Jool's Hootenanny constructive criticism thread

[Geek99]

I gave up on JH shows a couple of years ago when Fast Forward became my button of choice when watching it back 

[Geek99]

I thought - I watched one act out of five or so, do I really have nothing better to do with my time ?

[DoubleOhStephan]

1 hour ago, spectoremg said:

You can't polish a turd. 

Nope, you have to roll it in glitter 

Edit... Posted before reading the full thread. Joke already been told! 😳😁

Edited January 2, 2020 by DoubleOhStephan

[skankdelvar]

3 hours ago, spectoremg said:

You can't polish a turd. 

... but you can put it in a block of resin and turn it into an attractive conversation piece.

[Ricky 4000]

5 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

... but you can put it in a block of resin and turn it into an attractive conversation piece.

Like they did to Hans Solo! The rebel turd... 👎

[skankdelvar]

Just now, Ricky 4000 said:

Like they did to Hans Solo! The rebel turd... 👎

Exactly so.

Likewise, a smaller, likewise resin-ated excretion would make for a lovely fridge magnet.

[Ricky 4000]

1 minute ago, skankdelvar said:

Exactly so.

Likewise, a smaller, likewise resin-ated excretion would make for a lovely fridge magnet.

Oh yes, how about a set of 'XR leadership resin turd fridge magnets'... *searches on Amazon*

[mikel]

6 hours ago, spectoremg said:

You can't polish a turd. 

Dont need to. Its a music show so that will do. If I made one with all the stuff I like lots of people would complain about the content. And quite right, cos you cant please everyone so please yourself.

[DoubleOhStephan]

7 minutes ago, mikel said:

Dont need to. Its a music show so that will do. If I made one with all the stuff I like lots of people would complain about the content. And quite right, cos you cant please everyone so please yourself.

Totally understand where you're coming from and of course, you're absolutely correct, it's impossible to please a wide ranging audience. 

But... There were too many acts on the show were of a poor quality. Past it singers who could barely sing in tune (Melanie), the 3 screeching ladies, the band with the female singer who looked down to the floor when singing and stepped back and forth when not.

That isn't not pleasing a wide ranging audience or pleasing oneself, it's fosters poor booking by the production team who don't seem to have a clue how to save this dying duck. 

I honestly don't think it's OK to just excuse such poor content because it's a music show so "that will do". This is the BBC's prime program for New Year. It's just not good enough and will only get worse if apathy is the overriding emotion from the audience. What's the motivation for the production team to do any better?

Let's be honest, if the people in the crowd can barely be arsed to look like they're enjoying it unless the camera happens on them, what do the producers think the viewing public at home are doing? 

And that's without bringing up the painful "interviews" with drunk "celebs" who have nothing to say except to promote whatever "project" they have coming up in the coming year. 

[mikel]

16 minutes ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

Totally understand where you're coming from and of course, you're absolutely correct, it's impossible to please a wide ranging audience. 

But... There were too many acts on the show were of a poor quality. Past it singers who could barely sing in tune (Melanie), the 3 screeching ladies, the band with the female singer who looked down to the floor when singing and stepped back and forth when not.

That isn't not pleasing a wide ranging audience or pleasing oneself, it's fosters poor booking by the production team who don't seem to have a clue how to save this dying duck. 

I honestly don't think it's OK to just excuse such poor content because it's a music show so "that will do". This is the BBC's prime program for New Year. It's just not good enough and will only get worse if apathy is the overriding emotion from the audience. What's the motivation for the production team to do any better?

Let's be honest, if the people in the crowd can barely be arsed to look like they're enjoying it unless the camera happens on them, what do the producers think the viewing public at home are doing? 

And that's without bringing up the painful "interviews" with drunk "celebs" who have nothing to say except to promote whatever "project" they have coming up in the coming year. 

Well. It covered a wide range of music, from Stormzy through Stereophonics to Melanie and beyond. You could argue about the quality of the performance, but that is simply personal point of view. If enough people didn't watch it, it would soon go.

[drTStingray]

26 minutes ago, mikel said:

Well. It covered a wide range of music, from Stormzy through Stereophonics to Melanie and beyond. You could argue about the quality of the performance, but that is simply personal point of view. If enough people didn't watch it, it would soon go.

@mikel you're absolutely right - I thought it was all very cheerful and pleasant. You really have to remember that the average demographic on this forum is well over 55, and many moan about absolutely anything (that is except mediocre basses) - the vast majority appear to want to return to the 60s, that era of basses 'sitting in the mix' (a euphemism for being inaudible).

Notable that most of the basses on the Hootenanny were not of the make beginning with an F and were extremely audible. 

Ive noticed that coffee table(ish) basses always have this quality be  they in the Fatback Band, Dave Swift or even Hosier - Interesting, that! 🤔

[DoubleOhStephan]

6 minutes ago, mikel said:

Well. It covered a wide range of music, from Stormzy through Stereophonics to Melanie and beyond. 

It was a wide range of music, I agree.

33 minutes ago, mikel said:

You could argue about the quality of the performance, but that is simply personal point of view.

Everything is a personal point of view 🤷🏻‍♂️

41 minutes ago, mikel said:

If enough people didn't watch it, it would soon go.

Hope not, I just want to see it improve. 

[DoubleOhStephan]

24 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

You really have to remember that the average demographic on this forum is well over 55, and many moan about absolutely anything (that is except mediocre basses) - the vast majority appear to want to return to the 60s, that era of basses 'sitting in the mix' (a euphemism for being inaudible).

Ahh classic ageism, the last of the socially acceptable isms. 

[drTStingray]

55 minutes ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

Ahh classic ageism, the last of the socially acceptable isms. 

Ageism is actually illegal. I'm actually older than that but would identify my taste for live music as broader than demonstrated by most in this thread. 

Perhaps I was clutching at straws as there must be some logical reason for such negativism about live music - I just find it surprising to encounter amongst musicians....perhaps people don't like R and B  😧

Edited January 2, 2020 by drTStingray

[mikel]

1 hour ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

It was a wide range of music, I agree.

Everything is a personal point of view 🤷🏻‍♂️

Hope not, I just want to see it improve. 

Ok. How. Its supposed to be constructive criticism.

[DoubleOhStephan]

14 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

Ageism is actually illegal.

Aye, tis why I said socially acceptable 😉

14 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

I'm actually older than that but would identify my taste for live music as broader than demonstrated by most in this thread. 

Tbh, I've not seen much in the way of disliking the styles of music, but my own complaint was regarding the quality of the acts. In particular, the poor vocal performances from a number of the singers. 

16 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

Perhaps I was clutching at straws as there must be some logical reason for such negativism about live music - I just find it surprising to encounter amongst musicians....perhaps people don't like R and B  😧

It depends what people are criticising.

The most common points raised seem to be aimed at production values, which isn't a surprise coming from a bunch of musicians who appreciate that sort of detail, and poor performances by specific artists.

I can't help feel that's inevitable as musicians are more attuned to hear mistakes or bum notes, just like any specialist will see details most laypeople don't. Eg, a racing driver will spot the wrong racing line, a designer will notice poor alignment or layout etc. 

[DoubleOhStephan]

19 minutes ago, mikel said:

Ok. How. Its supposed to be constructive criticism.

Well, a good start would be don't book singers who can't sing anymore. 

After that...

It's supposed to be a party show (NYE is the biggest party of the year after all), so maybe, just for one show, don't try to be all cool and edgy and instead get fun, funky party bands. 

Let the bands play a number of songs on the bounce (like a mini set), give them the opportunity to build up a head of steam and get the crowd really going. The constant switching from genre to genre crashes the flow, even the world's shittest DJ wouldn't plan a set list like that. Plan the night like a DJ set list, bulld the crowd up throughout the night, create a proper party in the studio, it will translate to the viewers at home. 

Stop the table hopping interviews, it just doesn't work. Maybe have a co-host setup in a corner of the studio, interviewing one guest at a time, prehaps with some prepared, interesting questions. 

Stop pretending its NYE. Everyone knows its prerecorded. Imho it harms the integrity of the show as well as the atmosphere in the studio. TV is fake enough as it is, adding another layer of blatent falsity does nothing except expect everyone to buy into a lie, which no-one does and, I feel, is a big reason why the show feels so forced. 

[oldslapper]

Did anyone here write/email/Twit/farcebook the BBC  to voice their displeasure/disappointment/discomfort regarding the show? 
Seems the most productive thing to do. If you pay for a product you’re not happy with, complain to the source, rather than arguing about it elsewhere.

I’m starting a new thread titled

 “All hootenanny threads are the same”

Edited January 2, 2020 by oldslapper

[spectoremg]

3 hours ago, mikel said:

Dont need to. Its a music show so that will do. If I made one with all the stuff I like lots of people would complain about the content. And quite right, cos you cant please everyone so please yourself.

What's it like inside your head?

[spectoremg]

1 hour ago, drTStingray said:

Ageism is actually illegal. I'm actually older than that but would identify my taste for live music as broader than demonstrated by most in this thread. 

Perhaps I was clutching at straws as there must be some logical reason for such negativism about live music - I just find it surprising to encounter amongst musicians....perhaps people don't like R and B  😧

You can't polish a turd. 

[spectoremg]

Jools Holland's contract must be carved into granite and form the top layer of the DG's desk. I can think of no other reason why this is still on the telly. 

[skankdelvar]

Jools' Hootenanny has been going since 1992. That's 27 years and the show just keeps getting longer. He must have a picture somewhere of a BBC Director General engaging in energetic congress with a donkey.

But let's be positive, oh, yes.

48 minutes ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

Well, a good start would be

That's a fine list of suggestions. To which I would add:

* Instead of having competing music output on two BBC channels, why not shift it all onto one channel and have a pre-recorded (and more carefully curated) 1 hour Hootenanny without all the chat up till midnight.

From midnight  you'd start The Live Gig and run it to maybe half one. That way we'd be spared that embarrassing hiatus where the live act has to stop the music at 23:55, leave the stage, traipse up a flight of stairs banging fists with the peasants and go out onto a balcony in the cold night air (bad for the pipes), there merely to swap platitudes with some bug-eyed, drooling BBC presenter until the bongs go bong then have to scamper back to the stage and start all over again.

* And make the main midnight gig a freaking huge act rather than those who are (NOI) on the comeback trail

* And someone change that Auld Lang Syne cover for another one. It's getting tedious. Or play Miss Vera Lynn's We'll Meet Again and anyway nobody in the crowd will notice because it's 95% Chinese tourists taking selfies.

* On the (now) spare channel they could run out Where Eagles Dare or 633 Squadron which would entertain the (apparently) geriatric grousers on BC and everybody would be happy apart from those who like sitting through 125 minutes of dross and watching Rowland Rivron soil himself on camera.

Edited January 2, 2020 by skankdelvar

[stingrayPete1977]

The Beeb could just show any of the previous year's hootenannys on BBC2 to save money towards Skanks ubernanny on BBC1, other than mikel no one would notice anyway!

[mikel]

10 hours ago, spectoremg said:

What's it like inside your head?

Pardon?

[drTStingray]

12 hours ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

Aye, tis why I said socially acceptable 😉

Tbh, I've not seen much in the way of disliking the styles of music, but my own complaint was regarding the quality of the acts. In particular, the poor vocal performances from a number of the singers. 

It depends what people are criticising.

The most common points raised seem to be aimed at production values, which isn't a surprise coming from a bunch of musicians who appreciate that sort of detail, and poor performances by specific artists.

I can't help feel that's inevitable as musicians are more attuned to hear mistakes or bum notes, just like any specialist will see details most laypeople don't. Eg, a racing driver will spot the wrong racing line, a designer will notice poor alignment or layout etc. 

It's rarely very useful arguing about taste so I'm not going to bother. 

However apart from Melanie (who was clearly struggling and helped by an exceptional band), the artists all performed well, Jools and his orchestra were excellent and the sound was excellent - in fact it was all very positive, which is what you want for a New Year's Eve show. As I have said a couple of times in this thread, the bass was very audible in a TV mix without the need to put it through some hifi arrangement. None of the drum sounds were mixed so loud they sounded like their own orchestra accompanied by everything else (as so much music is these days). 

So for bass players, I don't see what's not to like, unless your musical taste only runs to punk or heavy rock, for instance, of which there was none. 

So I don't see the point of all the moaning - if you didn't like it move on. But for goodness sake, this forum is full of threads full of negativity, usually from the same bunch of people - be it Rickenbacker basses, Jools or whatever. 

Im afraid that trying to express the moaning in a more academic way doesn't cut it for me - it just becomes an argument about taste 😬 clearly mine is a bit broader than many in this forum and I'm willing to accept compromise more willingly - I must say that if I hadn't, I wouldn't have played half of the live music I have over the years.