to J pup mid set for a song with a lot of low B work with exactly the same EQ settings, our drummer, who has a really excellent ear, did a double take and said "whatever you just did - keep doing!" He could hear me cutting through the mix with that one change. The P and J pups were set up just fine for the rest of the set on songs with less focus on the low end.

As I hope I've made clear, plenty of folk won't have experienced this issue on their set ups. It's just a little 'gem' that may come in useful to some of our fellow musos along the way.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Al Krow

[dave_bass5]

10 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

Just to go back to my OP, when I switched from P to J pup mid set for a song with a lot of low B work with exactly the same EQ settings, our drummer, who has a really excellent ear, did a double take and said "whatever you just did - keep doing!" He could hear me cutting through the mix with that one change. The P and J pups were set up just fine for the rest of the set on songs with less focus on the low end.

 

A jazz pup near the bridge is going to cut through more, thats all you heard IMO. Sound’s like your drummer doesnt like the P tone and express that opinion.

I assume you were using your small BF cab, which is hardly going to produce a bright sound anyway, so i can imagine those low notes were not coming through as clear as with a larger, more open cab. If anything I’d say that cab was the culprit. You shouldn’t have to go from a P to a jazz tone just to cut through, not with a 1025 (not that I own one). Why not play a Jazz and be done with it lol. 

Have to agree with CameronJ, its personal preference/style/rig etc and not a given. 

[dave_bass5]

We’re probably discussing two different things here though. You seem to be talking  about P vs J in your last post, which is not going to be the same as using a reverse P pup, as you will still get the inherent P tone with only a minor difference in the low string. 

[Al Krow]

Ah so a Barefaced Super Compact (with a DG M900 head) is the real culprit here? 

Good, glad we've got that sorted now then 😂 

Yup, I am indeed talking about P vs J on the low B as the main theme of this thread. But obviously anything with "B" in it is going to be controversial on BC... 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Al Krow

[dave_bass5]

5 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Ah so a Barefaced Super Compact (with a DG M900 head) is the real culprit here? 

Good, glad we've got that sorted now then 😂 

Yup, I am indeed talking about P vs J on the low B as the main theme of this thread. But obviously anything with "B" in it is going to be controversial on BC... 

From what i heard at yours with the SC, compared to the mesa and CN212 or F112, yeah, that cab is most definitely not helping. Just as well its gone lol. 

[Cuzzie]

Have to agree with @dave_bass5 and@CameronJ overall, and cabs defo have to be balanced to their heads, one setting will not fix all.

Switching to a pick up closer to the bridge will of course make a difference as would playing closer to the bridge compared to the neck. From the example given like has been said it could be someone’s preferred sound, or the balance with all other instruments wasn’t quite right from the start, but that doesn’t therefore make a rule of thumb.

The normal vs reverse split coil will produce a slightly different sound, but again that depends on placement-what if the reverse split was located further forward from the ‘sweet spot’, therefore placing it exactly where it would normally be? There would be no difference there.

I don’t think anyone is saying there will not be some difference, it’s more sweeping broad statements that are not quite so.

[OliverBlackman]

On 23/12/2019 at 22:40, ped said:

Just use your Smith. 

Don’t say that. @Al Krow needs to realise it is a useless part of his collection that he must sell 😜

Surprised no ones mentioned about band setup and the frequencies they are taking up. If you want to cut through you need to find the space in the noise. Whether that be a P pickup, Jazz pickup, tweaks to active EQ, playing up the higher register or down low. For example if you have keys playing low, that likely to occupy the same space you’re in. 
 

Each environment/ situation can demand different setups, isn’t that why active EQ was put on the bass/ amps in the first place?

[Cuzzie]

20 minutes ago, OliverBlackman said:

Don’t say that. @Al Krow needs to realise it is a useless part of his collection that he must sell 😜

Surprised no ones mentioned about band setup and the frequencies they are taking up. If you want to cut through you need to find the space in the noise. Whether that be a P pickup, Jazz pickup, tweaks to active EQ, playing up the higher register or down low. For example if you have keys playing low, that likely to occupy the same space you’re in. 
 

Each environment/ situation can demand different setups, isn’t that why active EQ was put on the bass/ amps in the first place?

We have all been saying that for ages!

[Al Krow]

EQ is obviously a key part of any set up and finding sonic "space" as you say, Oli. 

No keys in our band, although @dave_bass5has turned with gusto to the dark side recently...

However, I think this particular issue has a lot to do with pup placement and the additional harmonic richness that is found closer to the bridge, which is where the J pup on my PJ is to be found. 

The low B string (B, C, D Eb) fundamentals are not in an EQ range that you typically associate with wanting to boost for cutting through - that is more usually the mid range. So we are then back to the harmonics. 

Just my tuppence worth. 

[AndyTravis]

I have never once worried this much about anything. 
 

Here’s how I run the scenario in my head (taking into account: room dynamics, band set up, amp, strings, pickup position, signal chain, bass construction, player, fingers or pick...all other possible variables...) 

For this - please imagine an internalised conversation with oneself...

“does this sound good?”

’yes...’ 

“Very good - carry on...”

OR

”Something doesn’t sound quite right”

’what are you going to do?’

”change a couple of settings until it sounds better”

’very good’

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by AndyTravis

[Al Krow]

Andy that's a very wise approach. 

I suspect folk mostly comment on topics for interest /or for a bit of fun. I totally agree there is no need to worry about pretty much ANY bass related topic, unless you're a pro bass player who is rightly worried about when gigs will start up again! 

[OliverBlackman]

1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:

We have all been saying that for ages!

That Al Krow needs to sell his Smith or that it’s all to do with the environment you’re playing in?

Maybe be I’ve misread because I read 4 pages of debate over pickups 😂

[stewblack]

I think @AndyTravis has summed up my approach exactly.

Except I seldom have the pleasure of making these decisions, it's usually a singer telling me turn up or down. 

Back when I played bigger stages the sound engineer made the decisions for me. All I got to decide was what I had in my monitor, usually kick drum and vocals. 

 

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

The low B string (B, C, D Eb) fundamentals are not in an EQ range that you typically associate with wanting to boost for cutting through - that is more usually the mid range. So we are then back to the harmonics. 

Just my tuppence worth. 

I’ve found in the past with P basses that I’ve had  to cut a bit higher up to reveal the lower notes. Boosting them will probably make things worse if your using a small cab. That when it gets really muddy. Might be worth giving that a go. You will never get the neck pup as clear as the bridge, but you can certainly get it sounding clearer. 
You’d probably need to do this with the band playing though. 
Even over here in the Darkside EQ is very important.😀

Edited January 12, 2021 by dave_bass5

[Cuzzie]

2 hours ago, OliverBlackman said:

That Al Krow needs to sell his Smith or that it’s all to do with the environment you’re playing in?

Maybe be I’ve misread because I read 4 pages of debate over pickups 😂

Haha - EQ etc - I’ll let you chaps fight over Ken Smith’s 

@dave_bass5 no arguments there, I’ve used the big brother of the SC with a DG head and it’s eminently achievable