Playing in Church.

[bass_dinger]

2 minutes ago, Richard R said:

 

Interesting responses from the different bands. 

Ah yes . . .  So, we previously had lots of people playing and singing, with each "seat" being rotated.  Each week would have a different combination of musicians - see Luke FRC's comment below, for the range of abilities!

However, since we returned to the church, we no longer have a mix of musicians.  Instead, the band members are largely fixed.   So, we no longer have different bands, but one core group.  That's sad for those who are excluded, but the move seems to have been accepted, in the main. 

On 03/01/2020 at 07:44, LukeFRC said:

. . . . a joyful but atonal mess of not-very-good-musicians. You could find out the drummer one week has a PHD in jazz drumming and the next week is a 14 year old who started learning 6 months ago. Be prepared for a massive variety of musical skills, and more importantly listening skills. 

 

[Owen]

19 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

"I know, but I've never heard this song before, and going though the verse changes you want me to play more than once before playing it infront of 300 people would be nice!" 
 

Lightweight. Practice is cheating. 

[Richard R]

300 people allowed in church. Ah, those were the days!

 

[bass_dinger]

13 minutes ago, Richard R said:

300 people allowed in church. Ah, those were the days!

 

But now, with Facebook and YouTube broadcasts, 300 looks small!  Somehow, my own church services reach 1,000 views in the month following the service, from a live congregation of 250. 

You are right - a venue full of real people singing, is better than the current set up (100 people in masks, forbidden to sing).

 

[Dad3353]

31 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

...100 people in masks, forbidden to sing...

Are you sure that's not the KKK.? 

...

 

[Baxlin]

We are back to playing live again, smaller band, and the drummer using a drum box rather than the kit, although in a few weeks we are moving back to our bigger venue, so we may use an electronic kit.

Last week’s band was keys, bass and drum, plus one vocalist.

But a question - the service is live streamed on YouTube, but unless the wick is turned up very high, the bass doesn’t come through, even though it’s fine in the venue through the stage setup.  (I have listened through the TV sound box, and my bass amp).  Has anyone else found this?

I finally got the sound man to dip into the YouTube stream while it was going out, which persuaded him that the bass players weren’t just wanting their few minutes of fame!

[Richard R]

YT will apply all sorts of compression and eq.

If your license allows then livestream a reference track that you can compare to the original, both on typical laptop/TV speakers and the church PA. If needs be you might need a separate feed or mix to the stream with different eq.

[Kevsy71]

1 hour ago, Baxlin said:

But a question - the service is live streamed on YouTube, but unless the wick is turned up very high, the bass doesn’t come through, even though it’s fine in the venue through the stage setup.  (I have listened through the TV sound box, and my bass amp).  Has anyone else found this?

Stage setup is (something like) bass->DI->desk mic preamp->mixer->foldback/IEMs. Assuming a digital mixer then it is likely to have a decent DAC, and the mixer may be sending you a bass-heavy monitor mix which differs from the front of house mix (and/or you may have your bass amp as an additional monitor). So that contributes to a fine venue sound.

As @Richard R says above, YouTube compresses heavily and audio degrades with reduced video quality. Also the DAC and headphone amp of the average computer are pretty basic which further affects the audio. Unfortunately most parishioners won't have a Focusrite or similar DAW with a decent set of cans :(

Certainly worth checking with the sound team and seeing what they can do with EQ to help you in the mix :)

On another note, had my first recorded session (four songs) at church last night - look forward to hearing the results. Due to some last minute key changes I was delving lower on the 5-string than normal and that typically does not come through well on the livestream. And having practiced all the songs in faster/upbeat mode they were performed as slow/quiet...still, good to challenge the timings and note feel. And when asked to sit out for the first two verses I simply play them but with the tuner mute on to keep in the game!

[Pappabass]

Keyboard player can be your friend or enemy. I played keys at a church for 5 years. 1/4 of the time without a bass player. When we had a bass, I was very easy on my left hand. To answer your question, (from experience, I had the wonderful opportunity to play bass for 5 different churches over many years. ) it is very good experience. Spiritually and musically. I played a 5 string because D, E, & F are popular keys. dont overplay. Now for the bad, you will see or experience church politics, feelings, and attitudes. 

[bass_dinger]

 

1 hour ago, Pappabass said:

I played a 5 string because D, E, & F are popular keys. dont overplay. 

At my church, A, G, D and C are the Keys of Worship  - often the same song, tried in each key until the singers are comfortable.

However, there are never any flat keys, oddly.   

 

As for Don't Overplay, spot on.  Recordings and videos of professional arrangements are often very sparsely arranged.   

  

[LukeFRC]

33 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

Recordings and videos of professional arrangements are often very sparsely arranged. 

Some of that I wonder is deliberate - Imagine whatever the next greatest worship song is, and then they get thundercat  to play bass or equivalent... Thirty people in a school drama studio are going to struggle to play that - keep it to C, G, D and maybe a Em if you want and it makes it accessible 

[Richard R]

I was irrationally excited to play Em in a song last March 😁

[Kevsy71]

'Overplay' in Worship bass can mean 'more than one note per bar' or even 'any note per verse'! Just have to enjoy the song and from a technique perspective, think of it as good timing and sustain practice.

[LukeFRC]

18 minutes ago, Kevsy71 said:

'Overplay' in Worship bass can mean 'more than one note per bar' or even 'any note per verse'! Just have to enjoy the song and from a technique perspective, think of it as good timing and sustain practice.

I was once accused of both overplaying and having too much bass in the amp when I had the volume off! 

[LeftyP]

On 21/10/2020 at 18:42, Baxlin said:

We are back to playing live again, smaller band, and the drummer using a drum box rather than the kit, although in a few weeks we are moving back to our bigger venue, so we may use an electronic kit.

Last week’s band was keys, bass and drum, plus one vocalist.

But a question - the service is live streamed on YouTube, but unless the wick is turned up very high, the bass doesn’t come through, even though it’s fine in the venue through the stage setup.  (I have listened through the TV sound box, and my bass amp).  Has anyone else found this?

I finally got the sound man to dip into the YouTube stream while it was going out, which persuaded him that the bass players weren’t just wanting their few minutes of fame!

We are still playing in isolation and recording our individual parts onto our smart phones so that someone can piece them together for the YouTube Sunday broadcast.  Our desk top computer has Bose speakers which really bring out the bass.  In fact, when watching stuff on YouTube, I have to ride the volume as music always comes over much louder than dialogue.  However, I listened to one of our church band songs via a lap top and could hardly hear the bass at all - and I was listening for it!  I suspect that many of our viewers use either lap tops, tablets or 'phones and don't even notice me!

[xgsjx]

I’ve recorded a few sessions with my church since lockdown.

Usually we record 3 sets of 4 songs (1 set per week) & as there’s quite a few musicians it means I won’t be on YouTube every week. 

For the last lot, I had a quick squiz at the songs, saw that they all followed a mix of 1, 4, 5, & 6 and didn’t really do much to differentiate from each other, so I gave them 1 run through the night before & that was it. 

Why is the majority of white worship music so uninspiring?

There’s musicians in our church who have been playing for years & only know the basics because they only listen to CCW. Had CCW taken some pointers from gospel, then they’d likely know a good deal more. 

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, xgsjx said:

There’s musicians in our church who have been playing for years & only know the basics because they only listen to CCW. Had CCW taken some pointers from gospel, then they’d likely know a good deal more. 

If you want to know what CCM will sound like in 3-5 years time listen to whatever Coldplay are doing now

[oldslapper]

If all the delay pedals in the world stopped working one day, CCM would implode. 😂

[Richard R]

3 hours ago, xgsjx said:

Why is the majority of white worship music so uninspiring?

There's an M.Phil thesis in that.

[Kevsy71]

I'd absolutely love to do gospel sets - for one thing I'd have a stone-cold excuse to get a Ken Smith 5 again! I suspect gospel players are never told 'sit this out until the chorus, and don't go North of the 5th fret'

[bass_dinger]

21 hours ago, Richard R said:

I was irrationally excited to play Em in a song last March 😁

So excited that you still remember it! 

[bass_dinger]

8 hours ago, xgsjx said:

Why is the majority of white worship music so uninspiring?

There’s musicians in our church who have been playing for years & only know the basics because they only listen to CCW. Had CCW taken some pointers from gospel, then they’d likely know a good deal more. 

Because the majority of white worship musicians are so uninspiring . . . 

I decided long ago that, in order to improve my musicianship, I needed to listen to and play material outside of CCW - so, less Christian Contemporary Worship, and more Credence Clearwater Wevival.  Less CCW and more CCS.

 Adam Neely has something to say on the subject - 

 

 

   

[Pappabass]

8 hours ago, xgsjx said:

 

There’s musicians in our church who have been playing for years & only know the basics because they only listen to CCW. Had CCW taken some pointers from gospel, then they’d likely know a good deal more. 

Yes on this. I was guilty of this. We had to down-play some of our songs because of inexperienced guitar player. I no longer play in church. I play in a small dive along with a acoustic guitar player/singer, playing a mix of oldies. I can say I am better now than when I played in church. I  do miss the worship experiences, but dont miss church drama and politics 

[xgsjx]

3 hours ago, Pappabass said:

Yes on this. I was guilty of this. We had to down-play some of our songs because of inexperienced guitar player. I no longer play in church. I play in a small dive along with a acoustic guitar player/singer, playing a mix of oldies. I can say I am better now than when I played in church. I  do miss the worship experiences, but dont miss church drama and politics 

Amen to that. 
Worship team politics & restrictions can put many good players off.

I took my Seaboard along a few times last year to add some synth bass.  In not so many words, I was asked not to keep bringing it, so I don’t.

I don’t listen to much of the stuff played in our church outside of church (mostly Hillsong & Bethel stuff).

I do like Elevation’s Paradoxology album though, but again, it could have been better. 
 

[LeftyP]

On 23/10/2020 at 08:57, xgsjx said:

 

Why is the majority of white worship music so uninspiring?

There’s musicians in our church who have been playing for years & only know the basics because they only listen to CCW. Had CCW taken some pointers from gospel, then they’d likely know a good deal more. 

I find much of the contemporary Christian music bland and predictable but the songs produced by Sovereign Grace and EMU fill the bill very well.  To me, black Gospel is very wearing and over-the-top.  The same line, or even word, yelled over and over just leaves me cold.  Of course, a lot depends on the culture of the church members, some of whom may not feel confident in their singing.

We should also remember that, in church, we are there to enable the congregation to worship.  We are not "putting on a show" or backing professional singers.  I would argue that providing a subtle foundation for a song is more important than showing off your latest licks and takes just as much skill as filling every bar with as many notes as possible.  Don Moen has a good video on YouTube about 'overplaying' on worship songs.

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by LeftyP