Converting a Cello vto a bass.

[Jan Goldstein]

Hi Everyone.   I just got myself a cello that I plan to use as a bass of sorts.  D'addario sells a set of strings for this purpose, but at $150 they're a little pricey.  So I'm wondering if anyone else has experimented with a Cello and a fourths tuning solution?    Op4en to ideas here.  Peace!

 

[Woodwind]

I've played with a couple of people who did it.

The cello scale length is a good bit shorter than a bass guitar so if you want to tune in 4ths to E, A D G you may not like the response or feel.

 

Have you tried it in 5ths?

Learning an instrument in 5ths will help your bass playing as you break up habits of just letting your hand fall into a pattern and really think about the notes you're playing.

 

Of the people I knew who did tune to 4ths the one who had the best tone kept the Low C as a starting point, so then F, Bb, Eb.

You could easily tune your G down to F, and then you'll only need a new higher tension D and A strings to tune down.

This will save you a fair few quid.

 

whatever you do you'll have a lot of fun.

Remember only change one string at a time to prevent the soundpost from falling over inside.

 

[SpondonBassed]

Welcome Jan.  That sounds like fun.

[Owen]

I used to play 'cello before graduating to the king of all instruments. Moving from 4ths to 5ths makes my head wobbly inside.  I cannot deny that I am fascinated. I presume you have clocked the video on youtube? If not (and for anyone else) here it is. They seem to be an octave up. I am now looking at these and wondering if I should have kept my 'cello. Having said that, I have enjoyed the bass guitars I have bought and sold over the years using the money from the 'cello. I hope you will keep us fully informed. Welcome aboard Jan.

 

[Owen]

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/daddario-helicore-medium-tension-cello-strings-tuned-in-fourths.1339921/

These might still be there?

[Jan Goldstein]

Thanks for the welcome and responses, guys.  Really thoughtful points.   I suspect I will probably break down and spring for those D'addario conversion strings.  I took a second look at the video you shared, Owen.  That's a pretty big sound..   Woodwind, I know you are right about learning to play in fifths is good for person.    

[Jan Goldstein]

[Jan Goldstein]

I got my D'addario conversion strings delivered and put them on the cello today.  So far... i like it!

 

[Marc S]

Watching this with interest.
When I think about this topic lately, this band "The Dead South" comes to mind.

Actually, I haven't worked out the notes to this song yet....
So apologies for not spotting how the players Cello is tuned

But it's a great video, which I'd recommend.
Any comments from the sharp eyed among you who can see how it's tuned are welcome

 

[ambient]

What a fascinating thing to do. I toyed with the idea of a half-size double bass briefly last year; there’s a thread on here somewhere that I started. Lack of time prevented me from following through with it.

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by ambient

[Marc S]

2 hours ago, ambient said:

What a fascinating thing to do. I toyed with the idea of a half-size double bass briefly last year; there’s a thread on here somewhere that I started. Lack of time prevented me from following through with it.

 

I had a very brief play on a half size DB a few months back. Actually, I found it wasn't that small by comparison to a 3/4 upright.
A Cello, converted to be a bass, would be quite markedly smaller and more portable than a half-size, I think

Just wondering how much more tension there would be in the strings, if tuned like a bass, and what long term that effect might have
I recall a Cello Bass for sale on here, and it had some sagging in the front of the bass - due to the tension of strings and I think, other modifications, like the bridge....

[Owen]

3 hours ago, Marc S said:

I had a very brief play on a half size DB a few months back. Actually, I found it wasn't that small by comparison to a 3/4 upright.
A Cello, converted to be a bass, would be quite markedly smaller and more portable than a half-size, I think

Just wondering how much more tension there would be in the strings, if tuned like a bass, and what long term that effect might have
I recall a Cello Bass for sale on here, and it had some sagging in the front of the bass - due to the tension of strings and I think, other modifications, like the bridge....

These strings are an octave up from the notes we know and love on a DB/Bass guitar so it is bass fingering but not bottom bass frequencies. I cannot imagine a proper string company would put out strings that would be of the wrong tesnion  so I would guess it is ok.

Edited January 8, 2020 by owen

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, owen said:

These strings are an octave up so it is bass fingering but not bottom bass frequencies. I cannot imagine a proper string company would put out strings that would be of the wrong tesnion  so I would guess it is ok.

That means the bottom E would be two tones ABOVE a standard cello's low C, the A one tone above the G, the D being the same on both and the G being a tone below the A.

These are pretty small differences, I would have imagined the tension difference would be no greater than between some different types/gauges of standard strings?

[malbass]

2 hours ago, owen said:

These strings are an octave up from the notes we know and love on a DB/Bass guitar so it is bass fingering but not bottom bass frequencies. I cannot imagine a proper string company would put out strings that would be of the wrong tesnion  so I would guess it is ok.

Wouldn’t that mean the conversion would be to a guitar and not a bass? Sounds like a bass in the video above?

[Beedster]

6 hours ago, Marc S said:

Watching this with interest.
When I think about this topic lately, this band "The Dead South" comes to mind.

Actually, I haven't worked out the notes to this song yet....
So apologies for not spotting how the players Cello is tuned

But it's a great video, which I'd recommend.
Any comments from the sharp eyed among you who can see how it's tuned are welcome

 

Love it

[Beedster]

3 minutes ago, malbass said:

Wouldn’t that mean the conversion would be to a guitar and not a bass? Sounds like a bass in the video above?

Sounds like a fretless classical guitar to me

[malbass]

2 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Sounds like a fretless classical guitar to me

Yep, having listened a bit closer, you’re right 🙂. Works well with that banjo though!

[Marc S]

28 minutes ago, malbass said:

Yep, having listened a bit closer, you’re right 🙂. Works well with that banjo though!

I was thinking, for a bit more "bottom end oomph" - perhaps use an octaver type pedal, one of the models which gives you an octave below? 

Might help get a deeper sound

[Beedster]

25 minutes ago, Marc S said:

I was thinking, for a bit more "bottom end oomph" - perhaps use an octaver type pedal, one of the models which gives you an octave below? 

Might help get a deeper sound

I think you're overthinking it Marc, that's what a double bass is for 

But seriously, the cello strung and played as is sits in a rather nice acoustic and stylistic niche in that track. The thought of that being replaced by the horrible synthetic tones and artefacts of an octaver makes me shudder, even if it would track the more complex signal coming from whatever mic or PUP that cellist is using in the first place. 

[Jan Goldstein]

Having been playing with my cello-bass for a week now...  I Like It!   It's true, i am an octave above where I usually live, but it sure does have a nice sound to it.  What I really wanted was a chance to learn to use a bow on an instrument I am familiar with without give up all the real estate a DB demands.   I think this is going to be really fun to bring along when we play acoustic shows.

[Beer of the Bass]

It's quite an old fashioned website, but Dennis Havlena had an article about converting low-end cellos using electric bass flatwound strings.

http://dennishavlena.com/cellobas.htm

[Owen]

20 minutes ago, Beer of the Bass said:

It's quite an old fashioned website, but Dennis Havlena had an article about converting low-end cellos using electric bass flatwound strings.

http://dennishavlena.com/cellobas.htm

Proper old school page. And his main page is full of some crazy stuff (in a good way).

[SpondonBassed]

1 hour ago, Beer of the Bass said:

It's quite an old fashioned website, but Dennis Havlena had an article about converting low-end cellos using electric bass flatwound strings.

http://dennishavlena.com/cellobas.htm

 

46 minutes ago, owen said:

Proper old school page. And his main page is full of some crazy stuff (in a good way).

It is and all!

[DaveFry]

Solo at 42:40      DB or 'cello ?

[DaveFry]

Harry Babasin tuned his cello to fourths for the 1947 recording .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Babasin

 

Details of the tracks on the album best found on a customer review on Amazon ! 

https://www.amazon.com/Dodos-Bounce-Dodo-Marmarosa/product-reviews/B002A3NEEY/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_show_all_btm?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews