High Action sounds so much better

[fleabag]

I've always gone for lowest action i can get away with.  I dont measure, rather just keep lowering till the i hear the first fret buzz when fretting, and therein is my string height.  The occasional fret buzz has been amended by some truss rod action, but if that doesnt work, then the string height is adjustment is done.

High action makes me make mistakes, so i never use it, and also i'm not a digger in,  so i dont twang the strings, which i suppose ya cant do with a low action.

Famously, Percy Jones was quoted as favouring a high action on his fretless basses

[Guest]

String height is mainly about neck profile so it entirely depends on the condition and seating of the frets, the neck profile and whether the neck has any high or low bumps, slight twists etc. Nut height and profile are also crucial for an easy to play bass in the first few frets. A very well-setup instrument will play the same with a lower string height than a poorly or uneven set up instrument, and will feel more consistent bottom to top. It really isn’t about measuring the height of the strings in one location. Unless you’re bass neck is carbon fibre or a very stable laminate it’ll need tweaks over the course of the year (humidity and temperature changes). For a long time I underestimated the importance of fret levelling and overall setup - the difference really is like night and day.

[Painy]

I like my action extremely low (on my main p-bass, a. 88mm pick doesn't fall out from under the G string at the 12th fret). As much as I like the way the low action feels, I actually set it that low specifically for the tone (along with fresh steel Dunlop Superbrights) - bright, zingy, aggressive and gritty. I find it brings out that zing nicely but plucking too heavily can choke the note if you're not careful so you do have to be quite controlled with it. 

That said, my p-bass with flats is set with a much higher action (about 2.5mm ish though so still not too high) as I'm obviously aiming for a very different sound with that one. Too low and its all clicky clacky (and not necessarily in a nice Steve Harris kind of way either if the flats are well worn in).

 

[CliveT]

My P bass with rounds measures in at 3 mm.  It would be slightly lower but the frets were levelled a few years ago.  My fretless J with flats is about 2.75 mm.  Both were measured at the 12th fret.  I would consider this a medium action.  

[Bigguy2017]

My starting point is when a 10p piece in the 12th fret just touches the strings.

A bit lower on the Stingray, where I did a nice fret level and polish...

 

[wateroftyne]

On 01/01/2020 at 19:46, FDC484950 said:

Unless you’re bass neck is carbon fibre or a very stable laminate it’ll need tweaks over the course of the year (humidity and temperature changes). 

I never touch mine 😄

[chris_b]

21 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

I never touch mine 😄

This.

When I buy a bass I take it to The Bass Gallery for a set up and to have the frets levelled. I've never "tweaked" a truss rod on any bass I've owned.

[Guest]

Just because you don’t/can’t be bothered to adjust the truss rod, doesn’t mean it doesn’t need adjustment. Manufacturers supply an adjustable truss rod for a reason. IMHO every player should know how to set up an instrument - and that is nut height and slot profile, truss rod, action and intonation. Why pay someone else to do this - it’s not exactly difficult, is it? Fret levelling is a bit more work but doesn’t need doing that often unless you are grinding the hell out of the frets. 
pVery stable wood moves less, but all wood moves over time and especially with changes in humidity/temperature. Even changing strings can do this (different gauge putting less/more tension on the neck). 

[wateroftyne]

Just now, FDC484950 said:

Just because you don’t/can’t be bothered to adjust the truss rod, doesn’t mean it doesn’t need adjustment. Manufacturers supply an adjustable truss rod for a reason. IMHO every player should know how to set up an instrument - and that is nut height and slot profile, truss rod, action and intonation. Why pay someone else to do this - it’s not exactly difficult, is it? Fret levelling is a bit more work but doesn’t need doing that often unless you are grinding the hell out of the frets. 
pVery stable wood moves less, but all wood moves over time and especially with changes in humidity/temperature. Even changing strings can do this (different gauge putting less/more tension on the neck). 

Dunno if you're talking to me or not, but none of mine seem to shift enough to warrant a tweak. I can - and do - if I need to, but it's a very rare occurrence. Usually just after I've bought them.

[chris_b]

12 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

Just because you don’t/can’t be bothered to adjust the truss rod, doesn’t mean it doesn’t need adjustment.

I guess you were talking to me?

If the truss rod was a problem I'd fix it or have it fixed. The fact that I don't find I need to adjust my bass depending on the season is the reason for my reply.

[jacko]

24 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

 IMHO every player should know how to set up an instrument - and that is nut height and slot profile, truss rod, action and intonation. Why pay someone else to do this - it’s not exactly difficult, is it? 

This...

[Stub Mandrel]

A brief bit of thought will make it clear that if the strings don't actually buzz on the frets, the height of the action won't affect the sound directly, just your playing.

I'm all for low action as it suits my style and I don't find it stops me 'digging in'. If I want to use a plectrum (Ace of Spades), then I want to get some fret rattle as well!

Anyway you are all wimps, Carol Kaye went for 1/4" above the fretboard at the 12th fret; she could probably strangle someone just with her fretting hand alone...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

I guess you were talking to me?

If the truss rod was a problem I'd fix it or have it fixed. The fact that I don't find I need to adjust my bass depending on the season is the reason for my reply.

No not to anyone in general. Of course if the neck doesn’t move there’s no need to tweak it. It’s just an observation that it’s there for a reason. Over the last 25 years or so I’ve rarely come across a bass that never needed a tweak. Sometimes it’s subtle and only needs a quarter turn but it can make all the difference. YMMV as always.

[Bassfinger]

But quite often close enough is close enough.  The pursuit of adtion perfection in a set up is often ephemeral, and not worth the aggro.  In fact this is true of everything, from food through to women.

[markdavid]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

A brief bit of thought will make it clear that if the strings don't actually buzz on the frets, the height of the action won't affect the sound directly, just your playing.

I'm going to respectfully disagree, of course there are hundreds of possible variables involved so it is quite possible that you do not hear a difference and ime things that shouldn't make any difference often do

[NickA]

On a fretless the string height changes the sound, less action = more mwah needs tweaking to personal tastes

Cranking the strings up on a fretted bass doesn't seem to change the sound at all.  My dolphin pro 1 arrived with an action so low it was spooky so now cranked UP to 1.5mm, to no Ill effect and the advantage I don't play notes accidentally.  Too low an action on my 5-string means I clank the strings on the frets, especially when reaching across 4 strings to reach the B.  Poor technique on my part, but it sounds no worse for having to be higher.

[invertigo]

So I figure this might be the best thread to ask in - I can setup my action reasonably low and get no buzz, until I go past the 14th or so fret when buzz starts to happen, all strings are the same in this. So is this a case of tightening the truss rod a bit and raising the saddles? Or is it most likely just a high fret at the upper end?

For perspective I have it set now to about 2mm E and 1.8mm G, any lower and I get buzz past 14th

Edited January 30, 2020 by invertigo

[nilebodgers]

7 minutes ago, invertigo said:

So I figure this might be the best thread to ask in - I can setup my action reasonably low and get no buzz, until I go past the 14th or so fret when buzz starts to happen, all strings are the same in this. So is this a case of tightening the truss rod a bit and raising the saddles? Or is it most likely just a high fret at the upper end?

For perspective I have it set now to about 2mm E and 1.8mm G, any lower and I get buzz past 14th

If all strings do it, then it is probably one or more slightly high frets. However 2mm/1.8mm is a good action unless you have a light touch, so I'd be inclined to stop there if that plays comfortably and sounds good.

I can't really play with a sub-2mm action myself even on a bass with perfectly level frets, I'm just too heavy-handed and the fret rattle/buzz gets too much.

[burno70]

I'm with Fleabag on this: I use the lowest action I can possibly get away with. It's easier to play that way - for me at least. I have no idea whether a bass sounds better with high action as high action feels crappy to me and I'll have a new bass set up low as it goes as soon as I get it.

[Stub Mandrel]

18 hours ago, FDC484950 said:

No not to anyone in general. Of course if the neck doesn’t move there’s no need to tweak it. It’s just an observation that it’s there for a reason. Over the last 25 years or so I’ve rarely come across a bass that never needed a tweak. Sometimes it’s subtle and only needs a quarter turn but it can make all the difference. YMMV as always.

I'm a bit worried about my Squier J-bass.

I got it, after a few weeks, it needed truss rod adjustment, and ran out, so I added a washer rather than risk stripping the thread. Since then it's needed two  fairly generous tweaks. Not sure if this is it settling in after taking all the tension off or something worse like the rod slowly crushing into soft wood at one end 😞

Be a shame if it does end up running out of adjustment as its a lovely neck.

17 hours ago, markdavid said:

I'm going to respectfully disagree, of course there are hundreds of possible variables involved so it is quite possible that you do not hear a difference and ime things that shouldn't make any difference often do

String at one end on a bridge saddle, the other supported at the high point of a curved fret. If nothing else contacts the string what can affect it's vibration. Trignometry tells us differences in tension change with action will be (almost) negligible, as are any minute differences in break angle.

But I'm aware that every one of my basses feels different and I therefore play each one slightly differently, I argue this is where perceived changes in sound with action come from - higher action tends to encourage a more aggressive style and more staccato playing by damping with the left hand.

Obviously when strings start contacting other frets, that does make changes beyond just buzz, like introducing more harmonics if played hard.

Another variable could be if you fret very lightly/close to the fret so the string doesn't contact the fingerboard behind the fret (especially with jumbo frets, light action). I imagine this could reduce sustain and harmonic content.

Would be interesting for someone with a spectrum analyser to do an experiment.

[Reggaebass]

14 minutes ago, burno70 said:

I'll have a new bass set up low as it goes as soon as I get it.

Same here, I set mine really low, I had a custom shop jazz once that neither I or a tech could get below 2mm at the 12th without buzz , I sold it straight away 

[hooky_lowdown]

8 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

I had a custom shop jazz once that neither I or a tech could get below 2mm at the 12th without buzz , I sold it straight away 

It may be the strings at fault, not the bass.

I like to get my action as low as possible, but as I try different strings, I always have to adjust. If I use high tension strings (i.e fender flats) I can get super low, then if I switch to some rounds I have to sometimes double the height of the saddles.

While trialing different strings I've found certain strings (brand's) sound better on certain basses (brand's). No idea why, but it seems to be trial and error.

[Guest]

Neck construction a bit of a dark art at times. Good instruments made with a stable, probably dried neck tend to require a lot less adjustment - hence WOT’s assertion that little if any tweaks are required. Then again some bass necks move around and can be straight one day and like a banana the next. IMHO this is due to the source wood not having a consistent moisture content, not being dried evenly and correctly (there’s a reason why many custom builders have rooms full of wood several years old in various stages of drying), and can also be poor quality or poorly cut so that warps/twists can develop - which was the original reason for laminated necks, to counteract one piece of wood’s desire to move in a particular direction. Even Fender have placed carbon fibre rods in the neck to assist with neck stability (although the true effect on both stability and tone are uncertain). I like to get the best setup I can - if the fret are all levelled and the neck is correctly adjusted then setup becomes very straightforward. Personally I don’t dig in much but also prefer a medium action as I find that it feels better - too low and has others have said, you have to be really careful to to fret accidentally.

Edited January 30, 2020 by FDC484950

[deepbass5]

As low as I can get it and to follow fingerboard radius etc.          after i'm happy the neck relief is right of course.

I will do my own set up as and when required, maybe after having to switch string makes etc.

I do believe that contrary to some posts. That tone is best when the action is as low as possible so the tension of the strings are compressing the neck, end to end and not trying to bend the neck into a bow that will occur as the gap increases.

all our playing stiles will require some compromises i grant you

 

[CamdenRob]

I’ve never managed to get a really low action on any of my basses. I can’t seem to get it below a certain level without getting loads of horrible fret clank in my sound... I’m certainly not a string tickler, but I’ve not got an excessively heavy handed technique either 🤔 

Maybe I just need someone to show me how to do it properly... I never get buzz when I set it really low. I just get the sound of the strings hitting the fret. The envelope of every note starts with a metallic tap which sounds awful. I have to have the action set high enough to eliminate that. Do people really manage to get a super low action without that? Or does everyone else just play ridiculously gently or not mind the fret clank?

Reading everyone else’s posts, I reckon if most of you guys tried my basses you’d find them unplayable 😕